Mid engine - or rear engine for mountain bike?

Fuzzynuts

100 µW
Joined
Jan 20, 2024
Messages
8
Location
Yorkshire
Hey guys -

How come most builds are rear engine hubs?
Surely a mid range engine would offer better balance?
The suron and talaria are some of the better e bikes out there for off roading, surely my first build should be built around that idea. My useage will be dirt roads/gravel well beaten paths with some regular paths.
(i did search for this answer but google is pulling up nothing much)
cheers.
 
There's a lot of discussion of middrives vs hubmotors, in various ways. Some of it is in the lists below

There's more but the search engine at present isn't able to sort things well enough to make a simple list, and even those will have some non-relevant results.

There's also specific build threads (some in the list above) that discuss the pros and cons for their usage.

What is "best" comes down to your specific usage scenario, riding style, weather and terrain and riding conditions, budget (both initial and for maintenance and repairs), willingness and ability to DIY and to maintain, legal considerations, etc.
 
If you find you have specifc questions related to your needs, feel free to post them here, but we'd need to know all of that to give you usefully-specific feedback. :)
 
Hey, yeah im nearing my choice for first build - but everytime i do i gotta take in a lot of info. I can see why this stuff is complex to a degree for novie builders. Its like - do you even ohms law with a calculator. 😬
 
Mostly you don't need to know actual electronics. It helps when troubleshooting, and if you want some custom setup that isn't available as a kit or whatever.

How deep you have to dive in depends on your usages and preferences and conditions; the less picky you are about how things work and the less strenuous the usage and conditions, the less you have to know.

The more specific or customized you want it's operation to be, and the harder it will have to work to do the job you have for it, the more you should know to be sure you get what you want and need. :)
 
If you find you have specifc questions related to your needs, feel free to post them here, but we'd need to know all of that to give you usefully-specific feedback. :)

Hey man - i think im siding with a pit bike style frame for first build.
Id buy a brand new bike such as this - then buy batteries here, plus engine and kit.
How hard will it be to modfiy the TB3 frame from welsh pit bikes to have a mid engine electric motor?
Koz i was i was lookign and the go to thing seems to be a razor 650 which is an awful frame IMO with poor suspension on stock, then applying an expsnesive kit that costs 1500 almost. I don t understand how the chinese at least havnt just put together a frame with a mid engine that can do 45mph, at around 1000-1500 price.
They also do a an E-pit bike but they are small framed and on stock they are quite underwhelming - but in thory it should be an easier midifcation to get a bike that actually rides decent lmao.

So my petrol pit bike to e bike idea do yo think its feasable -if i got stealth ride, then im happy.
 
Well, you *can* convert "anything" to "anything", if you have enough DIY ability, time, and money, but first we'll need to establish what you really want to do:

Where do you want to ride that? If it's just as stated in the first post, offroad or dirt roads, etc., then you can probably ignore the first two paragraphs below.

If you are trying to be an electric bicycle (the forum you're posting in) on the roads, neither the pit-bike look nor the 45MPH speed are bicycle-like, so there's about zero chance of "stealth". If you want stealth, it's going to have to look like a bicycle and be used as one. You'd have to check your local regulations for what's actually allowed whereever you are, unless you want to lose your ride to LEO action if they do that sort of thing there.

If you're looking for something to ride as a motorcycle (which both the look and the speed suggest) on or offroad, you're going to have to check the local laws for what's allowed to be converted and ridden that way--some places the laws are pretty lax, some much more restrictive.

As for whether you could do what you want (regardless of legality) for the price you're after, that depends on the conditions you want to ride under--terrain, weather, road (or offroad) surfaces, the weight of the system plus rider and anything else being carried, and the speed and range you want out of it under each of those conditions. The motor and trip simulators at ebikes.ca can help you guesstimate how much power it will take, under your specific conditions, which will let you then guesstimate how big a motor, controller, and battery you'll need to do the job you want the system to do for you.

