wow !!.. wanna trade for some snow ? 
Home ownership can suck sometimes..
- Thread starter Ypedal
- Start date
def215
10 kW
Ypedal said:I already have a 200 amp entrance but it's old and the main panel is roasted with age... the current sub panel is a " Push Matic " type rig, advanced in the day but most of the house is 2 prong and no ground, some outlets have been changed in the house but no grounds connected.... i plan to have the entire thing gutted and replaced with new.. and since holes will be made all over the place, run extra wire for audio/etc.. that will be one expensive reno..
wow. push matic, thats old school. i work on that once in a blue moon. yeah, i would feel unsafe without anything grounded, but thats just me. the old knob-and-tube just seems a little out of date to me. i feel safer with MC wire and romex.
AussieJester
1 TW
Ypedal said:wow !!.. wanna trade for some snow ?
uuuuhm...let me think...we had 38c yesterday ....uuuuhm HELL NO...
KiM
enoob
1 kW
knob and tube seems a little nuts to me never mind out of date 
alot of the older houses ive had a chance to work on that have the knob and tube the insulation is gone leaving bare exposed wire running all over the house specially the attics. seems rats like the stuff and do you the immense favor of stripping it for their bedding. 
seems both ends got it this week ypedal . heres the whole 3 inches at my front yard that will probably shut down the lowermainland tommorow
alot of the older houses ive had a chance to work on that have the knob and tube the insulation is gone leaving bare exposed wire running all over the house specially the attics. seems rats like the stuff and do you the immense favor of stripping it for their bedding. seems both ends got it this week ypedal . heres the whole 3 inches at my front yard that will probably shut down the lowermainland tommorow
AussieJester
1 TW
:: shivers:: after looking at above pics...You need to get your ass down OZ enoob
KiM
KiM
deronmoped
10 kW
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 706
enoob said:
Yeah, you need constant air changes to make a house livable. Seal it off too good and you get mildew in that bathroom, mold in the closets, poor air quality...
When I built my basement, I went to a lot of work to keep the moister out and I even added ventilation that is working all year round.
People sealing up their houses too good will soon find reasons why they should have not done that.
Deron.
dogman dan
1 PW
Sometimes owning the place doesn't suck. At a rental you couldn't do this.View attachment 1
Five freebie sliding glass door panels and a freebie window, plus about $300 for some 2x4's , some siding, and a bit of insulation. Bingo, free heat all afternoon, and a little less cold ouside the wall all night reducing the load on the walls insulation. A fan in the little window, open the big one, and hot air flows in any sunny day. More of the freebie panels were put on the south wall last winter, which cut my heat bill to about $50 a month last winter. Wtih this on the west side, I should be able to use the heater about 5 days a month or less.
It's a typical Las Cruces winter day, so it's about 55-60F outside, but inside the trombe wall,View attachment Temp inside the trombe wall.jpg
This morning, when it was 27F outside, the trombe wall was still 45 inside. I haven't even insulated it, sealed the air leaks, or put buckets of water in there yet either.
Come spring, pull a few screws and the whole thing breaks down into panels to be stowed for the summer.
Five freebie sliding glass door panels and a freebie window, plus about $300 for some 2x4's , some siding, and a bit of insulation. Bingo, free heat all afternoon, and a little less cold ouside the wall all night reducing the load on the walls insulation. A fan in the little window, open the big one, and hot air flows in any sunny day. More of the freebie panels were put on the south wall last winter, which cut my heat bill to about $50 a month last winter. Wtih this on the west side, I should be able to use the heater about 5 days a month or less.
It's a typical Las Cruces winter day, so it's about 55-60F outside, but inside the trombe wall,
View attachment Temp inside the trombe wall.jpgThis morning, when it was 27F outside, the trombe wall was still 45 inside. I haven't even insulated it, sealed the air leaks, or put buckets of water in there yet either.
Come spring, pull a few screws and the whole thing breaks down into panels to be stowed for the summer.
Dogman, paint everything under that glass black! Cheaply painting that wall black, it doesnt wear out, no moving parts, and its a big boost in performance. Have you seen www.builditsolar.com? (so much more than solar info). Black absorbs infra-red energy, even on a cloudy day (ever got a cloudy day sunburn?).
