MadRhino
100 GW
That frame battery box can hold twice as much. That is the good part of it. The bad part of it is poor suspension design, and weigh.
My 60mph ebike build
- Thread starter Newagebike
- Start date
Newagebike
10 W
Why do you say it has poor suspension design? The rear shock has a ton of adjustment positions for practically any rear shock. The Head tube will take straight or tapered forks. I will only be riding it on the street, sidewalks...ect no off road dirt tracks.MadRhino said:
The frame weighs only 22lbs that is light especially when you are talking about the power to weigh ratio which is everything when is come to speed.
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
MadRhino
100 GW
The front doesn't matter, you buy the fork that you want and can set steer angle with an angle set kit. The rear has a very primitive swingarm and no matter the shock that you buy, it will have a basic action without any deflection, nor progression. Yet, as you said you will ride on the street, and you will like it if you never knew better.
22 Lbs is 10 too much IMO, and 10 lbs is a lot of effective power loss. You are right talking about power to weight ratio. Now atop of a heavy frame and heavy battery, add motorcycle wheels and tires, a few components on the heavy side to avoid high cost... Then your horse becomes a cow, and she does eat a lot for every mile. :wink:
22 Lbs is 10 too much IMO, and 10 lbs is a lot of effective power loss. You are right talking about power to weight ratio. Now atop of a heavy frame and heavy battery, add motorcycle wheels and tires, a few components on the heavy side to avoid high cost... Then your horse becomes a cow, and she does eat a lot for every mile. :wink:
litespeed
100 kW
Yes the frame isn't cutting edge design on rear suspension but it works. It does have tons of room for batteries, wiring and anything else you want to stick in its belly. You won't have a bunch of bags or boxes stuck all over the bike with awkward weight distribution to worry about either.
I would love to have a progressive link suspension on this style bike but don't want to one off a bike. I built a Giant DH and while the rear suspension was better the lack of triangle space forced me to try hanging batteries off the rear....which then wouldn't stand on a kick stand. Then tried the batteries in a box on the front forks.....talk about heavy steering. Back pack wasn't ideal with 24s3p of lipo bricks and always had me feel like I was falling backwards. I won't even get into the drop outs which I got to work using Doc's torque arms but would never compare to these cheap frames clamping dropouts for long term longevity with regen.
For those wanting a good platform to build a hub motor bike these are the best and easiest to build for the average do it yourself-er. Have the ability (fully equipped machine shop or a best friend that has one) to add a battery box to a cutting edge DH bike and devise a clamping dropout system then that would be your best bet. Time-cost-quality are the three things available.....you get to pick two unless your rich.
Back on subject 24s12p from Nkon for,
VTC5 2500mah cells would be about a grand for 30 peak capable amp cells.
Basically the Same price for HG2 3000mah cells that are 20 amp peak.
25R that are 2500 mah would be about $800 ish and are 20 amp peak.
There are a few others but you get the idea.
https://ru.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size.html
Just need to click and buy now. If your were close I'd help you build the pack.
Tom
I would love to have a progressive link suspension on this style bike but don't want to one off a bike. I built a Giant DH and while the rear suspension was better the lack of triangle space forced me to try hanging batteries off the rear....which then wouldn't stand on a kick stand. Then tried the batteries in a box on the front forks.....talk about heavy steering. Back pack wasn't ideal with 24s3p of lipo bricks and always had me feel like I was falling backwards. I won't even get into the drop outs which I got to work using Doc's torque arms but would never compare to these cheap frames clamping dropouts for long term longevity with regen.
For those wanting a good platform to build a hub motor bike these are the best and easiest to build for the average do it yourself-er. Have the ability (fully equipped machine shop or a best friend that has one) to add a battery box to a cutting edge DH bike and devise a clamping dropout system then that would be your best bet. Time-cost-quality are the three things available.....you get to pick two unless your rich.
Back on subject 24s12p from Nkon for,
VTC5 2500mah cells would be about a grand for 30 peak capable amp cells.
Basically the Same price for HG2 3000mah cells that are 20 amp peak.
25R that are 2500 mah would be about $800 ish and are 20 amp peak.
