Massive prejudice against ebikes
- Thread starter veloman
- Start date
jdcburg
100 W
My point is not that you can’t pull a heavy or large load with an ebike. There is ample evidence that it can be done. The question is: can it be done safely? I’m no physics whiz but it seems that turning or stopping a lightweight bicycle (e- or pedal) with a heavy trailer hooked through a jointed hitch could be tricky. Jack-knifing with the rider being flipped to the outside seems like a definite possibility to me. That’s what usually happens in 4-wheel jack-knife accidents. I think pedal power limits the load, especially if there are hills involved. With e-power and zig-zagging, going up hills might be doable, but going down the other side could present a situation that the average ebiker has not experienced. So could panic stops or attempted swerves on flat ground, even at 5-10 mph. The results could range from embarrassing to deadly for the rider.
I think in general ebike riders are a reasonably intelligent lot and Darwin’s law will tend to weed out the rest. But I worry that doing something inherently dangerous or foolish on public streets will sooner or later result in the death or serious injury of what I call a newsworthy innocent – a child, a young mother or maybe a little old lady. It might be doing 40 mph on a converted Walmart bike or pulling a heavy trailer with a lightweight bike or something else, but if a bad accident happens and the news media decides to make an issue out of it, some politician is going to see an opportunity.
There are those who argue that progress is only made by those who push the envelope. While that may occasionally be true, I believe the steadiest progress is made by those who constantly tweak and test. Sort of a tortoise vs hare philosophy. I like flying under the radar and I hope to keep doing it for a while. I think one of the best ways to keep the radar off us is to keep the craziest stunts off the public roads. Do them at car or bike shows, re-enactments, race tracks, in the woods or out in the desert, even empty parking lots – anyplace but where an accident will attract unwanted attention - jd
I think in general ebike riders are a reasonably intelligent lot and Darwin’s law will tend to weed out the rest. But I worry that doing something inherently dangerous or foolish on public streets will sooner or later result in the death or serious injury of what I call a newsworthy innocent – a child, a young mother or maybe a little old lady. It might be doing 40 mph on a converted Walmart bike or pulling a heavy trailer with a lightweight bike or something else, but if a bad accident happens and the news media decides to make an issue out of it, some politician is going to see an opportunity.
There are those who argue that progress is only made by those who push the envelope. While that may occasionally be true, I believe the steadiest progress is made by those who constantly tweak and test. Sort of a tortoise vs hare philosophy. I like flying under the radar and I hope to keep doing it for a while. I think one of the best ways to keep the radar off us is to keep the craziest stunts off the public roads. Do them at car or bike shows, re-enactments, race tracks, in the woods or out in the desert, even empty parking lots – anyplace but where an accident will attract unwanted attention - jd
John in CR
100 TW
JD,
If you're hauling heavy loads with an ebike and trailer, then the trailer just needs brakes.
If you're hauling heavy loads with an ebike and trailer, then the trailer just needs brakes.
gestalt
10 kW
yeah, tacking is just going to cause an accident...or road rage. it's all about getting into a gear low enough that you can still climb, even if it's slow. the nice thing about the hills is that on the way down all that cargo is going to give you that gravity assist on the way back down. I just got done doing the annual boston "hub on wheels" charity ride. we did a 36 mile route not counting the ten miles from and to the shop with our pedicabs. the cabs weigh about 200lbs. and carrying another 130lbs of passenger. last year I towed my girlfriend, though this year we cheated and the passengers were also riders and we got to switch off about every ten miles. much easier
jdcburg
100 W
Maybe this should be a new thread, but does anyone have real-world experience with trailering loads, from light to heavy? JCR says just add brakes, but that seems like it might get complicated. Surge, electric, hydraulic, cable - anybody tried any of these on bikes? I've used surge and electric on p/u trucks with horse trailers (5000-6000lb) and I wouldn't be without them. Even in a full-sized truck, being pushed downhill by that weight is a scary experience.
Gestalt - I think a Pedicab is a trike with a rigid frame. Are you saying you towed a trailer with a one or was all of the load on the trike? I speculated above what might happen when a few hundred pounds on a trailer is pushing a 2-wheeled bike downhill, but has anyone actually done it?
What about the point of attachment to the bike? Kid trailers attach to one side of the rear axle but tag-along bikes attach to the seat tube. What's the difference in handling and what happens when the load gets bigger? I have a kid trailer but I haven't put more than 30 lbs in it, just because I haven't needed to, but I will probably keep it under 50 lbs because I have some hills >10% around here - jd
Gestalt - I think a Pedicab is a trike with a rigid frame. Are you saying you towed a trailer with a one or was all of the load on the trike? I speculated above what might happen when a few hundred pounds on a trailer is pushing a 2-wheeled bike downhill, but has anyone actually done it?
What about the point of attachment to the bike? Kid trailers attach to one side of the rear axle but tag-along bikes attach to the seat tube. What's the difference in handling and what happens when the load gets bigger? I have a kid trailer but I haven't put more than 30 lbs in it, just because I haven't needed to, but I will probably keep it under 50 lbs because I have some hills >10% around here - jd
Here's the hitch the bikes@work guy uses:
It is interesting that a quick browse of his website finds no mention of brakes. You could install more than one brake system on the back wheel. I think the guy has posted on ES before, you could try emailing him.
It is interesting that a quick browse of his website finds no mention of brakes. You could install more than one brake system on the back wheel. I think the guy has posted on ES before, you could try emailing him.
Evoforce
10 kW
Your brakes could also be that helper motor that is on your trailer with regenerative braking. I understand fear can be a mental stopper on all kinds of things and JD does have some valid points. There are some loads too large for a bicycle to handle but some loads could be managed. I have a jeep cherokee and a 21 foot travel trailer and it is all it can handle (maybe a little too much). I almost died with this rig in New Mexico on down side of a mountain when a big crosswind hit. 
Well anyway... I do like to see that a question is asked about what possibly could be handled and who has done what. Knowledge can sometimes overcome fear. Healthy fear of things can save your life but too much fear is paralyzing. Of course, life without risk would be boring!
Well anyway... I do like to see that a question is asked about what possibly could be handled and who has done what. Knowledge can sometimes overcome fear. Healthy fear of things can save your life but too much fear is paralyzing. Of course, life without risk would be boring!
gestalt
10 kW
Last year we had the trailer style, now we have the rigid trikes. I liked the trailers because it was much easier to carry four to seven people, now were laced ou at four. I never experienced my trailer thing me much problems loaded up going downhill, but I was always very carefull when it was wet out. The trick is to mainly use your rear brake and not your front if you can help it. In fact the trailer made it real fun and easy to skid out my rear wheel and swing it out so I would me skidding perpendicular to the trailer.