Also another great "bang for your buck" project is to contact local plumbers until you find one with a used electric water heater thats in good shape. Many people upgrade to a larger heater, and also a gas-burning unit (which is often considered cheaper to run than electric), leaving the plumber to haul off the old one. Put the extra water heater in the sun under glass (painted black) and have it plumbed to be a "pre-heater" for your homes domestic hot water (DHW) heater.
It doesn't replace the stock unit, but warm water is much cheaper to heat to 110F than the 55-degree stuff that comes out of the underground city water pipe. In the summer, your hot water heater may not come on at all...
Also another great "bang for your buck" project is to contact local plumbers until you find one with a used electric water heater thats in good shape. Many people upgrade to a larger heater, and also a gas-burning unit (which is often considered cheaper to run than electric), leaving the plumber to haul off the old one. Put the extra water heater in the sun under glass (painted black) and have it plumbed to be a "pre-heater" for your homes domestic hot water (DHW) heater.
It doesn't replace the stock unit, but warm water is much cheaper to heat to 110F than the 55-degree stuff that comes out of the underground city water pipe. In the summer, your hot water heater may not come on at all...
mud2005
10 kW
Wouldn't that make the house hotter in the summer?
Also wouldn't one black wall on the outside of a house look weird?
Look weird? YES!...but a longer eave (for summer shade) or covering the glass in summer would keep that wall from getting hot.
This is a solar hot-air panel. Kind of like a removable trombe wall? You can make them in convenient sizes, from a discarded window or glass door. The black tubes are aluminum beverage cans.
This is a solar hot-air panel. Kind of like a removable trombe wall? You can make them in convenient sizes, from a discarded window or glass door. The black tubes are aluminum beverage cans.
-20 celcius out here last few days ( without wind chill factor ) tht's negative 20 celcius.. a few hours up north from here for record -30 something. And i'm very happy to report that removing that chimney made a HUGE difference ! My furnace comes on and shuts off instead of just staying on full time like before.
I bet i'm burning as many kwh as last year but i can wear a T-shirt comfortably vs last years hoodie with chills.
Love the pop-can idea !! been pondering something similar for a few years now, a guy in Newfoundland has started a business around this concept ( was on discovery channel a while ago ) .
) tht's negative 20 celcius.. a few hours up north from here for record -30 something. And i'm very happy to report that removing that chimney made a HUGE difference ! My furnace comes on and shuts off instead of just staying on full time like before. I bet i'm burning as many kwh as last year but i can wear a T-shirt comfortably vs last years hoodie with chills.
Love the pop-can idea !! been pondering something similar for a few years now, a guy in Newfoundland has started a business around this concept ( was on discovery channel a while ago ) .
enoob
1 kW
rather than black paint you may be able to use poly thats black on one side and white on the other . they use it to make greenhouses , i cant remember the name.
its a good idea . may have a spot for that here hhhhmmm
its a good idea . may have a spot for that here hhhhmmm
dogman dan
1 PW
The pop cans are a great idea. This trombe wall project is still not quite finished, and some black metal in there is definitely going to be used. I need to do the hot water tank trick, but where my tank is located makes it a bit awkward. I have cabinets and stuff in the garage and don't want to relocate them. But it's on the list. Hot water will now cost me as much as heating the house in winter. The other project on hold for now is photovoltaic grid tie. A solar district is in the works at the county govt. When it goes active in the next year or two I'll be able to finance a few kw of pv on the roof without going to a bank. It will just be a property tax increase instead and the intrerest will be at about the prime rate, not prime plus 8%. Hopefully I'll be able to get the house about 80% solar, Heat, AC, etc. Only the way the roof faces will prevent 100% solar. Mabye I'll put some pv on racks in the backyard though, it just depends on the deal from the solar district, and how rates go in the future. If we hit the break even numbers using the district financing, I'll go big on the pv. Right now, using bank financing, PV is still a bit more expensive than grid power.
