oatnet
1 MW
oooohhh... just came across this thread, beautiful job, I want one of those V2 units!
-JD
-JD
High power RC motor and drive unit production
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
recumpence
1 GW
Oat,
Only a few of the second run are spoken for. Would you like one?
Matt
Only a few of the second run are spoken for. Would you like one?
Matt
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
Posting this here rather than D's thread because it might be a relatively simple generic solution.
Another way to accomplish the same thing that might be easier, if they will fit, would be to make the two plates that have holes bored to the same diameter as the outer wall of the bottom bracket tubing. They would fit where the flange is on Jason's bike (pictured below). Use bolts pulling them together to hold them on the BB. Depending on their location those bolts could provide the rotation bracing.
recumpence said:
Posting this here rather than D's thread because it might be a relatively simple generic solution.
Another way to accomplish the same thing that might be easier, if they will fit, would be to make the two plates that have holes bored to the same diameter as the outer wall of the bottom bracket tubing. They would fit where the flange is on Jason's bike (pictured below). Use bolts pulling them together to hold them on the BB. Depending on their location those bolts could provide the rotation bracing.
recumpence
1 GW
Run #2 is finished. I have 13 drives unspoken for. We are also nearly done prototyping the mount clamps. If those test well, they will go into production once Dave's CNC is free again (roughly a month).
Oh, for the new run of drives, I decided to make a bunch of motor plates premachined for the Astro motor. So, new drive orders (using the Astro motor) should ship much quicker because I do not have to hand machine the motor mount plate for those orders.
Man, I am getting hammered right now. I have some huge projects in the works for clients right now. I cannot say what they are. But, I can tell you there are some freakin WILD stuff being built buy various people right now. :wink:
Matt
Oh, for the new run of drives, I decided to make a bunch of motor plates premachined for the Astro motor. So, new drive orders (using the Astro motor) should ship much quicker because I do not have to hand machine the motor mount plate for those orders.
Man, I am getting hammered right now. I have some huge projects in the works for clients right now. I cannot say what they are. But, I can tell you there are some freakin WILD stuff being built buy various people right now. :wink:
Matt
HAL9000v2.0
10 kW
Matt, where can I found the pictures of dual stage drive... I scroll down 10 pages and nothing...I saw it before ...but where???
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9342
HAL9000v2.0
10 kW
ofcourse...
recumpence
1 GW
Cool. That is a doable distance if you can recharge at work.
Is this an e-bike you rode?
Man, you gotta come by and see this PK Ripper. It is freakin, blown streetrod CRAZY!!
Matt
Is this an e-bike you rode?
Man, you gotta come by and see this PK Ripper. It is freakin, blown streetrod CRAZY!!
Matt
That's on my 'bent. Powered exclusively by 43 year old fat guy blubber.
Still working on whether I can afford your gadget. Some more things need to shake out first, but I'm hopeful. If I go with it, it'll be with the Astro motor or maybe something similar. That one your friend is designing comes to mind. If I can't do it right, then I won't do it.
Funny thing is, the only place I really need help is on the hill leading up to my house. It's the last stretch of the day, and it's a killer. There's one other hill that is a pain, but not nearly as bad.
I bring the bike into the office, and there is a power outlet where I lean it against the wall.
Still working on whether I can afford your gadget. Some more things need to shake out first, but I'm hopeful. If I go with it, it'll be with the Astro motor or maybe something similar. That one your friend is designing comes to mind. If I can't do it right, then I won't do it.
Funny thing is, the only place I really need help is on the hill leading up to my house. It's the last stretch of the day, and it's a killer. There's one other hill that is a pain, but not nearly as bad.
I bring the bike into the office, and there is a power outlet where I lean it against the wall.
Hey guys, I am fairly new to e-bikes, but enjoyed reading this entire thread...took a couple of days, but very informative and some really high quality stuff. Anyway, I would say that I am fairly mechanically inclined, but not so sharp with electrical "magic". I have plans to build a fairly high powered downhill e-bike in the near future, but want to make sure I entirely understand the electrical side of things.
I was searching for info on brushless motors and found a speed controller that seems impressive to me, however I might be missing something. I am also intrigued by the pletty predator motor, but not sure what to use to control it. Any ideas or thoughts?