There are a few others but you get the idea.
https://ru.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size.html
Just need to click and buy now. If your were close I'd help you build the pack.
Tom
Newagebike
10 W
MadRhino said:
The funny thing here is that in order to have what I want I have to use a stronger frame and it is wise to use moto wheels and tires at the weight for my use. 10lbs in the discussion of saving weight is a moot point as I am already a light guy at 175-180 so there goes about 30lbs of weight saving in my mind...LOL
I think once you move into the eCylce range, this what I call it, the frame/motor/battery move you into the 120lbs excepted range (total bike weight) that was set by Stealth IMHO. Now it is all about getting under that 120 which I think is very do able.As for shock angle the options of type and angle are at a min because battery/controller space are needed. Give and take and ones goals have to work together to make what you want with what there is to work with.
Newagebike
10 W
litespeed said:
Well said, I have been reading on the subject of ebikes for a couple of weeks and IMHO there are 3 ways to go.
1: Slap a small motor on your bike to ease the pedaling.
2: Push a bike frame to it's extreme.
3: Build a ebike from an enduro type purposely built frame.
I am very confident I can build the battery, www.ebikeschool.com really opened the door to the process and understanding, I ordered the guys book and am looking forward to reading it.
One I did find out is that there is a battery case that is made to put in the Enduro frame, it steel so I guess they have it as an option for safety here is a link.http://www.enduroebike.com/sale-5907988-electric-48v-60v-72v-battery-case-for-electric-enduro-e-bike.html
I do not know how much it weighs but the question I have is it worth the weight to have the added safety and convenience of a removable battery case?
MadRhino
100 GW
I do agree that in order to use a big battery made of round cells, you have to build on that kind of frame. There are some better than others, but all of them are about the same design and they make it easy to build a long range commuter. Don't believe it is stronger and safer because it is heavier. That is a myth, even a joke when it is Chinese. Yet, it is only the begining of them and they will improve to become a good design light weight motorcycle.
Newagebike
10 W
Safety in the build is all about common sense IMHO, it has to do with all the parts and not just one.
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
MadRhino
100 GW
On 2 wheels, building safety is in handling and braking first. Second comes proper suspension, for a wheel that had lost contact with the ground on a bump has no traction, handling nor braking anymore. There is a list of safety features I could make, but nothing about weight. Weight is a compromise that you accept to build the features that you consider a priority.
Newagebike
10 W
MadRhino said:
I do not think I understand you or you are misunderstanding me?
Weight is relivtive to the object and it's capibility.
For example a YZ 125 Dirt bike weighs wet about 200 lbs and 45 lbs of that weight is the engine and another 10 lbs is gas right in the center of the frame which is 55lbs.
My eCycle build will weigh in at 120 or less. The battery/controller will weigh in around 28 or less, that is a difference of 27lbs or so.
The point being is just because the bike is heavier does not mean it will not handle good or brake.
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
MadRhino
100 GW
You misunderstood me. I had said already, that it is the right kind of frame for the batteries and components that you plan. I saod too that you will like it riding on the street.
What I meant in my last post, is that the extra weight is the result of a compromise for what you plan to build. This is OK, but in no way should it be considered a factor of strength or safety. If performance and safety were your priorities, then it wouldn't a good compromise.
Then, if you want to compare with motorcycles, your plan will make about the weight of a trial motorcycle. Looking at both side by side, will make clear what I meant. We build with requirements, and we have to accept compromises to meet those requirements. To make good choices, we need to be conscious of what those compromises will be.
What I meant in my last post, is that the extra weight is the result of a compromise for what you plan to build. This is OK, but in no way should it be considered a factor of strength or safety. If performance and safety were your priorities, then it wouldn't a good compromise.
Then, if you want to compare with motorcycles, your plan will make about the weight of a trial motorcycle. Looking at both side by side, will make clear what I meant. We build with requirements, and we have to accept compromises to meet those requirements. To make good choices, we need to be conscious of what those compromises will be.
Newagebike
10 W
Ok cool.
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
Newagebike
10 W
Can you put dual disk brakes on the front wheel?
