LR Big Block Motoped

[john61ct]

Jct: At this point, is it safe to say I do not need to pursue this type of mechanical torque limiter?

The slipper clutch is Matt Shumaker’s design. He invested a ton of time in it’s development and seems to believe in it. I have huge respect for Matt and have learned a lot from him. In this instance I’m not in favor of a slipper or torque limiting clutch. I prefer a solid, direct link and using electronic means to limit the torque delivered to the driveline. To me slipping means wasted power and wear on the slipping parts. Definitely read everything Matt has to say on the subject and make up your own mind.

I'll add it to the list

I definitely would not want something that would slip in normal use, my idea was more like a circuit breaker, prevents damage perhaps at some inconvenience, but easily "reset" and continue on my way, thus learning to more skilfully "take it easy".

 

[DanGT86]

Slipper clutch is set to break away at a particular torque. It is not an on off switch and you likely wouldn't even feel it working. It just slips away the extra torque while still transmitting some.

You DO NOT need sine wave or FOC for smooth takeoff. Those are neat and more refined control strategies but they matter at timescales you wont notice. Its not going to make the difference between breaking and not breaking things.

PAS minimum speed is a thing and you can implement it with a CA3 for sure. No fancy throttle gadget required. Same for the 3 speed switch. A CA3 with PAS will take commands from the pedal sensor and or the throttle. There are vids on ebikes.ca showing ways to setup pas. I would imagine other controllers work the same way.

You can try to be smooth with a throttle but limiting the ramp time with a CA3 or a controller is a way better idea if it means the difference between destroying things and not. Getting a bike moving even a few mph before applying throttle will drastically reduce driveline shock and torque peaks.

Aluminum pins in the place of OEM plastic ones are not certain to protect gearing. They might protect the gears by chance but if they aren't from Rolhof then you are intentionally defeating an overload device.

The tire wheel size debate here is a lot of specific terms being thrown around. If you want to understand the physics involved then you should try to get the exact terminology right. Hillhater is correct in that a smaller wheel doesn't make more torque. Torque is the force at a given radius. In other words ft-lb already accounts for the number of feet. You could measure it with a 2" wheel or a 100" wheel and you would get the same result. The key is that the amount of force exerted at the wheel does change with the diameter.

If the torque output of the wheel is 100 lb-ft then it is exerting a force of 100lb at a 1ft radius. If you switch that out for a wheel with a 2ft radius then the same twisting force at the hub is now exerting 50lbs at 2 feet. So using a wheel of half the diameter will apply 2x the force on the road with the same input torque. BUT the actual torque number is the same since the amount of twisting force (aka torque) the hub is sending out through the spokes has not changed.

More simply, the larger the wheel is the more torque you will need to send into the rolhoff to pull your load uphill. Since you are worried about applying too much toque you'd be best served using the smallest diameter wheel you can live with. Unless you find that the Rolhoff more than covers your needs. For that please see the results I posted in your other thread after playing with the online calculator.

I suggest we take this conversation over to your Rolhoff torque limiting thread. LR has been more than accommodating considering this thread is about the motoped. I am hesitant to even post the above here but it seemed relevant in that some of this was directly dealing with his past couple of posts.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1541984

 

[LightningRods]

One of the features I’m most excited about from the FOC controllers is smooth, linear power delivery. More controllable power means you can have more power. It’s good all the way around. This is different from “up speed”. That’s a limit to how fast the throttle signal can increase, no matter what you do with hand input. This can make the throttle feel laggy or soggy. Not responsive. A really linear throttle curve means we can have a fast, snappy up rate and still not get unwanted kicks in the ass. I’ve learned how to compensate for throttle dead spots and surges and it doesn’t bother me that much. A lot of my customers really hate it though so I’m trying to solve for it.
PAS is just a way to make sure that you get some exercise. It’s really best suited to low power. It can work well for “econo mode”- running at low power and supplementing with pedal. It’s a great range extender. Once you’re running 10x human power you’re not contributing a lot to the movement of the bike. I would never ride a tight trail with high power and PAS. It’s just not as controllable as the hand throttle.
PAS usually kicks in when you start pedaling. I’d set the PAS really low, just enough to reduce pedaling effort, and then use the hand throttle for any serious power input.

 

[LightningRods]

I suggest we take this conversation over to your Rolhoff torque limiting thread. LR has been more than accommodating considering this thread is about the motoped.

Please.

 

[heynow9991]

I didn't know you can still buy motopeds. They have the Pro version in stock.

Question for LR, if I were to buy the Pro version, can you sell me a kit with the motor and whatever other parts are needed to complete the driveline? Battery I can take care of myself but I would look to you for a recommendation for the controller

Thanks

 

[LightningRods]

I have the parts available for two complete drives right now. I want to sell these parts as complete drives since they’re all that I have on hand and it will take time to get more. I am going to order more bracket sets. I’ll post here when they’re in.