You'll have to sit down and work out exactly what you mean by "rides decent". If you don't quantify that, you can't be sure of getting the right parts to make that happen. Same for any other performance requirements. :)

You can always just throw more power at it, but that takes more motor, controller, and battery, and those all take more money (and more space and weight).

As for the prebuilt cheap stuff's cost vs abilities, there is a minimum amount of stuff you have to use to accomplish something, and that has a minimum cost. You can use cheaper stuff, but that usually means less capability, less longevity, or less quality, and at some point it's just not enough to accomplish the something.

Sometimes, if you have enough time and patience, you can find used parts that will do what's needed for much less cost than new, as long as you already know what you're looking for (and at). Batteries are one of the hardest parts as they're the most complex and the most expensive for something that can actually perform as needed for as long as needed.

If you go with the PB frame you're linking to, ditching the ICE, you may be able to use one of the bolt-on motor/gearbox units, but you'd have to check that the mounting points and gear output match what you need. Here's a couple of random links from a google search; I don't have any info about either one or their sellers, but there are many similar or identical units available from many places. You'd have to find one with a motor big enough to do the job you need it to do; I think these say 1000w so they're probably not big enough for the speed you're after (definitely not on hills or common offroad conditions):
 
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First build by the mountain bike frame measure everything out make sure your battery your controller and even your hub motor will fit ditch the pit bike idea.
Just get a good quality battery not too small not too cheap and not too not knowing what's inside Chinese knockoff.
 
Leanring quite a bit now - thanks guys.
Been watching videos on watts, amps, voltage today to learn more.

So guys this little gem landed in the UK a few weeks ago its the titan X (i know cheesy names lol)


This has every thing i need at its stock setting - however i will upgrade it, the guy in the vid is like you guys pretty knowledgeable says the max he would take it to is 80amps - so does that mean id need a new controller plus battery upgrades - if im to upgrade to 80amps?

Would just a controller upgrade improve performance?
I know if i want more power - as in accelration top speed the controller can help that - if i want more distance i need a bigger battery? A 60v battery is about right for this.
 
You want to know what's inside that battery besides 60 volts. I don't want to hear their Tesla cells that's almost a dead giveaway. He might say Samsung , Panasonic ect.
Samsung 18650 and the model number like Samsung 35e. Or ? And we will tell you if the batteries good enough for a 60 amp 80 amp 100 amp controller. Now remember you can put 60 volts and 200 amps in that motor. Till it melts. So what motor does it have and we could tell you how long and how many watts you can put on it before it melts hills melt motors sand melts motors mud melts motors.
What can you tell us about the stock controller ?
Find this out before you buy and see if anyone else is bought one in the review section ?
Anyway .63 x 35amps = 2,100 Watts I'm guessing.
 
The controller can only give you more power if the battery can supply it, *and* the conditions you're using it under require more power to overcome, and the motor draws that power under those conditions.

I recommend experimenting with the simulator at ebikes.ca to see the relationships between things; there's some instructions there but it will take playing around with it to see what it's showing you and how they relate.
 
You want to know what's inside that battery besides 60 volts. I don't want to hear their Tesla cells that's almost a dead giveaway. He might say Samsung , Panasonic ect.
Samsung 18650 and the model number like Samsung 35e. Or ? And we will tell you if the batteries good enough for a 60 amp 80 amp 100 amp controller. Now remember you can put 60 volts and 200 amps in that motor. Till it melts. So what motor does it have and we could tell you how long and how many watts you can put on it before it melts hills melt motors sand melts motors mud melts motors.
What can you tell us about the stock controller ?
Find this out before you buy and see if anyone else is bought one in the review section ?
Anyway .63 x 35amps = 2,100 Watts I'm guessing.
Thanks dude - ill find this out today.
 
The controller can only give you more power if the battery can supply it, *and* the conditions you're using it under require more power to overcome, and the motor draws that power under those conditions.

I recommend experimenting with the simulator at ebikes.ca to see the relationships between things; there's some instructions there but it will take playing around with it to see what it's showing you and how they relate.
cool.
 
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