Motor or controller issue? E Trike 8000 watt hub

[Y432]

hi,

I purchased this 3 wheeled e trike from someone who ordered it online and paid a mechanic to build it.

Unfortunately, the mechanic installed the Parking brake backwards. So, upon purchase, i accidentally had the parking brake in the OFF position, which really means on, and after about 3 minutes of driving i started to smell a burning smell and then all power to the wheel shut down and i had to pull over on the side of the road and tow this back to my place.

So, Obviously, i made a few mistakes here. One, i drove it with the parking brake on after I already knew it was in the wrong position. Oops.

Two, I didnt notice that there was resistance or something wrong when i was driving, even though the setup felt a little off. Because it was my first time taking it out on a highway i had no idea what normal was suppossed to feel like.

Now im in the proess of deciding what to do to fix it.

My thoughts, not knowing that much about e bikes, is that the resistance caused by the parking brake on the rear single wheel was enough to at 30-40mph burn out the motor completely to the point where it needs to be replaced.

2nd option is that the controller was burned out and needs to be replaced and the wheel is fine.

3rd option, the motor overheated, and then the controller shut down the rear wheel. However ever since this happened i cannot get anything on the trike to work. The battery will still charge fine, and the key will turn the system on via the dashboard panel, however no power will ever touch the wheel.

Do you guys think i need to replace the motor hub, the controller, or is it possible there is a reset function that needs to be hit on the controller to restart the system?

Parking brake is a clamp for the disc brake on the rear wheel, and I probaby drove a mile and smelled burning about halfway through before the entire system shut down.

I've attached some photos, and sincrely appreciate your help.
I'm not very mechanically inclinded and dont have any e bike experience, however ive spent about 20 hours reading about how all this stuff works so its not my first time

controller is a APT 181203001
Im not sure the exact model of the wheel, but its about 9" across and 8000 watts i beleive

I also somehow have misplaced the charging cable that plugs into the receptical on the bike for charging. Im not work exactly what the head is, but i attached the charger (black with a fan) and the receptical

 

[E-HP]

First thing I'd do is a sniff test, to see if the controller or anything else smells burnt.
Do you have a digital multimeter? For testing, you could start by measuring the phase to phase and phase to ground resistance of the motor (the three fat conductors) when disconnected from the controller to see if you have any shorts. If so, I'd probably get a new motor. If there are no shorts, then I'd check the hall sensors (the thin wires going to the motor); there a several posts on the forum on how to perform the test. (the hall sensors usually fry before the motor windings, but the phase wire test for shorting is easier). If the motor checks out, then you need to move on to the controller. A similar test can be performed on the phase wires from the controller to test of shorted MOSFETs. Changing those could be a pain, but not as much as rewinding a motor, so if you have soldering skills you could perform that repair.

 

[amberwolf]

With all power off, when you try to turn the motor, is it hard to turn? WHen disconnected from the controller, does it get easy to turn?

If the answers are Yes and No, then the motor and/or it's wiring are damaged and shorting togehter internally. This often also damages the controller (see below).

If the answers are Yes and Yes, then the motor may be ok, but the controller probably has blown FETs; it's easier to replace the whole controller than to fix it (because it isn't usually *just* the FETs that blew, drive circuitry can fail too).

If the answers are No and No it could be something as simple as a blown fuse to the controller's motor drive system (though it might still get power to it's brain depending on how the wiring was designed).

 

[Y432]

First thing I'd do is a sniff test, to see if the controller or anything else smells burnt.
Do you have a digital multimeter? For testing, you could start by measuring the phase to phase and phase to ground resistance of the motor (the three fat conductors) when disconnected from the controller to see if you have any shorts. If so, I'd probably get a new motor. If there are no shorts, then I'd check the hall sensors (the thin wires going to the motor); there a several posts on the forum on how to perform the test. (the hall sensors usually fry before the motor windings, but the phase wire test for shorting is easier). If the motor checks out, then you need to move on to the controller. A similar test can be performed on the phase wires from the controller to test of shorted MOSFETs. Changing those could be a pain, but not as much as rewinding a motor, so if you have soldering skills you could perform that repair.

wow, thank you. this is a bit over my head but i feel like i'm understanding.

