My own battery store and battery repair shop: ( Goodboybattery

[leffex]

So time to start planing to open one, he?

My own battery store and battery repair shop: ( Goodboybattery

Yeah, I have some idéas so that will make it happen and some people with very high and capable skills I can do some co-operation with

Wish me luck.

So first out is a place to build the batteries like a bench and some drawers and after that a place to relocate to do the business and set it up on a location. The need for space is very minimal indeed.

To make batteries is a science in itself. One may dig down and get some experience before starting or there may be a very big and high costs that will kill your business pretty soon. That's why I say: Do you research and get the experience first. The more the better. Or you will be eaten alive fore sure.

The other part is to do repairs and that may be profitable in one sense but it may also be very smal jobs that you can't sustain any business on. Rather they'll give you something to do but won't give you any money. They could be freebies but those we really don't want to give out for free do we? So a set fee of 50 euro or dollars for a trial and error repair attempt could be the sign that they really do mean business and want your help and your services.

The death of businesses. I say: No, thank you. I say: Long live the businesses and much success to the smart and ambitions ones out there.

May the force be with you!

 

[JackFlorey]

Good luck! Hope you find partners that work out.

 

[DaLanMan]

First thing is to start looking for an insurance company, because after Samsung, business are *very* touchy about batteries.

 

[leffex]

First thing is to start looking for an insurance company, because after Samsung, business are *very* touchy about batteries.

You could solve it by having the heaven as your ceiling

Yes, of course insurance is included or is required by law I think when renting as a business.

Why I write is that I want it to become a reality someday and this will fasten that development.

Life is usually everything at once.

 

[DaLanMan]

Oh, I wasn't trying to be a crunk...

My first company was a consulting firm, most dangerous thing was papercuts.
Then we added engineering consultants... in transport (trains) and metallurgy and mechanical engineering.. whole bunch more insurance stuff to deal with, but my adoptive father was an insurance guy, never had any problems when he handled it all.

Later I opened up a business that included things like welders, and smelters etc... I had the place rented with the basal policy, but it had the caveat, no equipment from a list (that was basically a list of the things I had to use) until insurance is in place.

This is after my father passed. So I was for the first time in my life navigating a very complicated policy without anyone on my side that knew what they were actually doing.
It took me like 8 weeks, 2 agencies and even with that, a lot of calls to my dad's old biz partner. Insurance is slow, irritating and can be a business killer if you get into the wrong policy.

As a guy that is in his (counts on fingers) 15th business. My best advice, watch out for the little things, they are deadly.

 

[nicobie]

I'd listen to this guy

I've been in the same situation and did what he did with good results.

 

[leffex]

Yes. The more problems and faults and failed businesses or successful with hard work and solutions hitting the sky. I'd say you do learn a lot from misstakes. I do read and find faults with many things. Even branded ones do have faults allthough I don't always pinpoint the exact electrical circuit or component that is faulty it can be plain in the open on the world wide web.

Among a few projects and improvements on some battery styles I do. I try to figure out this one that one cell group for some kind of reason heats up more than the rest and then turns worse and worse until in a downward spiral to zero whilst the rest of the groups stay high and in line with normal operation parameterers.

My idea around this is if I should put a firewall or isolator between the cell group that is affected and the heater inside the battery that is the BMS that become up to 60 degres celsius at its heatsink. An other idea I have is to fill it with silicon material either on the bms heated side or at the lone cell group that is affected as a firewall or all surrounded.

The layout is 10s4p:
3x3x3x1

I'm investigating currently and doing temperature measurements and such only. I have not yet done any design changes as it is working pretty well but I know it can be better. If you have any ideas they're more than welcome.

 

[Hillhater]

Be wary of emerging concerns over Lithium battery fires, and potential regulation of vendors and repairers.
There could be some serious problems ahead for “uncertified” vendors ?

 

[leffex]

Be wary of emerging concerns over Lithium battery fires, and potential regulation of vendors and repairers.
There could be some serious problems ahead for “uncertified” vendors ?

Yes. I sure need to look into those details regarding that.

There are no vertification standards to my knowledge but I will look that up as well.

There are easy steps to rid yourself away from a lot of risk and that is not to store shady stuff or unknown batteries. Store them correctly and in a safe place and don't charge unatended.

Then that solves the problem 99 times out of a hundred as to minimizing risk to where it belongs. In the zeros.

I can write you a book but I try to keep it short.

 

[amberwolf]

There are no vertification standards to my knowledge but I will look that up as well.

Might not be right this second, but a glance at various news stories recently will show you that is likely about to change (is already doing so in some places).

