pianoman
10 mW
- Joined
- May 29, 2011
- Messages
- 29
High guys,
This one is my latest build and has the following setup:
HS3540 motor air cooled in 26 inch wheel, 8 20mm holes on each side, actually on freewheel side 4 20mm and 4 14mm holes, was afraid to drill all 8 at 20mm thinking the cover could become too weak
Stock phase wires, but with 8awg extension from axle to controller
Lyen 24fet 4110 controller
Cell man a123 24s6p split pack with 80a continuous bms, part in triangle, part over top tube
large screen CA
Temp sensor
3 speed switch
Atomlab pimp 2 cromoly dirt jump frame with 5mm rear horizontal tight dropouts, here's link to specs http://www.atomlab.com/mtbframep2.html
9mm stainless steel custom cut torque arm on one side, 5mm on the other
Rockshox domain u-turn suspension fork set at aprox. 120mm travel, thru axle, strong single crowne, thick and firm 32mm steel stanchions,link to specs: http://www.sram.com/rockshox/products/domain-r
Avid bb7 203mm front and bb5 160mm rear disk brakes
Atomlab pimp rim, sapim 12g spokes on rear wheel
maxxis hookworm tires with downhill tubes and slime
11-32 7 speed freewheel
65tooth chainring (for pedalling at 70 kmh!)
Lights, air horn, etc.
First when bought the motor, I thought I have a 5304 winding and stupidly enough on first test gave it WOT acceleration from still going uphill, as a result in a minute lyen 18fet failed on 60a 150a phase settings, melted phase wires (had not extensions from axle to controller then), overheated motor as well. Then opened and checked the motor, fortunately no damage within it, just some rubbed wires because of axle and side cover design, fixed that removing rubber seal, did phase extensions, drilled holes, upgraded to 24fet and installed temp sensor. The strange thing is that at about 108° Celsius stator starts rubbing against magnets, so I have to keep it at less then 105° aprox., generally try not to exceed 100°, that feels very limiting. After doing some research I now accelerate very gently off line, but give some strong power bursts after reaching about 35kmh and it feels very powerfull at 70a battery, left phase at 130a for now.
I started to suspect the motor not being a 5304 as known from 1st generation, it looks like HS3540 which is between 5304 and 5303 rpmwise, being a bit less hard on controller I guess, at least compared to 5303, that’s a good thing, but maybe HT would have been better eventhough it is a bit too slow at 80v, but closer to my needs then HS. The good thing about it is an excellent mechanical fit, no dishing what makes a stronger wheel, easy disk brake and freewheel fit and less weight.
Maybe I’ll install a temp probe on controller too, but for now I have to do some more testing, but until now I have registered a highest temp of 45 ° Celsius. Is this ok? Tests are done with 80v 70a battery 130a phase, mostly flats 60kmh with some short strong accelerations and some little hills.
Please, would you help me understand this:
1) does phase current limiting in programming affect only low rpm performance or high rpm as well?
2) Can I use different relation between battery and phase currents being usual 2,5x? What about battery 60a phase 115a for example? I figured at ebikes.ca simulator that for HS3540 at 60a battery 115a phase current is less then 115 when over 25kmh which is where I start to use stronger acceleration, I don’t accelerate strongly off the line
3) Are only high programmed phase amp values a danger to controller or high battery amps as well?
4) What would you say is a safe limit of phase amps for 24fet 4110 for continuous use, for example when climbing hills at medium speed? Do I risk blowing a 24fet when doing 5-7 % climbs at about 25-30 kmh and pedaling?
5) What is a safe max temp for24fet enclosure?
6) Can this controller be used safely with this motor under mostly non WOT conditions (I almost can never do continuous WOT, unless limiting the amps, top speed is just too high and motor overheats very soon), or it just depends from programming values?
7) If battery amps software restricted to, let’s say 20a, would it be WOT condition, or for WOT motor also has to be in its BEMF zone which then demands much higher amps?
8) Would having HT instead of HS changing things dramatically regarding to heat? I suspect that at lower rpm HT would probably run cooler, but at high rpm the diference would be just less stress on controller with HT, but same heat, or am I wrong? I guess a 5305 would be a great option, but can’t find them… A 11 tooth rear sprocket compatibility, hence 7sp freewheel is important to me for pedalling at high speed.
9) Should I drill some more holes to improve cooling or it's not worth it?
10) Am I in danger of melting those short stock phase wires that are just within motor and axle, from axle they have 8awg extensions? Touching them never seem too hot, but I don't know if they manage to cool down quickly before I stop the bike and touch them. I don't use much power at slow speeds, but do it above 30-35 kmh
11) Is it necessary to use super strong rim and thicker then 14gauge spokes on front wheel in this case? Thru axle hub is 32h. Cruising speeds are 50-60kmh on very smooth flats without potholes, I avoid those and if there are any, travel very slowly. No offroad.
Your help will be higly appreciated, I have learned many things reading the forum, but still don’t have enough electronic nor mechanical knowledge and really want to have a reliable setup. I am enjoying strong acceleration as anyone would, but I am concerned about it being a bike, not motorcycle, as far as the frame and other components and thought about limiting to 60a battery and 115a phase which would still be plenty powerfull. I am worried that by time the frame weldings, spokes or torque arms could fail if too much power is used on regular basis caising excess stress. Or would you say it’s still too much for a reliable setup, or maybe on the contrary it would be safe to use even higher power for bursts for short distance runs? Dropouts and torque arms are tight, but not clamping tight... The last thing I want is a spinning axle. Cruising speed target is 60kmh, but for now I can’t do that for long, motor starts to heat up, but 50kmh continuous it does fine at 90-100° motor temp.