1. so run the multimeter on a 'phase to phase' and 'phase to ground' to check for shorts.
2. check the hall sensors - thin wires going to the motor - find a post on the forum to learn how to do this.
3. if motor is good, look at the controller. Run test on the phase wires from the controller (to the motor?) to test for shorted (MOSFETS?)
4. changing those is possible with soldering skills... or replace the controller altogether?

Super grateful for this. I feel like i need a local electric bike guru to walk me through this, but i could start with getting. digital multimeter reading i suppose

What is a MOSFET?

 

[Y432]

With all power off, when you try to turn the motor, is it hard to turn? WHen disconnected from the controller, does it get easy to turn?

If the answers are Yes and No, then the motor and/or it's wiring are damaged and shorting togehter internally. This often also damages the controller (see below).

If the answers are Yes and Yes, then the motor may be ok, but the controller probably has blown FETs; it's easier to replace the whole controller than to fix it (because it isn't usually *just* the FETs that blew, drive circuitry can fail too).

If the answers are No and No it could be something as simple as a blown fuse to the controller's motor drive system (though it might still get power to it's brain depending on how the wiring was designed).

thank you so much for this!

1. With power off, try turning the wheel? correct? or do you mean the motor itself? It is capable of being rolled fairly easily, as in the motor/rear wheel isnt locked up, however i havent done a full on resistance test with the body raised off the ground to test for free spin capability.

You are suggesting to do this with the power off, and the mode in Neutral, as opposed to drive or reverse?

2.What is a FET?

3. I will need to run the test to determine if its a freespinning wheel easily with the power off, and same with the controller disconnected
If it were as simple as a bowl fuse in the controllers motor drive system, is that something i can simply open up the controller and find the fuse and replace easily? Currently it still turns on and receives electricity to the HUD


Thank you so much reply and consideration here

 

[amberwolf]

1. With power off, try turning the wheel? correct? or do you mean the motor itself? It is capable of being rolled fairly easily, as in the motor/rear wheel isnt locked up, however i havent done a full on resistance test with the body raised off the ground to test for free spin capability.

You are suggesting to do this with the power off, and the mode in Neutral, as opposed to drive or reverse?

If the power is off, and the motor is in the wheel, it doesn't matter what "gear" it's in, as that is all in the controller, done electronically.

You want to do this using your hand to spin the wheel, with wheel off ground so that you can be sure the resistance you feel is not the weight of the vehicle on the tire, etc.

The resistance to turning you will feel is significant, hard to miss, when doing it this way. It often doesn't feel smooth, but "coggy", as if it were catching regularly on something. The worse the short, the stronger this feeling is.

This test can be done before you do any of the other suggested tests, as it will narrow down where to start testing, and may eliminate having to do some of the tests.

2.What is a FET?

They're the electronic switches inside the controller box that send current to the motor to make it spin. They blow up when overloaded usually by shorting (connecting) things all the time instead of only on command.

3. I will need to run the test to determine if its a freespinning wheel easily with the power off, and same with the controller disconnected
If it were as simple as a bowl fuse in the controllers motor drive system, is that something i can simply open up the controller and find the fuse and replace easily? Currently it still turns on and receives electricity to the HUD

It's not usually in the controller, It's usually between the battery and the controller on the main thick cable from the battery--it could be in + or - but usually in + (which is usually red). The fuses in a system of the size you have are usually large and often bolt to the cabling, like these:

anl fuse - Google Search

A very few controllers have the fuse bolted to their casing, like this kelly: (the top one is a shunt, which you can ignore, the bottom is the fuse)

 

[E-HP]

i could start with getting. digital multimeter reading i suppose

What is a MOSFET?

It's a transistor used by these controllers to control current. They usually abbreviate it to FET in product descriptions, etc.

BTW when testing the phase to phase, both a short or open circuit would not be normal.

 

[amberwolf]

FWIW, if you use a normal multimeter to measure phases on a *motor*, it will read as a direct short no matter which way you read it, because the resistance is so low a normal meter can't measure it.

It's unlikely to read open circuit on any phase-to-phase *motor* test, as it's hard to actually burn open the windings that way (but not hard to burn their insulation off and short them together, causing it to be hard to turn). An open usually means a failed connection between the motor-controller connector plug and the wiring inside the motor, and that almost always is from physical damage to the axle-exit wiring of the motor from a crash, or a ripped-off connector, etc.