IIRC there are threads discussing the recenly banned UK sales of UPP battery packs, and some places in the USA are creating legislation to require UL certifications, etc. Don't recall the other stuff I've seen posted, and I haven't verified any of it.

 

[leffex]

I haven't heard about it more than the UPP brand was a little so so. So in essence they have banned two of their batteries in a triangular shape at 48v 20ah and 28ah. Pretty big batteries and not the mainstream regular customer type. Also it seems that they didn't have any temperature sensor on these packs. Question is if that really would have mattered if the build quality "was" crap. I don't know about that. I have to see to make a judgment.

Battery passports for 2kw or larger batteries to trace cells and materials down the line. This was interessting. I recon I have read about it in the past and it may be good.

Also about battery chargers: If a charger is thrown by accident by the customer on the floor and it tears into pieces it shouldn't kill you while being connected to the wall. That test is a little funny but I do understand. Smarty JOE picking it up after it has fallen and getting killed but the chance of that is lower than winning 1 billion or becoming the next US president. The solution here is four screws.

 

[Mclewis1]

There are quite a few examples right now within North America where organizations are requiring UL 2271 certification for batteries coming on premise, with many more in the plannng/investigation phase. This inclludes private business who own their buildings, Condo owners, and rental/leasing companies.. Metrolinx (surface train public transport) in Toronto will soon (this spring) ban all ebikes and scooters without UL approved batteries.

I expect this summer we will see a flood of organizations following suit and Europe will be next. There could be legal challenges in a few situations but to me it doesn't look like this will change the tide of bans.

A small bespoke Lithium battery buisness would not be my first choice to start up right now.

 

[neptronix]

I'm sorry to say it, but Sweden will be the next place we see regulations that make producing batteries cost prohibitive. I would be surprised if no battery safety regulations existed there.

This would be a difficult segment of ebike business to get into without any significant upfront capital.

 

[leffex]

I'm sorry to say it, but Sweden will be the next place we see regulations that make producing batteries cost prohibitive. I would be surprised if no battery safety regulations existed there.

This would be a difficult segment of ebike business to get into without any significant upfront capital.

We have regulations and some companies and organisations add their own additionally to them. They also give out recommendations and other information. We have testing centers that buy and test items for functionallity and safety regulations.

I agree but if you know the business and you make quality stuff fast then you are in the forefront. That also includes pricing power. In essence price is dependent on demand. Low stock increases price oddly enough.

Yes, I like to use as small amount of capital as possible.

My wage could be rated at 50 per hour to hire if I build a battery. Usually I get more from other work. To be competetive you need to go down on wage or work faster which can affect quality to sustain a good price on the product you are making. So the product cost are: materials + time spent = total cost of product

 

[leffex]

There are quite a few examples right now within North America where organizations are requiring UL 2271 certification for batteries coming on premise, with many more in the plannng/investigation phase. This inclludes private business who own their buildings, Condo owners, and rental/leasing companies.. Metrolinx (surface train public transport) in Toronto will soon (this spring) ban all ebikes and scooters without UL approved batteries.

I expect this summer we will see a flood of organizations following suit and Europe will be next. There could be legal challenges in a few situations but to me it doesn't look like this will change the tide of bans.

A small bespoke Lithium battery buisness would not be my first choice to start up right now.

Yes, there are some limits like for ebikes and escooters on busses. For trains all bikes and ebikes are welcome if they can fit so no soffa ebike builds.

I think change will come but it is painfully slow. I'm sorry but that is the reality. Let's hope the new regulations rid the world of junk products. Those who we don't want. The firestarters.

Yes, I understand a business would be a lot of costs but say I work a day there per week. I team up with a guy or two who do the same and we get it going. When we like it and get our hands all dirty by all work landing on our heads from the sky we'll do it and hand in the cash and buy a place to sit and take it from there.

 

[Hillhater]

We have regulations and some companies and organisations add their own additionally to them.

The point several of us are making is that it seems possible that various governments are likely to impose controls on battery producers ,assemblers, retailers , or repair shops.
Some type of “licence” or certification approval may be introduced requiring business’s to meet certification requirements,.. not just product certification ! Think like Gas installers, Electricians, even Doctors !
Your own country will have its own system but may be forced to comply with international regulations.
Until there is more clarity of how that may be implimented, a start up in the Li battery business may be headed for a uncertain future.

