Manly dropouts Improved Fronts & Rears new pics pg 3

[davespicer]

If anyone thinks I should also drill and tap to install a bolt in front of the axle for maximum clamping force, let me know...

The fellow who used an ultracapacitor as a power source wound up putting a bolt through the axle to stop rotation, but there's a lot more metal in your setup...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7511&hilit=ultracapacitor&start=30#p122326

 

[John in CR]

Got any more info on the motor ? Is it something like a smaller version of the X6 ?

No, it's more like something between a 9C and an X5 with speed windings. It's got the weight of an X5 but I believe less copper, and a high pole count like a 9C but wider magnets. I've never used either so I don't have a direct comparison. On my regular routes there's a long enough 8% grade to consider it continuous operation, and at 74v nominal with 20" tire, 240lb me, at least 10lb in the backpack, 105lb of bike (in my primary battery configuration), I zip up the hill on motor alone (can't pedal that fast on this single speed) at 28-30mph with always a bit of headwind. I regularly exceed 50mph on flat road, but for lack of long good flat road without wind I've never done a proper top speed test.

 

[vanilla ice]

Best dropouts EVARRRG.

 

[amberwolf]

I think they ought to be called "dynamiteouts". Because it would take dynamite to get the wheel out, short of undoing them the intended way.

 

[John in CR]

Wait till you guys see the ones for the front. I picked up a set of motorcycle forks today and started on the steel sleeves with integral clamping dropouts made using 5/8" steel this time. Something along the lines of these that I installed on aluminum bike forks whose dropouts snapped off, but better this time of course:

 

[amberwolf]

OOH OOH! "Bombouts". Because it would take a bomb to knock the axle out and because they really are "the bomb". :lol:

 

[Hyena]

What about brownouts, because if you ever manage to break them you'll shit bricks :lol:

 

[John in CR]

What about brownouts, because if you ever manage to break them you'll shit bricks :lol:

Brownouts are what AL dropouts should be called, especially on the front, although faceplantouts is the technical term. 8)

 

[amberwolf]

That's true. If anyone broke *your* dropouts, they'd have a lot more to worry about than a faceplant, I'd expect.

I am glad that my little Fusin motor is not very slam-bang kind of power, because I need to put it in some Al dropouts. The only ones I have that will properly fit it are the Manitou Skareb shocks I found on that Trek bike frame. Plus, those appear to be nice shocks, once I fix whatever is wrong with the damping system. But they are Al forks and dropouts, and have no place I could put a wrench as a torque arm, unless I custom make a torque arm for it.

I'd have to make a sleeve and steel dropouts as you did. I'd rather not have to do that.

 

[John in CR]

That's true. If anyone broke *your* dropouts, they'd have a lot more to worry about than a faceplant, I'd expect.

I am glad that my little Fusin motor is not very slam-bang kind of power, because I need to put it in some Al dropouts. The only ones I have that will properly fit it are the Manitou Skareb shocks I found on that Trek bike frame. Plus, those appear to be nice shocks, once I fix whatever is wrong with the damping system. But they are Al forks and dropouts, and have no place I could put a wrench as a torque arm, unless I custom make a torque arm for it.

I'd have to make a sleeve and steel dropouts as you did. I'd rather not have to do that.

The Fusin is geared, so likely more torque than regular direct drive hubbies. Kiss those AL dropouts goodbye, and don't hurt yourself in the process. I learned my lesson about AL dropouts in the first 10ft of my first hubmotor ride, luckily without the faceplant. You're talking about hundreds of pounds of torque at that radius, and AL just goes "snap".

 

[patrickza]

Love it. Anyone know what the dropouts look like on the stealth bikes? I asked on another forum and was told it's a trade secret.

Anyway send a pair to justin for his twist tests. Should give him a good workout

 

[amberwolf]

The Fusin is geared, so likely more torque than regular direct drive hubbies. Kiss those AL dropouts goodbye, and don't hurt yourself in the process. I learned my lesson about AL dropouts in the first 10ft of my first hubmotor ride, luckily without the faceplant. You're talking about hundreds of pounds of torque at that radius, and AL just goes "snap".

That's probably true. Although I never slam on the throttle (having learned lessons from CrazyBike2's destruction of various parts, I know what torque *means*), it might still be enough to eventually break, especially since I have NO idea what these forks have been thru before I got them.

Well, since I probably won't have time to take apart, diagnose, and fix the Skareb fork anytime soon, it doesn't much matter. By the time I do, I'll probably have turned the Fusin into a Stokemonkey setup on an Xtracycle-clone. :lol:

 

[Hyena]

Its in my sig but I'm posting it here again anyway as a warning to all about alloy forks and front motors!

Disclaimer: OK so thats not an ebike, but the end result will be the same!