You *can* use a normal meter to read the phase-to-phase resistance of a *controller* that is not connected to a battery, but there's not really any need for this test yet--first see if there is a problem with the mechanical manual turning-resistance test. If you do have a problem that doesn't persist when the motor is not connected to the controller, then testing the controller will help you find which phase(s) are broken, but if you're not going to repair it (not really simple if you have no experience with this stuff) there's no need to do the test; it's fatally broken and you'd just replace the whole thing.

 

[Y432]

If the power is off, and the motor is in the wheel, it doesn't matter what "gear" it's in, as that is all in the controller, done electronically.

You want to do this using your hand to spin the wheel, with wheel off ground so that you can be sure the resistance you feel is not the weight of the vehicle on the tire, etc.

The resistance to turning you will feel is significant, hard to miss, when doing it this way. It often doesn't feel smooth, but "coggy", as if it were catching regularly on something. The worse the short, the stronger this feeling is.

This test can be done before you do any of the other suggested tests, as it will narrow down where to start testing, and may eliminate having to do some of the tests.



They're the electronic switches inside the controller box that send current to the motor to make it spin. They blow up when overloaded usually by shorting (connecting) things all the time instead of only on command.



It's not usually in the controller, It's usually between the battery and the controller on the main thick cable from the battery--it could be in + or - but usually in + (which is usually red). The fuses in a system of the size you have are usually large and often bolt to the cabling, like these:

anl fuse - Google Search

View attachment 338648

A very few controllers have the fuse bolted to their casing, like this kelly: (the top one is a shunt, which you can ignore, the bottom is the fuse)

View attachment 338647

Amberwolf,

Again, thank you So much!

This has given me hope, or at least a place to start.

I will get the trike lifted and check for the free spinning resistance. You say that it is meant to feel coggy, kinda like certain points require more force to spin intermittently around the rotation? So, is this true even if the wheel / 'motor' is in perfect working condition?

Your suggestion i see is to try sensing the resistance and 'coggyness' of the wheel, and then to disconnect the controller to see if there is a change?

Or am i correct to assume that if the wheel ' motor' were working perfectly with no shorts, that it would rotate smoothly, completely, the entire way with no coggyness?

your saying the worse the short, the more coggy...

Safe to say, if it is super coggy, then its likely i will need to replace the entire motor and wheel?

 

[Y432]

Another question or two,

What is the name of this charger cable and where would you recommend ordering another one?
it is the 4 hole black one

 

[Y432]

How do i determine which Wheel HUB Motor and Controller have been used on the bike for replacements?

I've tried emailing a few of the suppliers on alibaba without great results. And I've been all over the QS website looking for the right wheel hub motor replacement to see how much it would cost.

The controller seems to be an APT model, but I cant quite seem to figure out which one. I've attached photos of the controller with all numbers i could find, and the wheel.

Seems to be a 14x9inch wheel, and was told it was 8000 Watts, but how can i tell?

Same with the controller, I've looked up all the numbers i could find. It looks like a
96Volt / 300AMP controller with the numbers APT 181203001 but wasnt able to find that anywhere online

on the wheel the serial LQ10000WKB0004

 

[Y432]

It seems like this is a possibility for the rear wheel hub, but dont know how to tell?

Im bassing this off the spacing im seeing around the brake on mine and the rim space to the wheel

16inch 8000w Scooter Motor for high speed electric bike, motorcycle and scooter

The bike, motorcycle and scooter powered by this motor can reach speed 120km/h (75 mph), and can run at DC 48V to 96V.

www.qsmotor.com

 

[Y432]

and this is looking like a possibility for the controller, or at least what is recommended to be paired with the above wheel.

APT 96600 Sine wave FOC Controller CAN-BUS For 8000W 96V QS Hub Motor with Sliver Color​

but it also looks different in the sense that on mine the blue yellow red wires come out the skinny thing side, not the wide side. I imagine this design could have changed over time though or is irrelevant

it seems to have the proper 96V and 200-300AMP rating

 

[m3vuv]

It's a transistor used by these controllers to control current. They usually abbreviate it to FET in product descriptions, etc.

BTW when testing the phase to phase, both a short or open circuit would not be normal.

a mosfet is a metal oxide field effect transistor.