New A123 Prismatic 20Ah cells 480g and 30C

[webfootguy]

Just a heads up: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39504

Not sure if Jeff is a member of ES, but it's odd that he didn't post his info here.

Very interesting. All evidence points to these being fake product with the associated risks that involves. I wonder if A123 Systems can sue them in China?

 

[vanilla ice]

..it's odd that he didn't post his info here.

Wasn't he the ricer? I think he is not friends with us anymore..

Well if they're fakes that sucks. If they are suck fakes that sucks even more.

 

[liveforphysics]

The .PDF from A123 said the 20Ah pouches are made in Korea.

These A123 pouches Lynchy is getting say made in Korea.

The grounds for them being fakes is based on some minimum wage PR email responding lady telling Jeff that she doesn't know how A123 cells would get to China from Korea? Furthermore, in the .PDF from A123, on page 33 where it lists:

"1.
Multiple programs awarded with German OEMs using A123 cells
2.
Major North American companies, such as Chrysler and Delphi, have awarded A123 contracts
3.
First mass‐produced HEV in China (Shanghai Automotive, largest OEM in China) to use A123cells"


We know the number 2. bullet on that list has stabbed them in the back and backed out since Delphi and Chrysler both dumped them, or there EV projects entirely.
I don't know what all is happening with the German OEM's, but this leaves China as having the first EV produced with A123 cells. This tells me the odds are pretty damn good that at some point cells go from A123's point of origin in Korea to China, no matter what some lady paid to answer emails from the public happens to think/guess. China is like the wild west. We know they are getting cells, as China has A123's only successful production level EV application. If China is getting the cells, it's like the wild-west over there, cells are in the country, you're going to see people selling the cells. They bought millions of the 26650 A123 cells for cheap under an agreement to only supply them to OEMs, and of course they end up selling them on E-bay, alibaba, etc straight to us EV tinkerers. We know they are getting supplied with EV sized cells from Korea, why do we think it would be impossible that they are selling them openly as well?

 

[webfootguy]

It appears Ebay/the internet is the great leveler. Instead of "who you know" it becomes "how good is your search kung fu" or forum connections. Ahhh. Life is great. If these pan out to be the real thing and become available for reasonable costs, life would be good regardless of the source. I have heard folks buying those A123 cells on ebay are getting burnt with cells that do not meet spec. Anyone else have good experience? I have had good experience buying the 8 cell dewalt packs but we know those are not seconds.

 

[lynchy]

It appears Ebay/the internet is the great leveler. Instead of "who you know" it becomes "how good is your search kung fu" or forum connections. Ahhh. Life is great. If these pan out to be the real thing and become available for reasonable costs, life would be good regardless of the source. I have heard folks buying those A123 cells on ebay are getting burnt with cells that do not meet spec. Anyone else have good experience? I have had good experience buying the 8 cell dewalt packs but we know those are not seconds.

What's the great leveller? If someone is willing to invest in a large quantity and take the associated risks with that, what's the problem with them making a little money out of it? I've worked hard for the last 4 months developing my business and all I've done is spend money on numerous tools, smaples, not to mention day to day living and paying to study Chinese. There's not many luxuries in my life these days I can assure you. You don't even know how much I'm willing to sell these for. If I can grow my business it will not be to just put it into a fancy car or a big house. It will be to bring interesting new products which are properly thought out, tested and offer excellent value. I've been sourcing lots of items here in China and my take is that left to their own devices most good Chinese companies make good products that are about 80-90% right. I haven't bought anything yet that I couldn't see several ways to improve it. Now if I'm just 1 guy buying a sample, tricking the Chinese company into thinking that I'm gonna be the next big thing, you're not gonna make any changes to their products, you'll just be another guy on the internet winging about the quality of the wheel buid on his 200$ e bike kit which he then fits to his 1000$ bike and then fits 50$ tyres because the supplied 1s were junk... With a bit of buying power I can get things done to my spec and do my best to keep things at a very reasonable price.

Well I'll tell you something, I'm not looking to screw every last $ out of these. I'd be much happier if I could get these in bigger numbers with pretty small margins. You really are dreaming if you think these can be bought for peanuts and even making a very big investment, they are still very significantly more expensive than typical high quality LiFePO4 cells per Ah. Anyone who has any experience of buying stuff from Chinese companies will tell you that is not easy.