Here is a link to the controller:
http://www.rc-monster.com/brushlesscontrollers.php
Or the Jeti Spin 200
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/spin_200_amp_opto_brushless_speed_control_3072_prd1.htm
-Ryan
I was searching for info on brushless motors and found a speed controller that seems impressive to me, however I might be missing something. I am also intrigued by the pletty predator motor, but not sure what to use to control it. Any ideas or thoughts?
Here is a link to the controller:
http://www.rc-monster.com/brushlesscontrollers.php
Or the Jeti Spin 200
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/spin_200_amp_opto_brushless_speed_control_3072_prd1.htm
-Ryan
recumpence
1 GW
Welcome! Glad to have you here.
The problem with the Predator is the lack of an output shaft. It is a direct prop mount motor. So, that is not good for our use.
That ESC is a MGM. They are good controllers. I have one in a custom monster truck myself. However, it is only good to 35 volts. I believe MGM is working on a 60 volt controller. But, I believe it is limitted to 120 amps. So, we are back to the HV110 in that case.
If money is not an object, the Terminator is awesome! But admittedly, the Astro is almost as good and much cheaper.
I hope that helps!
Matt
The problem with the Predator is the lack of an output shaft. It is a direct prop mount motor. So, that is not good for our use.
That ESC is a MGM. They are good controllers. I have one in a custom monster truck myself. However, it is only good to 35 volts. I believe MGM is working on a 60 volt controller. But, I believe it is limitted to 120 amps. So, we are back to the HV110 in that case.
If money is not an object, the Terminator is awesome! But admittedly, the Astro is almost as good and much cheaper.
I hope that helps!
Matt
Hi, I know this information is probably posted somewhere, but I was unable to find it. I have a couple of questions regarding these brushless motors.
1. What is the advantage/disadvantage of going with higher voltages and how does that effect the performance?
2. What are the things to consider with the ratings of batteries? (Is there a break down for determining how a certain motor will perform, and how long the batteries will last under a certain load). If I was using the Terminator motor in a similar manner that Matt has them set up, what should I expect to use for batteries? (How many? Series/Parallel? What does a 2C or 3C etc. mean?) I would like to be able to hold around 30-35mph for 25miles or so.
Any information you can provide would be very helpful, and any extra input you have above and beyond my questions is appreciated.
Thanks,
-Ryan
1. What is the advantage/disadvantage of going with higher voltages and how does that effect the performance?
2. What are the things to consider with the ratings of batteries? (Is there a break down for determining how a certain motor will perform, and how long the batteries will last under a certain load). If I was using the Terminator motor in a similar manner that Matt has them set up, what should I expect to use for batteries? (How many? Series/Parallel? What does a 2C or 3C etc. mean?) I would like to be able to hold around 30-35mph for 25miles or so.
Any information you can provide would be very helpful, and any extra input you have above and beyond my questions is appreciated.
Thanks,
-Ryan
recumpence
1 GW
I forgot to answer you about the Spin200 ESC. That controller works well for E-bikes, except for the throttle response. It is choppy to say the least and not very tractable. So, the bike becomes hard to ride.
Higher voltage means less amperage to get the same power (volts times amps equals watts). So, the higher the voltage, the lower the amperage you will need to pull. Reducing amperage is always a good thing.
The C rating of a battery is how many times the hourly amperage the battery can discharge. For example, a 10 amp hour battery can put out 10 amps for one hour. If that battery is rated at 10C, it can discharge a maximum of 100 amps (10 amp hour times 10). If it is a 5C battery, is can discharge 50 amps. Higher C rated batteries tend to cost more, though. But, they are also more efficient because their internal resistance is lower.
Matt
Higher voltage means less amperage to get the same power (volts times amps equals watts). So, the higher the voltage, the lower the amperage you will need to pull. Reducing amperage is always a good thing.
The C rating of a battery is how many times the hourly amperage the battery can discharge. For example, a 10 amp hour battery can put out 10 amps for one hour. If that battery is rated at 10C, it can discharge a maximum of 100 amps (10 amp hour times 10). If it is a 5C battery, is can discharge 50 amps. Higher C rated batteries tend to cost more, though. But, they are also more efficient because their internal resistance is lower.
