Andy R said:
It's been a great symbiotic relationship and I am very proud to be associated with all the forums that are part of our family of sites.
Not that it has anything directly to do with this thread, but which forums? (just so people can see what they're like, to get an idea of what might be intended in this currently-discussed changeover of ES)
So if the ads can be turned off, it seems the real issue is that someone is going to be trying to make a few bucks by building a better site around ES?
No, you might want to re-read a number of the posts that explain what the main problem is. It is not the making of the bucks, it is that the making of the bucks is coming off of work that many people have done for free, for the fun of it or for the furthering of knowledge itself, and not intended for sale. Certainly not intended to end up making money for companies that advertise on here, which is what it amounts to.
Certainly it's true that search engines that index this site and then display those results earn money off their ads on their own pages, and also true that the advertisers earn money because of click-thrus to their sites becuase of what is displayed on that search page, but it is not the same as doing it on ES itself, simply by the principle of the thing.
Rather then committing suicide in order to make sure no one lives out of this it would be better to see if everyone can find a way to work together to meet each others needs. Keeping the community together is very important and should be a goal of everyone involved.
This, I agree with--but it's not going to happen if "monetizing the site" is happening the way that has been described so far. If having stuff on the marketplace isn't enough (which to me is already on the borderline of unacceptable given the way we've had to work to keep disreputable vendors off the site so far, and won't be possible with the ads), then it's too much for me (and apparently many others).
I know it can be expensive to run such a site...but it can also be done in a number of ways besides ads, and "monetizing" the site does not sound at all like just paying for it, but rather making as much money as possible from it. That's basically not acceptable to me. I don't want a share of the money (even as financially desperate as I often am), I don't want to see this happen *at all*.
I realize some people here do not see a problem with using the work of others (that was not done to make money, but was done in the spirit of helpfulness and sharing and furthering ebikes, EVs, etc.) as honey bait to draw in the flies of advertisers and potentially disreputable vendors and whatnot, but that is what it amounts to, even if it is not what was intended. (It is impossible to know the intentions, as so far nothing clear has been said by those with them).
But to at least some of those of us that have done that work, given our time, etc., it *is* a problem. It's the spirit in which ES has grown that makes it a different place than others. The only other place that is even close, to me, has been DIY Electric Car, but their forum software (primarily) keeps me from frequenting it. ES is even better, though, and I don't want to see it's spirit changed.
Perhaps a highly simplified situational comparison might be made:
--you are a part of a free, non-commercial, open-source project to create the perfect ebike design. You've spent thousands of hours working on it along with others in your community who have also spent lots of their time, debugging it, and discussing features with users of it, working out how to do them, and making it all come true.
--Suddenly some of those working on it plus some outsiders come along and start selling, without your consent, your work (as a part of their own), that you did not for money, but for the community.
--What do you do? You can't get them to stop, you cant' take your work out of their project as they aren't going to let you. Take them to court? Maybe, if you can afford the years of legal battles, but they have a source of money, and you don't. So they win, and you lose, and so does the community.
That's an exaggeration, but it amounts to the kind of feeling about this that of those of us that have built ES into what it is have. I'm still just a newcomer compared to many, yet I still feel this way.
No offense to Knight but with some investment this site can be spectacular. Trevor wants to give it that investment and here everyone is complaining that someone is going to be attentive, address issues, make sure backups are working and foster ES into it's next phase.
No--that's not what people are complaining about. No insult intended, but you really need to learn how to read.
Besides, the site itself already *is* spectactular--in the content and people it's made from.
Sure, there's lots of little things and some big ones that could be changed or improved on, reorganized, etc., but it's not necessary. Just would be nice. And I'm pretty sure all of it could be paid for by donations, or as others have suggested: merchandise, contests, etc.
Of course, while we are all debating this, we're spending lots of time much better spent on getting that perfect ebike developed.
) getting banned and being charactarized as doing some odd stuff.
