New 9C 2807 - Noisy grinding sound under any load.

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rjc34

100 mW
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
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35
Took a short video of the sound. http://youtu.be/UM97DTefwTY

Just received this from Grin today. It sounds very similar to when I wired up my brand new Lyen controller with the phase and hall wires reversed (unbeknownst to me at the time), so I'm thinking it could be either a dead or mis-wired hall sensor.

Current it's hooked up to a hobby lipo pack (normally 16S4P 20Ah, but in the video I removed one bank for 12S4P). Everything is hooked up to Grin's 25A 36-72V controller. Seems to be sound fine if I'm just cruising, but any acceleration more than a light touch causes it to yell at me. Flat-out only seems to do ~42km/h, which is less than my old 36V pack did.

Found a video from YPedal that seems to demonstrate a similar problem. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBrJ_aXWRCk
 
that doesn't sound good...like metal on metal...send it back to justin for a replacement
the 2807 @ 15s is very fun but i ran mine @ 20s and loved it
 
wasp said:
that doesn't sound good...like metal on metal...send it back to justin for a replacement
the 2807 @ 15s is very fun but i ran mine @ 20s and loved it
Click to expand...

Ah well... 2 months of trying to fix my old motor, finally get this one and pow... problem.

I'll give Grin a call tomorrow and hopefully can get something sorted out. Not excited to be without a motor for another few weeks. Even less excited about shipping.
 
If it's quiet when spun by hand, then it's not a mechanical problem.

It's the wrong phase or halls wiring order, or it's something like one hall sensor not connected properly. Like the ol connector backed out of the housing problem.
 
Sounds exactly like phase / hall mismatch. I had the same result on a few combos on my 2810. It's why it's suggested to lightly touch the throttle when testing the combos.

There's plenty of threads of working combos on this, like this one: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6241&start=15#p96906

If you 've done this before you might allready know all of this, but if not, here's a response I posted previously on what I learned from messing with my 9c.

Once you get the concept of how the phase and hall wires work, the trial and error thing is really simple and you don't need these combo cheat sheets.

For the hall's, the red and black wires (on a 9c) are for power and most often match up color for color. That leaves three wires for the hall sensors. You can connect three wires a total of 6 different ways. So 6 for the halls and 6 for the phases. That's 6x6=36 total combos.

But here's the tricks you need to know:

1) The configuration of one is dependent on the other. So for each of the 6 possible hall combos, there's only one phase combo that will work. So, no matter what your halls are, you can quickly try all six phase combos and you'll get a working set.

2) Of the six working combos, three will run forward, three will run reverse. Since it easier to swap the phase wires, start with phase wires and find the one combo that works. If it runs forward your in luck. If it runs reverse, you've got to swap any two hall wires and try again.

3) As you're testing each combo, give it just a little throttle, not full. Once you get a working combo, then give it full throttle and if you have a CA watch the amps. They should be around 1 amp or so with full throttle and the wheel up to speed. This is the 'no load amps'. There are some combos that will run a bit slow and look ok, but will have a high no load amps, like 4 or 5 amps. These are what folks call 'false positives.'

That should get you sorted out. If go through this process once it'll become second nature for you. Good luck!
Click to expand...
 
as dogman said, with the wheel off the ground, can you manually spin it up easily ? or is it jammed up somehow ? ( freewheel to motor cover sometimes is an issue ) ..

what is the no load current ? ( again, wheel off the ground, watts used at X voltage )

will the motor start from a dead stop consistently ?
 
Yes what zip said. Sounds like your gear cluster is rubbing on the motor cover.
 
Ypedal said:
as dogman said, with the wheel off the ground, can you manually spin it up easily ? or is it jammed up somehow ? ( freewheel to motor cover sometimes is an issue ) ..

what is the no load current ? ( again, wheel off the ground, watts used at X voltage )

will the motor start from a dead stop consistently ?
Click to expand...

Spins freely and easily, just like the first one I got when it was new. Not jammed up at all.