 

[leffex]

The point several of us are making is that it seems possible that various governments are likely to impose controls on battery producers ,assemblers, retailers , or repair shops.
Some type of “licence” or certification approval may be introduced requiring business’s to meet certification requirements,.. not just product certification ! Think like Gas installers, Electricians, even Doctors !
Your own country will have its own system but may be forced to comply with international regulations.
Until there is more clarity of how that may be implimented, a start up in the Li battery business may be headed for a uncertain future.

Yes, I get all what you are saying and I thank you for the information even if I may not seem to reciprocate that response.

The current rules are that all low voltage appliances are free for all and the voltage level is a floating level but could be set to be 58,8v or it is around that level. If you make a battery above that level it is closing in on the gray zone area which is unknown and the higher you get the easier it is to rule the voltage to be of a high level. The high level need an electrician certificate or those kinds of education to legally do work and stuff. It could also be, I think implemented in a perspective of an assembly line where the person only needs to be certificated for what hen is doing

There're more rules of course but not specified to my knowledge. I will look into that for sure.

I think EV's and batteries are headed for a great future. But for myself I'm heading for a pessimistic future. No, I think it will be great as well but I would've liked it to be more positive than what I think it would be.

 

[DaLanMan]

The rules are as always at best a hindrance, at worst, complete insanity, however all things being equal, it is the same wheerever you go. I started a vape company because it was hands down the best path to cessation of smoking that has ever existed. More people quit with E-cigs than any harm was handed out.

But... Yeah, Sold the company just in time. Evidently the fun polics get all tishy when you do things they don't like.

Success comes when you ignore the chances of failure and trust in yourself to move ahead.

I suggest planning and proper preperations. I won't however tell you it won't workj.

The battery store we had in town had less inventory than wal-mart and he was all angry when he went belly up. I live on the edge of the Delta and we have to drive 40 miles to get a frigging boat battery.

 

[Mclewis1]

First of all I don't think anyone here wishes for a failure of anyone stepping up to provide quality batteries for ebikes or other devices. Some just wouldn't want to see anyone involved in a new business failure. Others maybe forward thinking enough to be concerned about new entries into a market that is currently getting a lot of "bad press" ... so basically a "proceed with caution" position.

The current realities are that rightly or wrongly a large number of businesses and other organizations are very concerned about battery fires on their premises. Insurance companies and lawyers are also generating a lot of visibility to the issue. This simply means that it's going to get harder and harder to sell non certified batteries, so from a business case perspective this likely means a shrinking not expanding market opportunity (and/or perhaps one very geographically oriented).

Then there is the concern about enforcing certification on the battery manufacturers. Here I see an increasing cost creating more problems for the business case. There is a quote in another thread Grin’s perspective of Ebike fires about getting new UL certifications for each low voltage battery type costing Grin $40k CAD ... again per battery in their portfolio. I think this would mean the need for quite a bit more up front/startup costs and dramatically change the timeline for any return on investment calculation. Then there could also be additional costs for new/different manufacturing based on new education/training and changes to material requirements and tooling.

I guess the hope here is just that leffex considers as much information as possible to make the best decision he/she can.

 

[leffex]

Yes, basically I had a virtual company 2012 selling ebikes but no bikes build, no space or products made. Still it would go bust fast even though it never saw the light. hehe.A little fun to think about it that way. Since then I should aquiere about 15-20 busts and then hopefully I'll have the Company that will lead to success. Alltough it is so much more and life and all takes a lot of our time as life also is something important to do because you can bust it there as well.

I do appreciate all the comments and future ones. How I think is even after some time has past I re-read eveything and catch small pieces I might have missed or didn't understand fully "at the time".

 

[leffex]

So from recent reviews of batteries that I've operated on there are many faults and some are even new which causes me big concerns what is really out there.

I don't think that these issues should even be there from the beginning. It would be like picking up a new car with a flat tire. I mean a workshop is not even needed to spot that and customers are not that stupid.

 

[neptronix]

That's exactly why regulations are coming

 

[amberwolf]

Some of the things people have posted here about batteries they've received from various places (or that came on bikes, etc) are worse and more obvious than the flat tire analogy--some are as bad as if the car is missing all it's doors, or has obvious gasoline pouring out of it somewhere waiting for a spark, etc.

 

[harrisonpatm]

Some of the things people have posted here about batteries they've received from various places (or that came on bikes, etc) are worse and more obvious than the flat tire analogy--some are as bad as if the car is missing all it's doors, or has obvious gasoline pouring out of it somewhere waiting for a spark, etc.

So, Boeing?

 

[leffex]

I would say to the above posts that my focus would be on starting a company and that the post here in this thread or that of all the the threads of endless sphere both includes advice from heaven and earth and even some from the depths of hell.