Thank you and cheers.
This one is my latest build and has the following setup:
HS3540 motor air cooled in 26 inch wheel, 8 20mm holes on each side, actually on freewheel side 4 20mm and 4 14mm holes, was afraid to drill all 8 at 20mm thinking the cover could become too weak
Stock phase wires, but with 8awg extension from axle to controller
Lyen 24fet 4110 controller
Cell man a123 24s6p split pack with 80a continuous bms, part in triangle, part over top tube
large screen CA
Temp sensor
3 speed switch
Atomlab pimp 2 cromoly dirt jump frame with 5mm rear horizontal tight dropouts, here's link to specs http://www.atomlab.com/mtbframep2.html
9mm stainless steel custom cut torque arm on one side, 5mm on the other
Rockshox domain u-turn suspension fork set at aprox. 120mm travel, thru axle, strong single crowne, thick and firm 32mm steel stanchions,link to specs: http://www.sram.com/rockshox/products/domain-r
Avid bb7 203mm front and bb5 160mm rear disk brakes
Atomlab pimp rim, sapim 12g spokes on rear wheel
maxxis hookworm tires with downhill tubes and slime
11-32 7 speed freewheel
65tooth chainring (for pedalling at 70 kmh!)
Lights, air horn, etc.
First when bought the motor, I thought I have a 5304 winding and stupidly enough on first test gave it WOT acceleration from still going uphill, as a result in a minute lyen 18fet failed on 60a 150a phase settings, melted phase wires (had not extensions from axle to controller then), overheated motor as well. Then opened and checked the motor, fortunately no damage within it, just some rubbed wires because of axle and side cover design, fixed that removing rubber seal, did phase extensions, drilled holes, upgraded to 24fet and installed temp sensor. The strange thing is that at about 108° Celsius stator starts rubbing against magnets, so I have to keep it at less then 105° aprox., generally try not to exceed 100°, that feels very limiting. After doing some research I now accelerate very gently off line, but give some strong power bursts after reaching about 35kmh and it feels very powerfull at 70a battery, left phase at 130a for now.
I started to suspect the motor not being a 5304 as known from 1st generation, it looks like HS3540 which is between 5304 and 5303 rpmwise, being a bit less hard on controller I guess, at least compared to 5303, that’s a good thing, but maybe HT would have been better eventhough it is a bit too slow at 80v, but closer to my needs then HS. The good thing about it is an excellent mechanical fit, no dishing what makes a stronger wheel, easy disk brake and freewheel fit and less weight.
Maybe I’ll install a temp probe on controller too, but for now I have to do some more testing, but until now I have registered a highest temp of 45 ° Celsius. Is this ok? Tests are done with 80v 70a battery 130a phase, mostly flats 60kmh with some short strong accelerations and some little hills.
Please, would you help me understand this:
1) does phase current limiting in programming affect only low rpm performance or high rpm as well?
2) Can I use different relation between battery and phase currents being usual 2,5x? What about battery 60a phase 115a for example? I figured at ebikes.ca simulator that for HS3540 at 60a battery 115a phase current is less then 115 when over 25kmh which is where I start to use stronger acceleration, I don’t accelerate strongly off the line
3) Are only high programmed phase amp values a danger to controller or high battery amps as well?
4) What would you say is a safe limit of phase amps for 24fet 4110 for continuous use, for example when climbing hills at medium speed? Do I risk blowing a 24fet when doing 5-7 % climbs at about 25-30 kmh and pedaling?
5) What is a safe max temp for24fet enclosure?
6) Can this controller be used safely with this motor under mostly non WOT conditions (I almost can never do continuous WOT, unless limiting the amps, top speed is just too high and motor overheats very soon), or it just depends from programming values?
7) If battery amps software restricted to, let’s say 20a, would it be WOT condition, or for WOT motor also has to be in its BEMF zone which then demands much higher amps?
8) Would having HT instead of HS changing things dramatically regarding to heat? I suspect that at lower rpm HT would probably run cooler, but at high rpm the diference would be just less stress on controller with HT, but same heat, or am I wrong? I guess a 5305 would be a great option, but can’t find them… A 11 tooth rear sprocket compatibility, hence 7sp freewheel is important to me for pedalling at high speed.
9) Should I drill some more holes to improve cooling or it's not worth it?
10) Am I in danger of melting those short stock phase wires that are just within motor and axle, from axle they have 8awg extensions? Touching them never seem too hot, but I don't know if they manage to cool down quickly before I stop the bike and touch them. I don't use much power at slow speeds, but do it above 30-35 kmh
11) Is it necessary to use super strong rim and thicker then 14gauge spokes on front wheel in this case? Thru axle hub is 32h. Cruising speeds are 50-60kmh on very smooth flats without potholes, I avoid those and if there are any, travel very slowly. No offroad.
Your help will be higly appreciated, I have learned many things reading the forum, but still don’t have enough electronic nor mechanical knowledge and really want to have a reliable setup. I am enjoying strong acceleration as anyone would, but I am concerned about it being a bike, not motorcycle, as far as the frame and other components and thought about limiting to 60a battery and 115a phase which would still be plenty powerfull. I am worried that by time the frame weldings, spokes or torque arms could fail if too much power is used on regular basis caising excess stress. Or would you say it’s still too much for a reliable setup, or maybe on the contrary it would be safe to use even higher power for bursts for short distance runs? Dropouts and torque arms are tight, but not clamping tight... The last thing I want is a spinning axle. Cruising speed target is 60kmh, but for now I can’t do that for long, motor starts to heat up, but 50kmh continuous it does fine at 90-100° motor temp.
Thank you and cheers.