Matt
rizzlo34 said:
1. Power in electrical terms is V (volts) * I (current). Volts is I*R (resistance). So power is I*I*R. In order to get the same power at low voltage, you have to increase amperage. Wires don't care about voltage (the insulation does, but not the conductor) but it cares a lot about current. So going lower voltage means you have to go heavier on wires and anything else that cares about current. Higher voltage is almost automatically more efficient than lower voltage.
In practical terms with regards to batteries, the voltage of a setup determines how fast it will go, and the current capacity determines how long you can drive it.
2. There is a lot of information out there, you need to understand it before you build.
Battery terms: Each cell has an amp-hour (Ah) rating. A fully charged 4 Ah cell can deliver 4 amps for 1 hour before being completely drained. This same cell can also be called a 4000 mAh (milliamp hour) cell, since there are 1000 mA in an amp.
The term C is a charge rate. For lithium polymer cells (LiPo) you charge at 1C. C = the mAh or Ah rating without the hours part. So the cell in the previous paragraph has a C rating of 4A or 4000 mA. The general rule is that a LiPo cell can be charged at 1C and no faster. In other words, it takes at least an hour to charge a LiPo. There are some LiPo cells that can be charged faster, but they will specifically say they have a charge rate of 2C or whatever.
The time you see 2C or 3C most is in discharge rate. If the battery I used as an example were a 4C battery, you could run it for 15 minutes at 16A without hurting it. BUT....
Over-discharging almost any modern battery is bad news. Both exceeding the C rating and going to a lower charge level than the chemistry can tolerate leads to permanent damage to the cells. You never want to completely discharge a cell. The only possible exception I know to this is A123 cells, in which case I just have no experience with them. LiPo, LiFePO4, Lead-acid, etc. all have minimum charge levels. This is called Depth of Discharge (DoD) and you need to pay attention to that too.
Most scooters use LiFePO4 or A123. Remote control planes and cars use LiPo, which has the highest energy density of all but can catch fire or explode if damaged or improperly charged or discharged. I'm talking, burn your house down type of catch fire. Go to YouTube and search on LiPo fire.
Here are a couple places on other forums I've found for motor, battery and charging info:
Aimed at electric cars, but generally some pretty good info:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669&redir_from=668
LiPo battery info:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187
This is a group about electric motor design and construction. Ostensibly about RC aircraft, but the most knowledgeable members welcome any question up to and including questions about the generators in hydroelectric dams. http://www.rcgroups.com/electric-motor-design-and-construction-361/
Generally there are a few forums on the rcgroups site that are extremely good information. Many times if you're off topic and acknowledge that, you will get recommendations for where to look. The guys who have houses and families can generally point to other forums where guys have houses and families.
oatnet
1 MW
recumpence said:
Hi Matt!
Sorry for the delay in responding - I've been away on business and this is the first chance I have had to hit E:S with a proper browser in weeks. I am definitely interested, your work is beautiful. I've done dozens of ebikes but this is my first non-hub-motor build so I am still sorting out an implementation, and whether to use 1 stage or 2 stage to drive a 26" wheel etc.
I'd like to use a spare Tidalforce IO Cruiser frame, identical to the one pictured below. When I was away I had a vision of fitting it in the green box behind the seatpost downtube, but now think that space is gonna be too small. Now I am thinking about removing the kickstand and putting it in the green box underneath the crank, bolted to the the kickstand mount and clamped to the tube in front of the crank.
I am all about stealth, so I am thinking of using a freewheel crank and driving it through the chain, does that make sense? For stealth, I'd like to have a smaller sprocket on the frame side, and use that to drive the motor. Can anyone suggest a freewheel crank for me?
-JD
recumpence
1 GW
Yes it could fit down there. I would say put it in the frame triangle above the bottom bracket. But, it should fit underneith.
I got my FW crank arms from Tartybikes.com. The freewheel itself can be gotten from sickbikes (if I remember correctly) for much less than directly from White Industries.
Matt
I got my FW crank arms from Tartybikes.com. The freewheel itself can be gotten from sickbikes (if I remember correctly) for much less than directly from White Industries.