On the south side of the house, last years project, more of a heat collector than a trombe wall used black painted corrugated roofing for the heat exchanger. A few 2x4's permanently screwed to the wall have two of the glass panels, with the black painted steel underneath. Behind that, two holes in the wall vent the air by convection. Closing the vents in the night keep it from becoming a convection cooler. On the south side, actually facing south-southeast, I have a big tree that shades that wall in the morning in the summer till about noon when the overhang shade hits the glass. But in winter, the sun rises in a different place, and I get heat from sunup till about 3:00 pm. So on that side, I don't need to worry about a black wall in the summer since it gets shaded. On that side of the house, there is also a 4' x8' window collecting heat and you guessed it, my winter curtains are black painted metal. I could let the sun hit the floor and heat it, but the metal causes convective air circulation to spread the heat to the room better. Also on that side, I glassed in the front porch. It doesn't produce all that much heat, but that part of the exterior wall never gets below freezing, and so the kitchen wall is always warmer and I lose little heat through that wall.
On the new project, facing west- soutwest, I also have some trees coming along to shade that wall in the summer, but they are just starting to get big enough. Till they do, I'll just remove the glass seasonally. This time it's a true trombe wall, so I will be putting a lot of buckets of water in there behind the metal. Most of the heat will be brought into the house to warm it in the afternoons when the south east side is shutting down for the day. But the water will make enough warm thermal mass to keep the trombe wall way above freezing on even the coldest nights, for here, about 15F. That way, all night that wall of the house will never be cold, and any heat lost through the wall gets trapped, at least for awhile, in the trombe wall space.
The long term plan is to take the same glass, and build collectors for a roof install. But that costs a bit more, and needs ducting, thermostatic fans, atmospheric dampers to close it when the fan shuts off, etc. So for at least this year the trombe wall is cheaper.
Of course, my heat bill is a joke to most of you in a climate where most winter days see 50F for a high, and many 60F. But this house has no gas line, and electric heat bills were a shock the first few years. Used to gas heat in the previous house, costing mabye $70 a month, the first winters bills in the new house were about $180 a month. The next few winters we heated mostly with the fireplace, burning several cords of wood, along with the work that goes with that. Finally we wised up and put more insulation in the attic. At that point, $100-125 a month heated the house, even after a 30% rate increase on the power. Last year, with the solar collectors and the porch glassed in, the bill dropped to $50-75 a month. I'm hoping to heat my house this january for less than $30, while having it 70F inside rather than 65. I still use the fireplace, but only on stormy days, and burn about a half a cord a year. The rest of the time that damper is shut as tight as possible.
The other project on the list is up insulating the walls. This one is a bear, remove sheetrock, furr out the wall thicker, insulate and re install sheetrock. We may never get the whole house done, but would like to do at least the bedrooms. Possibly this spring. I also need to put a roof on the house, we got hail last summer. That part of owning this house will definitely suck.
The big hole in my house is the dog door. A kid could drive a trike through it. Part of the new wall, where the window is, has a second dog door under the window. So now cold air, flies etc have to make it through two dog doors. At night, I close a door to seal off the dog doors but in daytime the dogs have the door open in all weather.
On the south side of the house, last years project, more of a heat collector than a trombe wall used black painted corrugated roofing for the heat exchanger. A few 2x4's permanently screwed to the wall have two of the glass panels, with the black painted steel underneath. Behind that, two holes in the wall vent the air by convection. Closing the vents in the night keep it from becoming a convection cooler. On the south side, actually facing south-southeast, I have a big tree that shades that wall in the morning in the summer till about noon when the overhang shade hits the glass. But in winter, the sun rises in a different place, and I get heat from sunup till about 3:00 pm. So on that side, I don't need to worry about a black wall in the summer since it gets shaded. On that side of the house, there is also a 4' x8' window collecting heat and you guessed it, my winter curtains are black painted metal. I could let the sun hit the floor and heat it, but the metal causes convective air circulation to spread the heat to the room better. Also on that side, I glassed in the front porch. It doesn't produce all that much heat, but that part of the exterior wall never gets below freezing, and so the kitchen wall is always warmer and I lose little heat through that wall.
On the new project, facing west- soutwest, I also have some trees coming along to shade that wall in the summer, but they are just starting to get big enough. Till they do, I'll just remove the glass seasonally. This time it's a true trombe wall, so I will be putting a lot of buckets of water in there behind the metal. Most of the heat will be brought into the house to warm it in the afternoons when the south east side is shutting down for the day. But the water will make enough warm thermal mass to keep the trombe wall way above freezing on even the coldest nights, for here, about 15F. That way, all night that wall of the house will never be cold, and any heat lost through the wall gets trapped, at least for awhile, in the trombe wall space.