They'll be tested thoroughly and I will not invest in these unless they are as per spec.

So what do you think is a fair price for the 15Ah and 20Ah A123 cells per pc?

 

[voicecoils]

So what do you think is a fair price for the 15Ah and 20Ah A123 cells per pc?

You'll need to compete on price with HobbyCity basically.

Their 89.1Wh pack works out to $0.786/Wh

Specs:

Minimum Capacity: 4500mAh
Configuration: 6S2P / 19.8v / 12Cell
Constant Discharge: 30C
Peak Discharge (10sec): 40C
Pack Weight: 899g
Pack Size: 141 x 43 x 75mm
Charge Plug: JST-XH
Discharge plug: 4mm Bullet-connector

COST: US$69.99

So I'd say an absolute price ceiling of $52/cell for the 20Ah and $39/cell for the 15Ah.

 

[liveforphysics]

So what do you think is a fair price for the 15Ah and 20Ah A123 cells per pc?

You'll need to compete on price with HobbyCity basically.

Their 89.1Wh pack works out to $0.786/Wh

Specs:

Minimum Capacity: 4500mAh
Configuration: 6S2P / 19.8v / 12Cell
Constant Discharge: 30C
Peak Discharge (10sec): 40C
Pack Weight: 899g
Pack Size: 141 x 43 x 75mm
Charge Plug: JST-XH
Discharge plug: 4mm Bullet-connector

COST: US$69.99

So I'd say an absolute price ceiling of $52/cell for the 20Ah and $39/cell for the 15Ah.

The simplicity of making a 1P stack of cells is worth something though.

This is performance that greatly beats the Kokam cells we all wanted so badly (and Kokam wouldn't sell no matter what we tried), and retains the benefits of very simple pack construction.

If after testing they show the performance they promise, this is going to be the most logical battery choice for performance EV's and motorcycles. It may make more sense for lower powered things to limp along with headways and pings etc, but for anything demanding performance and safety, this has some serious promise.

 

[RoughRider]

a good price would be 2$/Ah

 

[lynchy]

I've made some arrangements to put together a resistive load that can load a single cell to 600A or so. I've ordered 20 * 0.1ohm resistors, plus bus bars and switches to load the cells as required. Should have the cells by monday and the load by next Friday. I'll get them tested ASAP I promise and give lots of pics, proof etc. Liveforphysics should also have some for testing also and will be able to put some specs on them. If there are specific tests that you want run then please detail them and I'll do my best to accomodate

I'll let you know what kind of price these can go for once I've fixed my costs and confirmed they do as claimed. These cells are not cheap, far more expensive than typical LiFePO4 and also more than Li Pol. They also offer many advantages over the A123 26650 and I've not noticed that these are being sold particularly cheap anywhere other than salvaged out of tool packs.

I hope you can be a bit patient till these have been tested. I should be able to give some prices within less than 2 weeks, hopefully a bit sooner.

Cheers
Lynchy

 

[RoughRider]

@lynchy
can you get the 10Ah 32157 cells too?

 

[lynchy]

@lynchy
can you get the 10Ah 32157 cells too?

Maybe, but they're crazy prices. The 10Ah cylindrical cells that I heard about were more expensive than a 15Ah prismatic. I don't think anyone would be interested at what they would go for. I've heard of people claiming to have cells but when I've tried to get them they've always let me down. I've got a tracking number for these samples so fingers crossed

Guys,

I have a bit more info for you:

Model: AHP 70165227 Model: AHP 68150211
Capacity: 20Ah Capacity: 15Ah
Size: 7.0X 166X227mm Size: 6.8X 150X211mm
Weight: 480g Weight: 400g

Also if you look in some of the earlier docs you can see that they claim over 5000W/kg for the prismatic compared to less than 2500W/kg for the 26650. Some of that difference will be due to the higher energy density but it also suggests that these cells will be at least equal to the 30C rating of the 26650 cells and could even be a bit better.

I made a bit of a silly post earlier which I have since deleted. Of course everybody wants to get products as cheap as possible and I need to better understand where everyone is coming from and not take things to heart. I will do my best to offer these at a fair and competitive price. However after some thought I am tending towards the idea of doing these cells as completed packs, with BMS and in a proper case. These cells are a bit special and to be honest they are not for everyone.