Alan Hu resurfaced today saying that his NXT programmable display combined with ASI BAC2000 are in stock and ready to ship. IF he has his fulfillment ducks in a row this is a killer setup.

Who has Motoped Pros? Motocruisin?

 

[heynow9991]

On th Motocruzin website it shows they have the Pro in stock. My problem is I am in Canada, but near to Buffalo. For large shipments I usually ship to a UPS store in NY state and go and pick it up as shipping is killer for large or expensive packages to Canada. The border is closed until June 21, maybe longer.

Can you give a price for a complete drive? You can PM me if you prefer, Thanks

 

[cka3o4nuk]

Any news about XL Big Block?
tried to contact in pm but didnt get any answer

 

[LightningRods]

Progress photos on the XL Motoped. Just waiting for the controller at this point.

 

[LightningRods]

The completed drive and jackshaft. Overall reduction is a bit over 10:1.

 

[cka3o4nuk]

Any chance to buy Two XL motors?

 

[LightningRods]

Yes I’ll sell you two XL motors. $325 each plus shipping.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

sign me up for a LR IPM XL motor.. any link to buy yet?? and how about motor mounts for motoped? eta???

 

[cka3o4nuk]

Yes I’ll sell you two XL motors. $325 each plus shipping.

thanx the best news for a week!

 

[LightningRods]

I have Motoped brackets. I can also get more made. If the company were still in business I’d get a bunch made. I already have plenty of expensive laser cut metal laying around.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

motopeds are obsolete imo.. but they are still available and many ppl already have them and are itching for (affordable) electric motor kit.. so it's just a matter of someone making that available, while the market is still there..

 

[LightningRods]

After working with the Motoped for a few months, the swingarm is the heart of the design. It’s a nice piece. The jackshaft is right on the pivot point which is perfect. The pedal system is pretty ridiculous. It’s really just for compliance.
I’ll make drives available to people who want them. I never really expected this to be a volume deal because of the flakey nature of the Motoped company from day one. What they did back in 2014 was impressive. Too bad they couldn’t stay with it and keep improving it.

 

[Vinsanity]

Would like some additional information on LR Big Block for the motoped

Do you offer a controller that’s compatible with the motor - if so what is the controller type / brand / specs etc

What is the maximum sustained power the motor is capable of sustaining - wanting 10,000 watts or more - also I have a 72 volt battery so needs to be comparable with it

How is the chain tensioned

What gear ratio does it have

Lastly can the sprockets be 420 series

Thanks

 

[Vinsanity]

One more thing - what is the price

 

[LightningRods]

I don’t sell controllers. The ASI, Nucular, and PowerVelocity FOC are great controllers and fully compatible with my motors.

Maximum power depends on a lot of variables. The Motoped drive uses my largest motor, the “XL” Big Block. I’ve run it at 16kW with no signs that it was stressed or getting hot. If you run it for miles up a steep hill at that power level on a 100 degree day it’s likely going to get warm. The last tests I did (before the onset of crappy weather) was at 200A bursts, controller limited. I’d like to try 300A for even more violence. I want to have to respect the throttle. I was running my tests at 20S, which is considered 72V. I was closer to 82V.

The primary chain is tensioned with an alternator style swing bracket backed up by a threaded stop to prevent slipping under power. You can run 420 if you want. 420 drivers that fit my motors are available. The standard sprockets on the Motoped jackshaft are 420. I went to 219 for the primary because it’s plenty strong and gives more reduction in the available space. The bike I built is 10.5:1 overall. You can vary the gearing a lot by mixing up different drivers and driven sprockets.

The drive alone, which is the motor, primary reduction, mounting plates, tensioners, hardware, is $595. I designed other parts for the Motoped which you can buy or not.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

I don’t sell controllers. The ASI, Nucular, and PowerVelocity FOC are great controllers and fully compatible with my motors.

Maximum power depends on a lot of variables. The Motoped drive uses my largest motor, the “XL” Big Block. I’ve run it at 16kW with no signs that it was stressed or getting hot. If you run it for miles up a steep hill at that power level on a 100 degree day it’s likely going to get warm. The last tests I did (before the onset of crappy weather) was at 200A bursts, controller limited. I’d like to try 300A for even more violence. I want to have to respect the throttle. I was running my tests at 20S, which is considered 72V. I was closer to 82V.

The primary chain is tensioned with an alternator style swing bracket backed up by a threaded stop to prevent slipping under power. You can run 420 if you want. 420 drivers that fit my motors are available. The standard sprockets on the Motoped jackshaft are 420. I went to 219 for the primary because it’s plenty strong and gives more reduction in the available space. The bike I built is 10.5:1 overall. You can vary the gearing a lot by mixing up different drivers and driven sprockets.

The drive alone, which is the motor, primary reduction, mounting plates, tensioners, hardware, is $595. I designed other parts for the Motoped which you can buy or not.

how can I buy the motoped kit, link??

 

[LightningRods]

My business email is michael@backusstudio.com. If you don’t get a prompt response please PM me through ES.