The long term plan is to take the same glass, and build collectors for a roof install. But that costs a bit more, and needs ducting, thermostatic fans, atmospheric dampers to close it when the fan shuts off, etc. So for at least this year the trombe wall is cheaper.
Of course, my heat bill is a joke to most of you in a climate where most winter days see 50F for a high, and many 60F. But this house has no gas line, and electric heat bills were a shock the first few years. Used to gas heat in the previous house, costing mabye $70 a month, the first winters bills in the new house were about $180 a month.
The next few winters we heated mostly with the fireplace, burning several cords of wood, along with the work that goes with that. Finally we wised up and put more insulation in the attic. At that point, $100-125 a month heated the house, even after a 30% rate increase on the power. Last year, with the solar collectors and the porch glassed in, the bill dropped to $50-75 a month. I'm hoping to heat my house this january for less than $30, while having it 70F inside rather than 65. I still use the fireplace, but only on stormy days, and burn about a half a cord a year. The rest of the time that damper is shut as tight as possible. The other project on the list is up insulating the walls. This one is a bear, remove sheetrock, furr out the wall thicker, insulate and re install sheetrock. We may never get the whole house done, but would like to do at least the bedrooms. Possibly this spring. I also need to put a roof on the house, we got hail last summer. That part of owning this house will definitely suck.
The big hole in my house is the dog door. A kid could drive a trike through it. Part of the new wall, where the window is, has a second dog door under the window. So now cold air, flies etc have to make it through two dog doors. At night, I close a door to seal off the dog doors but in daytime the dogs have the door open in all weather.
Ha !.. my power bill last feb was over 500$ !!! :lol:
thomas
10 W
Hehe the passive houses I'm working on on the job use less than 500$ a year on heating Okay we never have -20C more like +3 to -5C in the winter and a average yearly temp of 8C.
Okay we never have -20C more like +3 to -5C in the winter and a average yearly temp of 8C.
Dogman, if you've pondered some type of heat storage, consider a hybrid masonry/water-drum mass.
There may occasionally be cold but sunny days where you've added as much Trombe wall as you physically can, and after a few hours the interior of the house gets so hot that you have to crack a window and shade some of the collectors. Later that night when your house cools off, you'll wonder if there's a cheap way to store some of that heat that you turned away.
Water drums hold 5 times the BTU's as a masonry stack (cinder-blocks?) but masonry absorbs heat faster. Circulate the hot air from the collectors into the top of an insulated containment. Have the air flow past the upper half which is filled with water drums, then the air makes a U-turn and flows through the bottom half, which is filled with a dry stack of masonry.
If the sun only comes out for a couple hours, the masonry will absorb much more heat than the water drums alone could in that short time. At night, when the system is not circulating (due to one-way flaps) the lower masonry heat migrates up over 12 hours to put as many BTU's into the water drums as possible. So then the masonry is cooled as much as they can be to help get max absorption the next morning (a higher heat differential aids total heat absorbed)
A pure masonry stack would have to 2.5 times as large to hold the same BTU's as the hybrid stack, and a pure water-drum mass would absorb heat too low to capture as much solar heat as the hybrid mass. If the mass eventually gets large enough, you can run a coil through some of the water drums to act as the DHW pre-heater, and you can even circulate a PEX-tubing coil through some of the drums to heat baseboard radiant heaters in the bedrooms.
You can also insert an 18-wheeler turbo intercooler (all aluminum radiator) into the top of the enclosure to use a fan to draw off hot air from the mass to the bedrooms.
Just some thoughts....
There may occasionally be cold but sunny days where you've added as much Trombe wall as you physically can, and after a few hours the interior of the house gets so hot that you have to crack a window and shade some of the collectors. Later that night when your house cools off, you'll wonder if there's a cheap way to store some of that heat that you turned away.
Water drums hold 5 times the BTU's as a masonry stack (cinder-blocks?) but masonry absorbs heat faster. Circulate the hot air from the collectors into the top of an insulated containment. Have the air flow past the upper half which is filled with water drums, then the air makes a U-turn and flows through the bottom half, which is filled with a dry stack of masonry.