I will sell the individual cells at a slightly reduced price if that is what people really want but I feel a properly engineered solution is much better in the long run. The 20Ah cells give out somewhere in the region of 2500W a piece. So for a 16S pack you’re looking at 30,000W continuous. I dread to think what would happen if someone shorted even 1 of these out, let alone a built pack. I think these will also need to be kept under compression especially if the full C rating is used. The complete solutions will be very competitively priced and I’ll happily ensure that every pack is properly tested with a printout of the recorded data and confirmation that they meet the spec. I’ll have to do some work to see how high of a current BMS I can source but I will ensure that whatever spec is stated is genuine and not just marketing hype. 80A cont 48V BMS is available and competitively priced but I haven’t yet tested it myself to be satisfied that they are as per spec, although everything that I have received so far has exceeded stated specs. These will be on there way soon and will be tested by myself and whomever is happy to do so before they are released. Higher current and voltage BMS is also possible but I need to look into that some more.

I don’t really want to get to involved in discussing comparisons with other battery types currently available. I have some strong opinions and wouldn’t have put my money where my mouth is if I wasn’t confident in these. It is better that others can make fair comparisons as whatever I say can be seen as just marketing BS. I can only present the info that I’ve been given and there is enough specs on the attached previous docs to surmise some approximate specs such as C rating and energy density. I don’t claim to know the exact spec of every available cell on the market but I have yet to find a cell that has the combination of energy density, power density, life cycle and safety that these A123 prismatics appear to offer. I would go so far as to say that nothing comes close to ticking all these boxes in the way these cells do.

If people are interested in genuine 5C cells LiFePO4, LiCo Li po or A123 26650s. They can be arranged at very competitive prices in the format required, but these are a step up from these in my humble opinion. I will do my best to get them tested and once I have secured the order I’ll give a price and I’m very confident that it will offer excellent value.

I would be interested to know what sort of configurations people would be looking to put these into 12S 16S or higher?? What sort of BMS rating is required? Which cell type is required? I’ll look into finding a suitable slide on case but looking at those dimensions both the 15Ah and 20Ah is a little wide for the typical slide on case you tend to see in use. Maybe something that could be fitted in the frame? Or just a properly put together shrink wrap pack. It’s all possible

Thanks
Lynchy

 

[liveforphysics]

The folks on here looking for peak performance will want to run the packs at 26s to give them ~100v peak. All the power hungry hubmotor guys (and the few RC motor guys with sensors mounted, like myself) run 100v.

The RC motor guys will want to run 13s, as 50v is the limit of 99% of the HV RC controllers on the market.

 

[lynchy]

I'll have to see what the options are on BMS with regards to different series packs and get back to you. Custom BMS will likely work out a bit more pricey I would have though but shouldn't be significant in the scheme of things. What sort of current would be required do you reckon? I think it would be better all round if things could be kept to a few generic sizes that would suit most if not all.

Anyway, we're probably jumping the gun a bit, but it's all good stuff that I can be looking into till they become available.

 

[RoughRider]

OK...that means...you will be far away from 2$/Ah...

thats gonna make the batteries expensive...

i think, i am gonna wait 6month till the price drops...

 

[voicecoils]

The simplicity of making a 1P stack of cells is worth something though.

I agree the there is benefit to having fewer cells in a pack and minimising the paralleled groups. However, I also think that $/Wh should decline as cell size increases.

...It may make more sense for lower powered things to limp along with headways and pings etc, but for anything demanding performance and safety, this has some serious promise.

If you're suggesting Headway and ping cells are in the same basket, I disagree. Hall's pulled more then 40C from Headway cells without killing them, Frodus is building a pack for a 96v55A bike (52kW, 32s6p). Neither could have done it with ping cells.

That said, I completely agree that the A123 15Ah, 20Ah cells will be superior if they exist and function as claimed. I want some too!

 

[Icewrench]

The price for our A123 3.3V 20ah is US$44/PC
for above 100 pcsShipping is US$390
The A123 3.3V 15ah is US$33/PC
for above 100 pcsShipping is US$330

The above is from ali babba chit chat
Made in S Korea ship from Shenzhen China via ups only,
I wonder about ups brokerage fee?

500pcs is only 2 bux per cell less.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Luke,

The .PDF from A123 said the 20Ah pouches are made in Korea.

