Micro Lebowski Controller - DIY 3kw

[Animalector]

Might grab this hey? looks like it'll work ok for testing and I can always build up a cheapy run around ebike...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Electric...7d5d827&pid=100040&rk=2&rkt=4&sd=111523676423

 

[izeman]

Might grab this hey? looks like it'll work ok for testing and I can always build up a cheapy run around ebike...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Electric...7d5d827&pid=100040&rk=2&rkt=4&sd=111523676423

sure. and the GOOD thing: there's a controller included in case your's aint work
jokes aside: you don't have a SINGLE motor you can borrow to test the controller? what are you building that controller for if you ain't got a motor?

i don't see if this motor is sensored. i would buy a sensored motor as you can test both modes of your controller. fitting halls to a new motor is not worth the effort if you can just buy one with halls installed.

 

[cycborg]

Yeah, looks like a good setup but I'd ask the seller about the halls (hopefully they know what you're talking about). In the second photo you can see the cable end, and there are 3 phase wires but I don't see anything else. On the other hand, the controller looks like it has about 15 connectors coming out so hopefully one of them is for the halls.

Not a dealbreaker of course since the Lebowski should work fine sensorless even at startup, but since it does have this functionality it would be good to test it.

Good luck with the house.

 

[izeman]

this plug looks like a hall sensor connector. i doubt it's for programming, as they normally use JST connectors for that.
what puzzles me is that colors are red, black, yellow, green and GREY instead of BLUE. but it could by cyan and dark blue and my monitor shows bad colors?!



also, when asking the seller about HALL SENSORS, i would ask "what kind of plugs does the controller come with?" instead of asking "does it use hall sensors?". chinese sellers tend to answer YES/NO questions with a clear "YES"

 

[Animalector]

jokes aside: you don't have a SINGLE motor you can borrow to test the controller? what are you building that controller for if you ain't got a motor?

Well when I first started transferring the schematic I still had my greyborg, and lived in Melbourne where E-bike contacts were vast and finding parts was easy. Before I left Melbourne I sold my greyborg and I'm down to just my BBS02 downhill bike.

Now that I have moved to Cairns, it's hard to find stuff. I called a local ebike supplier looking for a "cheap" motor (second hand or such) and he tried to sell me a $1700 EZI kit... hahahaha I tried not to laugh.

I wanted to build the controller.. just because.. but I do want to build my son (almost 2) an electric 4-wheeler. I'll use the controller for that. eventually.

I'll check about the halls. as indeed I want to be able to test with halls.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[liveforphysics]

Would you like if we pitched in and just sent you something a motor known to be hard to control?

Something with a 2t winding maybe?

 

[Animalector]

ok.. how about..

I buy this motor (in the link above).. if it has halls and test it.. and then "when" it works, you can send me a difficult motor to test with.

That way I don't feel guilty about accepting things from others that I cannot devote my time 100% to..

Back to work for now (real employment work)

Andy

 

[Animalector]

dammit I wrote up a post but lost it.

Anyways here's the highlights of the previous post... That Hub Motor did NOT have Hall sensors. Samd from Ballarat was able to hook me up with a SWXH to test with.

Spent another 1.5 hrs soldering here's the result.. need to test. but not now..

 

[Lebowski]

man that looks properly professional !

 

[voicecoils]

Looks nice!

I can also send up some motors you can use for controller testing, if needed just send me a PM.

 

[Futterama]

Yeah, that looks really nice!

2 questions:

1. Are you not a bit worried about the connection reliability of those connectors?

2. Why the extended use of tantalum capacitors? I have always used ceramic/MLCC but maybe this is not always the best choice?

 

[izeman]

looking SUPER pro! soldering looks like a lot of work.
did you plan to fix the upper pcb somehow? some spacers with screws to hold the two pcbs together?
i don't see the power output stages?! how are the connected to the 2 boards? can they be moved around freely? i already think about placing the pcbs inside my controller boxes i have available. height wise the two boards seem very low - could you please measure overall height needed and post the result?

 

[Animalector]

man that looks properly professional !

Thanks

1. Are you not a bit worried about the connection reliability of those connectors?

a little bit.. but I worked on mining equipment that gets shaken all day long like an exotic dancers butt cheeks.. and they just use this white silicone to supress the vibrations and stop them from coming apart...

2. Why the extended use of tantalum capacitors? I have always used ceramic/MLCC but maybe this is not always the best choice?

hmm good question, since I started in my first job I've always just used a Tant and a ceramic in parallel on all of the power pins of the micros and IC's. Plus SMD / SMT electrolytics are bigger. not as easy to get a small layout.

I can also send up some motors you can use for controller testing, if needed just send me a PM.