If the sun only comes out for a couple hours, the masonry will absorb much more heat than the water drums alone could in that short time. At night, when the system is not circulating (due to one-way flaps) the lower masonry heat migrates up over 12 hours to put as many BTU's into the water drums as possible. So then the masonry is cooled as much as they can be to help get max absorption the next morning (a higher heat differential aids total heat absorbed)
A pure masonry stack would have to 2.5 times as large to hold the same BTU's as the hybrid stack, and a pure water-drum mass would absorb heat too low to capture as much solar heat as the hybrid mass. If the mass eventually gets large enough, you can run a coil through some of the water drums to act as the DHW pre-heater, and you can even circulate a PEX-tubing coil through some of the drums to heat baseboard radiant heaters in the bedrooms.
You can also insert an 18-wheeler turbo intercooler (all aluminum radiator) into the top of the enclosure to use a fan to draw off hot air from the mass to the bedrooms.
Just some thoughts....
dogman dan
1 PW
Yeah, I have thought about doing something on the south side that would collect and store heat to be used at night. Like an insulated box dug into the ground with rocks, and a glass top. We may eventually do a serious remodel of that living room wall, increasing the glass sq footage and turning 3 feet of the south facing living room into a true trombe wall.
Fortunately once you close the bedroom door, a dogpack keeps a room pretty warm. Biofuel heat in a way. Just have to like the smell . In my climate, the house doesn't cool all that much overnight. Even if the dog door gets left open half the night, the house only gets down to about 60F. That's due to the r30 attic. We do plan to increase the wall insulation and go to r45 in the attic, and we put some foam sheets in bedroom windows at night, so the loss overnight is not too bad. Most storms last at most, three days. So I can stand to run the fireplace that long when it's cloudy. We do need to increase the thermal mass inside the house though. Sheetrock is good, but we need to drop pebbles into some interior walls. The best place to store the heat is really inside the core of the house, rather than try to make insulated heat storage in a box outside. The basic idea is Ice chest exterior walls, with sold mass interior walls. We have builders in town who do rammed earth exterior walls, and then wood frame the interior, making wiring and plumbing easier. Actually, they should do the reverse :lol: .
Anyway, if I can get the house self heating, then storing some of that heat in pebble filled interior walls will work real good. But it's a what to do this year process, one job at a time. Can't cut too much into the dog walking, bike riding, balloon flying time.
The point of putting some water buckets in the trombe wall space is more about storing cold, than storing heat. Say it gets stormy, snows, and no sun shines for 3 days. Temp outside is 35F for a high, and mabye 20 hours a day it's below freezing. With 50 gallons of water in the trombe wall space, it will be impossible for the air to get below 32 untill 50 gallons freezes solid. So while it's 15f out there, that whole wall will stay at 32. The reverse happens of course, when the sun shines again, so it can take a summy day for the thermal mass to thaw.
Fortunately once you close the bedroom door, a dogpack keeps a room pretty warm. Biofuel heat in a way. Just have to like the smell
. In my climate, the house doesn't cool all that much overnight. Even if the dog door gets left open half the night, the house only gets down to about 60F. That's due to the r30 attic. We do plan to increase the wall insulation and go to r45 in the attic, and we put some foam sheets in bedroom windows at night, so the loss overnight is not too bad. Most storms last at most, three days. So I can stand to run the fireplace that long when it's cloudy. We do need to increase the thermal mass inside the house though. Sheetrock is good, but we need to drop pebbles into some interior walls. The best place to store the heat is really inside the core of the house, rather than try to make insulated heat storage in a box outside. The basic idea is Ice chest exterior walls, with sold mass interior walls. We have builders in town who do rammed earth exterior walls, and then wood frame the interior, making wiring and plumbing easier. Actually, they should do the reverse :lol: .Anyway, if I can get the house self heating, then storing some of that heat in pebble filled interior walls will work real good. But it's a what to do this year process, one job at a time. Can't cut too much into the dog walking, bike riding, balloon flying time.
The point of putting some water buckets in the trombe wall space is more about storing cold, than storing heat. Say it gets stormy, snows, and no sun shines for 3 days. Temp outside is 35F for a high, and mabye 20 hours a day it's below freezing. With 50 gallons of water in the trombe wall space, it will be impossible for the air to get below 32 untill 50 gallons freezes solid. So while it's 15f out there, that whole wall will stay at 32. The reverse happens of course, when the sun shines again, so it can take a summy day for the thermal mass to thaw.