These A123 pouches Lynchy is getting say made in Korea.

The only mention of Korea, so far in this thread is the picture from the Chinese sellor's picture on Alibaba. They could have obtained that the picture from the Web or from the pdf we downloaded.

The grounds for them being fakes is based on some minimum wage PR email responding lady telling Jeff that she doesn't know how A123 cells would get to China from Korea?

Probably not a minimum wage PR lady. Jeff built this very nice ev with 3,360 M1 cells, purchased directly from A123:
http://www.evalbum.com/2621

3360 A123 Systems M1, 3.20 Volt, Lithium-Ion
Thirty cell parallel clusters, arranged as four series wired clusters in each battery module. A total of 28 series wired battery modules power this vehicle. Usable battery capacity: 23kW hrs.

In response to a question he said he purchased them directly from A123. He might have purchased a pallet. He said he got an excellent price but had to sign an NDA on pricing and agree not to use them in power tools and (I think) agree not to sell bare cells. After he built his pack he sold his welder on the ES sales forum, I think to John Holmes.

Furthermore, in the .PDF from A123, on page 33 where it lists:
3. First mass‐produced HEV in China (Shanghai Automotive, largest OEM in China) to use A123cells"

…this leaves China as having the first EV produced with A123 cells. This tells me the odds are pretty damn good that at some point cells go from A123's point of origin in Korea to China, no matter what some lady paid to answer emails from the public happens to think/guess. China is like the wild west. We know they are getting cells, as China has A123's only successful production level EV application. If China is getting the cells, it's like the wild-west over there, cells are in the country, you're going to see people selling the cells. They bought millions of the 26650 A123 cells for cheap under an agreement to only supply them to OEMs, and of course they end up selling them on E-bay, alibaba, etc straight to us EV tinkerers. We know they are getting supplied with EV sized cells from Korea, why do we think it would be impossible that they are selling them openly as well?

Excellent point about the possibility of A123 cells being available in China.

The folks on here looking for peak performance will want to run the packs at 26s to give them ~100v peak. All the power hungry hubmotor guys (and the few RC motor guys with sensors mounted, like myself) run 100v.

The RC motor guys will want to run 13s, as 50v is the limit of 99% of the HV RC controllers on the market.

Gary recommends using 12s for 36v and 16s for 48v packs as this allows the use of relatively inexpensive SLA Chargers (if you have a BMS). So 12s and 16s packs that could easily be connected (doubled) in series would take care of 36v, 48v, 72v and 96v if the 100v controllers can handle 3.7v (118v for 32s) per cell hot off the charger with 3.3v (106v for 32s) nominal (the M1 cells drop almost immediately to their nominal voltage of 3.3, then stay there until they are almost dead).

The Castle HV series run fine on 15s but 16s kills them.

I will do my best to offer these at a fair and competitive price. However after some thought I am tending towards the idea of doing these cells as completed packs, with BMS and in a proper case. These cells are a bit special and to be honest they are not for everyone.

The main advantages (IMO) over M1 cells are the ease in pack building. If they are not available as bare cells and they require compression I don't see the advantage as compared to M1 cells which are currently about $6 per cell. I'd be concerned about flat cells compressed against each other overheating.

For a BMS you might want to consider Gary and Richard's (Goodrum and Fechter) BMS:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5416

Another option that wouldn't have an 80a limit would be packs with Cell Monitors, like the following, configure to work with RC balancing chargers:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12815

CellLog 8S battery monitor and logger - any reviews?

Great little device for monitoring cells.

Features include,

Bar graph display,
0.001V display,
Various configable alarms, including cell low voltage alarm,
Alarm port ( cutout for throttle or controller?),
and can log voltages for each cell.

 

[johnrobholmes]

He said he got an excellent price but had to sign an NDA on pricing and agree not to use them in power tools and (I think) agree not to sell bare cells. After he built his pack he sold his welder on the ES sales forum, I think to John Holmes.

I still need a welding head for that setup :lol: Anybody want a spot welder power and control box?

 

[gogo]

I'd be concerned about flat cells compressed against each other overheating.

I think the technique I saw somewhere (Chrysler?) was to have a thin aluminum plate between each pouch to conduct the heat away. That takes a bit more space and adds some weight, making the specs a bit closer to round cells.