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
MadRhino
100 GW
Yes you can, but only with a DNM fork so far. Zelena Vozila does sell a DNM fork that has dual caliper mounts and a wheel hub that has disc mounts on both sides.
litespeed
100 kW
https://em3ev.com/shop/dnm-usd-8-front-fork-black-latest-version-dual-disc/
Not sure who has the hub at the moment.
Tom
Not sure who has the hub at the moment.
Tom
Newagebike
10 W
I have been looking into battery types and I ran across these (link below) Sanyo NCR20700B 4000mAh 15A Flat Top batteries. They are a little bigger but pack in 4000mah which means my 86V 28ah pack @ 24s 7p would only be 168 batteries bring cost to 1,200 with less space used up.
Putting info into the ebike motor simulator, they do not have the QS 205 H50, I used the Clyte TC40100 motor and 20" wheel. It will get me what I want easily. Top speed of 42 with a 28 mile range. At half throttle it goes up to 75 miles and this is all with a 703 max rpm. My QS 205 50H I am thinking of a KV of 17.1 which will bring up the rpm to 1275.
Opinions please.
https://www.imrbatteries.com/sanyo-ncr20700b-4000mah-15a-flat-top-battery/
Putting info into the ebike motor simulator, they do not have the QS 205 H50, I used the Clyte TC40100 motor and 20" wheel. It will get me what I want easily. Top speed of 42 with a 28 mile range. At half throttle it goes up to 75 miles and this is all with a 703 max rpm. My QS 205 50H I am thinking of a KV of 17.1 which will bring up the rpm to 1275.
Opinions please.
https://www.imrbatteries.com/sanyo-ncr20700b-4000mah-15a-flat-top-battery/
MadRhino
100 GW
Kv 17.1 is very fast, and will require a small wheel. Your simulator results were for a 20" bicycle wheel, meaning ~16" motorcycle wheel. Very fast motors also do require lots of Amps, meaning big and heavy controller and even more batteries. For your target speed, in a 18" motorcycle wheel, I wouldn't choose higher than 12 KV.
kingjamez
100 W
My QS205 50H 3.5T (~13KV) in a 17" Moto Wheel on 20S in an EEB frame goes faster than I care to without enabling field weakening. I was worried about the maximum speed and kicked myself for quite a while on only going with a 17" wheel instead of a 19", but now that I've got it running, I personally am not interested in going any faster.
I should have actual MPH numbers shortly, I'm still getting it all finished up, but my test runs have been "exciting".
-Jim
I should have actual MPH numbers shortly, I'm still getting it all finished up, but my test runs have been "exciting".
-Jim
Newagebike
10 W
Newagebike said:
Those batteries are 15A so that should be tons of amperage? I am looking into controllers could you recommend one? My thinking is that a higher rpm with smaller wheels while be easier on the motor but then there is there Torque/Speed ratio?
Newagebike
10 W
kingjamez said:
How fast do you want the bike to go, what type of torque do you want?
kingjamez
100 W
Newagebike said:
Those are kind of ethereal questions.
I want it to go "real" fast, and have "lot's" of torque....
It has enough for me not to want more of either. What I want is likely different from you.
-Jim
MadRhino
100 GW
Newagebike said:
10p would let you pull 150A, maybe not too long before they start to heat. Little numbers for a 17 KV motor, that would definitely prefer 15p of those cells. Also, a 17 Kv motor is really happy in a 13" wheel, and the larger the wheel the harder it will be on controllers.
Newagebike
10 W
kingjamez said:
The reason I ask is because I want to use the same motor, I want 45mph easy and and faster but 45mph and be able to accelerate with the cars easy. Can you do this with your setup? Thanks.
Newagebike
10 W
MadRhino said:
If we look at these kv number for the QS 205 H50, there are even higher ones than these. If I am going for 72/86V - 28ah and you multiply the V with the kv which kv will help with my needs in your opinion?
Model___Kv
7T______6.3
6T______7.3
5.5T_____8.1
5T______9.0
4T______11.5
3.5T_____13.3
3T______15.6
MadRhino
100 GW
45 Mph is ridiculous with this motor. You need a very slow Kv then. I am above 70 Mph with a 11.6 Kv.
You change target speed and wheel size, so we don't know anymore what you need.
You change target speed and wheel size, so we don't know anymore what you need.