Lessss
1 MW
A weeks worth of rain and voila flat roof >36 years old started to leak.
Drop ceiling reno from 70's removed
Guessing 100 year old plaster remove
lath removed. Oh look ceiling rafters.
Ok now time to call the roofers - -what you're flooded with roofing jobs? What it might be a month before you can do the Job? 4 companies later..... same story for all. Crap I really don't want to have to re-roof it myself.
Drop ceiling reno from 70's removed
Guessing 100 year old plaster remove
lath removed. Oh look ceiling rafters.
Ok now time to call the roofers - -what you're flooded with roofing jobs? What it might be a month before you can do the Job? 4 companies later..... same story for all. Crap I really don't want to have to re-roof it myself.
Attachments
jonescg
100 MW
Yeah, you guys have to build houses for very special conditions. -30 to +40 is a HUGE temperature differential. In Oz we use corrugated iron for roofing, or tiles if you're into that. I hate tiles myself, but some people love them. Clearly you can't use iron roofing in Canada as the expansion/shrinkage would mean a pile of loose sheets after the first 12 months!
Unlike in Perth where we put up with 1'C to 45'C...
Unlike in Perth where we put up with 1'C to 45'C...
dogman dan
1 PW
Do what you can with some fibered asphalt roof coating. You should be able to patch it for 6 months where the leaks are.
It works, I have a few old ladies at work who refuse to buy a new roof. If done annually, you can even get a few more years out of the roof. I maintian 68 flat roofs at my job.
Did you have to pull the insulation? if not, put some in now, that is, when the leaks are gone.
It works, I have a few old ladies at work who refuse to buy a new roof. If done annually, you can even get a few more years out of the roof. I maintian 68 flat roofs at my job.
Did you have to pull the insulation? if not, put some in now, that is, when the leaks are gone.
AussieJester
1 TW
Curious... I can understand 'flat roofs' in places that don't snow, but i would have thought
a flat roof would be bad in snow country, doesn't the snow pile up high puting huge stress on the roof?
I thought snow country houses had big slopped roofs so the snow slides of when it starts to get a build up?
KiM
a flat roof would be bad in snow country, doesn't the snow pile up high puting huge stress on the roof?
I thought snow country houses had big slopped roofs so the snow slides of when it starts to get a build up?
KiM
Lessss
1 MW
Actually flat roofs are very common in Canada. You just don't build the house out of 2x4 but 4x4.
One company just dropped by to do an estimate.
They'll get back to me.
One company just dropped by to do an estimate.
They'll get back to me.
dnmun
1 PW
follow dogman's advice and goop it. or do it yourself. especially if it is flat.
for my roof it cost me $3500 to strip, resheath and build an extension of the roof over the back porch, which was 2 more squares. it was a total of 34 squares, took 100 bundles of shingles, 110 sheets of OSB and plywood and lumber for the rafters over the back porch and strongback, new metal. and paid a guy $900 to help. total cost was about $3500. but that included the garage too. still a lotta shingles.
it would been $20k contracted.
for my roof it cost me $3500 to strip, resheath and build an extension of the roof over the back porch, which was 2 more squares. it was a total of 34 squares, took 100 bundles of shingles, 110 sheets of OSB and plywood and lumber for the rafters over the back porch and strongback, new metal. and paid a guy $900 to help. total cost was about $3500. but that included the garage too. still a lotta shingles.
it would been $20k contracted.
dogman dan
1 PW
Yeah shingles is easy. Well, at least possible single handed. Hot mop is for experts, and guys that like 400 f tar spilled on themselves. I did my shingle roof last spring, saving thousands. Sucked, but at least the hail damage was bad enough to cover the shingle costs with insurance. Thank god the shingles came delivered up to the rooftop.
torker
100 kW
I got a new 95% furnace last fall which got me a $1500.00 tax break=cool :lol: and now ins. did a total loss on my roof for hail and wind damage. 39 squares I think. Ins. approved $8500.00 and my est. is $8800.00 so pretty close. I know I am not getting up there