Thanks, but I bought this little one from Samd. if I need something else, I'll give you a PM

did you plan to fix the upper pcb somehow?

Unfortunately no.. there's no mounting holes. once I get the capacitors in there I was going to silicone it all up and it'll become a pretty well supported little brick

i don't see the power output stages?! how are the connected to the 2 boards

I haven't done them yet. maybe tomorrow afternoon before i come home from work. They will be connected to the driver board by twisted Bat+ and Bat- wires.. or perhaps just straight pieces, I haven't fully decided yet, but I can put them as far away or as close as I can. I've got shielded 3-wire so might use that for the signal interconnects (gate drive and current sensor feedback.) but I want to keep those relatively short. this part of the build will need a bit of fiddling to get a good solution..

More updates to follow..

Andy

 

[izeman]

i don't see the power output stages?! how are the connected to the 2 boards

I haven't done them yet. maybe tomorrow afternoon before i come home from work. They will be connected to the driver board by twisted Bat+ and Bat- wires.. or perhaps just straight pieces, I haven't fully decided yet, but I can put them as far away or as close as I can. I've got shielded 3-wire so might use that for the signal interconnects (gate drive and current sensor feedback.) but I want to keep those relatively short. this part of the build will need a bit of fiddling to get a good solution..

can the two boards be separated from each other? i mean it's obvious, as there are those 10pin headers to plug and unplug, but i mean signal wise? can i use a 10pin extension? it will be much easier to staple the two big boards and screw them to the bottom and top of the controller box, and move the small daughter board next to it, or as a sandwich filling in between the both of them. total height available should be 3cm. could it be possible to stack it like that?:

 

[cycborg]

You should always put a pencil or something in your photos to remind us how awesomely compact these are.

Great progress. I'm glad you got hold of a motor - it's undersized for this controller, but it should be great for testing the basic functionality, except for regen. High power / low inductance can wait for now.

 

[Animalector]

you can easily solder wires to the 10-pin footprints and run the CPU board wherever you like..

likewise for the FET board. it's connected by 3 sets of Bat+ and Bat- supply wires and 3 sets of Gate drive and 3 sets of current sensor wires for feedback to the driver pcb.

what I was thinking of doing was directly soldering the CPU to the driver and removing the headers. this will be more reliable, and give a very low profile.. BUT still have to mount the capacitors somewhere. I'll have a fiddle with the FET board at lunch time and post a photo..

 

[Animalector]

You should always put a pencil or something in your photos to remind us how awesomely compact these are

hahaha I did I just didn't post the photos. the ones above were more pretty.

 

[izeman]

i just measured the inside height of the standard infineon cases. they are 37mm high, 78mm wide, and 15cm long (for a 12fet) and 3cm more for every 3fets.

 

[Animalector]

hmmm.. thinking thinking thinking...

 

[Lebowski]

how about putting the 2 power supply inductors on the bottom of the controller board ? is an easy 5 mm ?

 

[izeman]

what about shorting the 10pin headers or replacing them by direct soldered pins? the headers waste at least 5mm.

 

[izeman]

another question: is this a MICRO or MINI usb connector? i will need to order an angled extension wire to access it when installed in the box.

 

[Animalector]

how about putting the 2 power supply inductors on the bottom of the controller board

Yep.. along with other components.. that's for the next layout (if there will be one.)

what about shorting the 10pin headers or replacing them by direct soldered pins? the headers waste at least 5mm

Yep again.. but don't forget the Caps.. we need to get a good amount of farads in there... Oh and it's a mini USB. it sits proud of the board.. so it is accessible through an enclosure. but yeah you can buy right angle mini usb adapters..



I'm thinking again about the +Bat and -Bat bus bars... easy solution will be to use a standoff like this:

but I am unsure of the current handling.. I might end up just soldering in bare copper. I tried to cut and strip some insulated battery wire today but it's too tight, and the threaded standoffs will make assembly much more practical.

I'll finish soldering up the FET board this weekend and that will allow me to fiddle more realistically.

Andy

 

[izeman]

i don't get what you would want to do with the threaded cutoff.
those are made of steel so they have a very high resistance (at least compared to copper). why don't you use solid copper wire 2.5mm2 or 4mm2? you can get them at your local hardware store. here 4mm2 is used to supply power from the curb to the house and 2.5mm2 for eg the oven or stove.
but maybe i'm not understanding what you want to acchieve, so please excuse me if this sounds like a stupid idea

@usb: this should do it: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/v3-to-v8-90-degree-turn-converted-head-mini-USB-female-revolution-micro-USB-phone-adapter/1244008_2043489432.html

 

[izeman]

how about putting the 2 power supply inductors on the bottom of the controller board ? is an easy 5 mm ?

wouldn't they hit the (not yet installed) caps?