 

[John in CR]

Hyena,
That looks like an AL headset failure to me and nothing to do with motors or dropouts.

Amberwolf,
Got the last motor piece done today (I think) for my ventilated Fusin in out of wheel use with real phase wires. Maybe I can give it a test spin up tomorrow or Saturday after a critical look at how to force air through that small and tightly packed stator. I don't expect the plastic gears to hold up long-term with the power I want to shove through it, but I want to prove the concept of ventilating a geared hub first. If it works, then add a metal planetary into the mix. If it doesn't work, then the raw motor gets a 4.5-5 to 1 chain reduction. Worst case I have to figure out how to combine 2, which I have.

John

 

[Hyena]

Yeah John its not an ebike at all, spoil my fun why don't ya!
But the end result from a hub motor in AL dropouts is the same.

Have you got any more info about your motors ? Another thread ? Were they a custom order that you had to order a few of or you just got a few to experiment ? What sort of current have you been feeding them ? I'm keen to hear how you get on with them at high power levels, and likewise with the air cooled fusins. I think my next project will be to try similar with a larger metal geared MAC motor.

 

[amberwolf]

Got the last motor piece done today (I think) for my ventilated Fusin in out of wheel use with real phase wires. Maybe I can give it a test spin up tomorrow or Saturday after a critical look at how to force air through that small and tightly packed stator. I don't expect the plastic gears to hold up long-term with the power I want to shove through it, but I want to prove the concept of ventilating a geared hub first. If it works, then add a metal planetary into the mix. If it doesn't work, then the raw motor gets a 4.5-5 to 1 chain reduction. Worst case I have to figure out how to combine 2, which I have.

I am most definitely interested in the results of this. I did a quick look but probably missed wherever you've already posted about doing this (I keep finding threads I simply missed when they started, about interesting stuff--there's just too much going on on ES to keep track of!).

If it were not for our sand and gritty flinty dust everpresent in the air (even on calm days you can taste it on the roads, kicked up from the car tires), I would consider ventilating this Fusin, but it would likely be a bad idea without some air filtration system in place. Even the little openings on the powerchair motors at the front end for the brake solenoids and stuff let in enough dust that when I have opened them I am concerned for their brush and comm life.

I also would like to see what source you find/have for the metal gears.

How are you connecting the out-of-wheel Fusin to the drivetrain? Bolting sprocket directly to the outer face of one end of it?

 

[John in CR]

Amberwolf,

The Fusin conversion will get its own thread. I'm just taking pics in the meantime. I will be outside of the wheel. Once proven, it will get a very lightweight housing that enables air intake and exhaust without debris into the motor. My biggest concern about debris is what comes in on the chain, but the motor intake holes are on the other side of the motor, and exhaust is between the spoke flanges. The idea is cheap, much more power than stock, near RC weight and size with easy mounting, and motor output near wheel speed so very quiet. Hopefully it works.

 

[John in CR]

Below are the new and improved versions including those for front and rear. I figured what the heck and went to 5/8" steel plate for these. Why not since I couldn't care less about a few ounces here and there, especially when the dropouts on this "bicycle" may get to each see torque from electric motors being fed as much as 40hp with all of that torque focused at a 6-9mm radius. If that doesn't justify overkill, then I don't know what does.

Here's are the motorcycle front forks for the bike. Those lower housings are 6060AL, so I have to go with steel sleeves over them for the dropouts.
View attachment 2

Here are the rear dropouts to be welded into a rectangular tubing swingarm, the front "L" shaped dropouts to be attached to those open metal sleeves, along with the AL fork housing with the unneeded stuff cut off. Screw the slowness of that milling machine stuff, these pieces were made with an angle grinder, hand drill, manual threading tap, and hacksaw with doubled up blades to cut the clamping slots (1 blade thickness wasn't enough on the last set). I will spend some more time with the grinder and brush to shape and smooth a bit more before painting it at the end.


In raw form here's how the fronts will fit together. I'm undecided regarding clamping with bolts and mods to the sleeves, or just using epoxy to permanently attach the sleeves to the fork housing for a clean and smooth look.

 

[John in CR]

At least my welding is improving pretty well. TIG and MIG have nothing on this IMHO.


Here we are front and rear 5/8" thick steel dropouts almost ready for installation

 

[Hyena]

We have a saying in Australia that I believe appropriately describes your work here John, and that saying is "built like a brick shithouse!"
In the last pic, the slot in the sleave on the right looks like it's a bit skewed - is that a slight error or is it to combat your unevenly machined axle flats ?

 

[John in CR]

Good eye Hyena. Yes they are cut different, and yes it was intentional to fit the axles which are the same on all 5 of my same motors, ie the flats on 2 different planes. I tack welded the 2 L's together with a slight twist and cut the slots for both at the same time to help ensure uniformity.