Got the frame up on a bucket to get the tire off the ground and test the no load current. Looks like it creeps up to a max of about 1.6A @ ~48.5V. Took another video going from barely on the throttle all the way to full so record the no-load current all the way up. http://youtu.be/TRdfKN6QVq8 At the end I give it a quick few bursts to show the acceleration noise.

Yes, it starts from a dead stop every time.
 
dogman said:
If it's quiet when spun by hand, then it's not a mechanical problem.

It's the wrong phase or halls wiring order, or it's something like one hall sensor not connected properly. Like the ol connector backed out of the housing problem.
Click to expand...

Quiet when spun. Checked all of the hall connectors and they seem to be properly fitted. If I want to swap them around to test different combos do I just carefull pull them out of the housing with pliers? Should I go from the male connector on the motor or the female connector on the controller?
 
Alright, got through to Adam at Grin. After explaining the problem and checking the wiring, he's sending me a guide on testing the halls so I can see whether it's a defective sensor or not.
 
Ypedal said:
the no load test seems fine to me..

have you tried it out on the road yet ?
Click to expand...

Yes, for a very short stint. It felt similar to how my last controller did when I had the halls and phases mixed up, so I quickly shut it off. Basically, loud grunting under any kind of acceleration. Wasn't really up for frying another controller, so that was it.

Adam sent me a hall testing guide which I'll be making use of tomorrow morning to see if everything is alright in the motor itself.

Now, the following is just a hypethesis here, but I know that the tension on some of the spokes is off, thus making the wheel untrue, and while non of them are actually loose, could that potentially be part of the problem? I grabbed a spoke tool from Grin when I ordered the new controller, so I'll have to figure out how to tension them out myself to smooth it out at speed.
 
if the motor and hall wires was off, the no load test would grumble just as bad ..

I know you checked, but tripple check the pins between the motor and controller make sure they are not receeded into the housings.. a bad contact will cause a high resistance that will run ok at no load but grumble and complain at higher power.

Disconnect your CA from the controller if it's a 6 pin, you may have a settign in there causing grief, lvc, etc..
 
Ok did a whole bunch of tests... But they all look normal. Triple checked the connections... All good. Tested the halls... All functioning properly. Disconnected the CA, problem remains. From playing around with it a bit more, it feels like it's almost 'slipping' while trying to accelerated. Also, if I get it to just the right point it seems to put out no power, but still groans.
 
When you prop the wheel up and hit the throttle, then let off the throttle, does the wheel continue to spin? If it stops quickly, then something may be binding. Its just odd that the no-load current seems normal.
 
Talked to Adam again. After another exhaustive search, I still can't find anything to actually be wrong, so we've pretty much agreed that the problem is likely within the motor itself.

He's sending me out another one tomorrow, so hopefully that fixes the problem and I can get back to riding!
 
999zip999 said:
What Is the color combo of the wires from the controller and hub please both halls and phase. Are they all one color ?
Click to expand...

It's an Infineon controller from Grin, along with the motor, which are wired to be plug and play, so all the wire colours are wired to match controller to motor.
 
You can swap the hall and phase wires with simple jumpers for a low speed lite throttle test. As it seems the wire combo is off. So what did Adam say ?
 
rjc34 said:
999zip999 said:
What Is the color combo of the wires from the controller and hub please both halls and phase. Are they all one color ?
Click to expand...

It's an Infineon controller from Grin, along with the motor, which are wired to be plug and play, so all the wire colours are wired to match controller to motor.
Click to expand...

When I received my kit from Grin, hs3540 with 40a infineon controller the phase combo did not match up (wheel vibrated back and forth) It ended up being y-y g-b b-g.

I then wanted to enable cruise control, but a jumper that came in the wiring harness had to be removed in order for cruise to work. When I removed the jumper the wheel started going backwards.
Tried the phase wires, which didn't work.
Next I tried different combo's of hall sensor wires, until I found one that worked.
Its worked great since.
 
Sorry 999zip999 for the confusion,

I was replying to

"It's an Infineon controller from Grin, along with the motor, which are wired to be plug and play, so all the wire colours are wired to match controller to motor."

My controller and motor were not plug and play.
 
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