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
Here is my new clamp set. This is a one-off prototype set. However, the production clamps will basically be identical. This clamp set is 1.5 inch bore. It safely clamps down to 1.375 inches without a problem. I will make these in 1.5 inch, 2 inch, and 2.5 inch. I will also stock shims to shim these down to odd sizes. The shims are merely aluminum tube cut to half-moon shape. So, my clamps will fit everything from 2.5 inch diameter tubes all teh way down to 1.125 tube.
The clamps will cost $78 for the set with bolts.
Now, here is the issue I am having. I need to make 3 sizes of these. So, three separate fixtures need to be made, and the CNC needs to be set up for each size and each size is, then, a separate production run. So, I need to order about $1,200 or so of these clamps to make production worth while. Also, the HAAS is taken for the next 5 weeks.
So, I would love to take some orders now pending production to offset the innitial cost as well as the prototyping and fixturing cost. If no preorders are taken, I would at least like to know how many people would like a set so I can get an idea of how many orders I can expect.
Matt
The clamps will cost $78 for the set with bolts.
Now, here is the issue I am having. I need to make 3 sizes of these. So, three separate fixtures need to be made, and the CNC needs to be set up for each size and each size is, then, a separate production run. So, I need to order about $1,200 or so of these clamps to make production worth while. Also, the HAAS is taken for the next 5 weeks.
So, I would love to take some orders now pending production to offset the innitial cost as well as the prototyping and fixturing cost. If no preorders are taken, I would at least like to know how many people would like a set so I can get an idea of how many orders I can expect.
Matt
Attachments
Matt,
An update on my situation.
I think I have to delay getting the drive for a bit. I was hoping to avoid getting some work-related gear for a while, but it looks like I'm going to have to be more responsible than I would like.
Maybe in a month or 3.
An update on my situation.
I think I have to delay getting the drive for a bit. I was hoping to avoid getting some work-related gear for a while, but it looks like I'm going to have to be more responsible than I would like.
Maybe in a month or 3.
recumpence
1 GW
I had this prototype set of clamps made but, believe it or not, I have not had one single request for them, not even one! So, I am not doing any more clamp prototyping untill I know there is an interest in them.
Bummer.
Matt
Bummer.
Matt
flyinmonkie
10 kW
Matt,
Don't get too discouraged about the clamps. I'm sure as more drives are sold people will want clamps as well. Together they are a fantastic product. It is almost a bolt on kit now for your drive system that could be put on anything. I know it doesn't help now, but if I had the $ I would order at least one set now. Unfortunately I am doing build as the $ allows, hence the length of time it is taking.
FM
Don't get too discouraged about the clamps. I'm sure as more drives are sold people will want clamps as well. Together they are a fantastic product. It is almost a bolt on kit now for your drive system that could be put on anything. I know it doesn't help now, but if I had the $ I would order at least one set now. Unfortunately I am doing build as the $ allows, hence the length of time it is taking.
FM
recumpence
1 GW
I am not discouraged. I have been manufacturing products for several years now. I know the gig. It is just weird that all I heard was clamps, clamps, clamps, untill I came up with a set (that is prettier than I ever thought they would be and cheaper than I originally said) and I could pretty much hear the crickets chirping in the background because it is suddenly so quiet.
Weird.
Anyway, no big thing. Drives are selling! The first run is sold out and I have 7 of run #2 sold that are being setup as we speak. In fact, of run #2, nearly every drive I have sold is a two stage drive! That is cool because I have alot of two stage parts in stock.
Matt
Weird.
Anyway, no big thing. Drives are selling! The first run is sold out and I have 7 of run #2 sold that are being setup as we speak. In fact, of run #2, nearly every drive I have sold is a two stage drive! That is cool because I have alot of two stage parts in stock.
Matt
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi Matt,
Beautiful design and workmanship for a very reasonable price
recumpence said:
Beautiful design and workmanship for a very reasonable price
recumpence said:
Don't worry about it, too much. The RC movement is a momentum thing and we're only at the beginning of the tidal wave. Give it some more time when people start getting their motors mounted, positive reviews are given and so on, and the orders will start climbing as more people are encouraged to go this route. There's an incentive to go R/C, but an understandable laggardness given the novelty of it to many hub-users.
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