 

[lynchy]

Hi Guys,

thanks for all the useful information. I'm not fixed on any particular solution to how the BMS should be done and am happy to be reasonably flexable in that respect to give people want they require. I'll do my best to offer a good solution at a good price.

I know you are all itching for a price so I will try to think put something together as soon as possible. Hopefully within a few days, maybe Tuesday or Wednesday OK. I'm giving this a lot of thought and will do my best to keep the price as competitive as possible whilst still maintaining some sort of proft margin. It's also in my interest to shift some numbers so that I can secure future batches and hopefully push prices down a little for you guys.

I don't see this as a 1 time deal, I'm planning to build from here so that you can get new options that are properly tested, well engineered, assembled properly and above all competitively priced. Hopefully I can help to soften the blow of these slightly high cost cells by offering the associated pack assembly, electronics, case and chargers if required at very good prices. I'm sure that the figures I have in my mind will be very attractive to you all and in my opinion much better value, all things considered, than the presently available options.

Thanks
Lynchy

 

[liveforphysics]

Hi Luke,

The .PDF from A123 said the 20Ah pouches are made in Korea.

These A123 pouches Lynchy is getting say made in Korea.

The only mention of Korea, so far in this thread is the picture from the Chinese sellor's picture on Alibaba. They could have obtained that the picture from the Web or from the pdf we downloaded.

To quote Jeff's response from A123:
"
Hi Jeff,

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. This cell is not available for quantity sale and I question if the cells that are being marketed are knock-offs or stolen.

We manufacture the prismatic cell in Korea , so I don't know how they could find their way to a china reseller....

Believe me, I have multiple projects that require this cell but it is on strict allocation for key automotive customers. If I can't get them, I don't know how this dealer can.

Best,
xxxxxx
"

The grounds for them being fakes is based on some minimum wage PR email responding lady telling Jeff that she doesn't know how A123 cells would get to China from Korea?

Probably not a minimum wage PR lady. Jeff built this very nice ev with 3,360 M1 cells, purchased directly from A123:
http://www.evalbum.com/2621

3360 A123 Systems M1, 3.20 Volt, Lithium-Ion
Thirty cell parallel clusters, arranged as four series wired clusters in each battery module. A total of 28 series wired battery modules power this vehicle. Usable battery capacity: 23kW hrs.

In response to a question he said he purchased them directly from A123. He might have purchased a pallet. He said he got an excellent price but had to sign an NDA on pricing and agree not to use them in power tools and (I think) agree not to sell bare cells. After he built his pack he sold his welder on the ES sales forum, I think to John Holmes.

At work, I've bought 200million dollars of servers from HP. I still never had an email answered by anyone that has a clue WTF is going on. lol

Furthermore, in the .PDF from A123, on page 33 where it lists:
3. First mass‐produced HEV in China (Shanghai Automotive, largest OEM in China) to use A123cells"

…this leaves China as having the first EV produced with A123 cells. This tells me the odds are pretty damn good that at some point cells go from A123's point of origin in Korea to China, no matter what some lady paid to answer emails from the public happens to think/guess. China is like the wild west. We know they are getting cells, as China has A123's only successful production level EV application. If China is getting the cells, it's like the wild-west over there, cells are in the country, you're going to see people selling the cells. They bought millions of the 26650 A123 cells for cheap under an agreement to only supply them to OEMs, and of course they end up selling them on E-bay, alibaba, etc straight to us EV tinkerers. We know they are getting supplied with EV sized cells from Korea, why do we think it would be impossible that they are selling them openly as well?

Excellent point about the possibility of A123 cells being available in China.
Yep, we know the cells are in China, A123 acknowledges that.

The folks on here looking for peak performance will want to run the packs at 26s to give them ~100v peak. All the power hungry hubmotor guys (and the few RC motor guys with sensors mounted, like myself) run 100v.

The RC motor guys will want to run 13s, as 50v is the limit of 99% of the HV RC controllers on the market.

Gary recommends using 12s for 36v and 16s for 48v packs as this allows the use of relatively inexpensive SLA Chargers (if you have a BMS). So 12s and 16s packs that could easily be connected (doubled) in series would take care of 36v, 48v, 72v and 96v if the 100v controllers can handle 3.7v (118v for 32s) per cell hot off the charger with 3.3v (106v for 32s) nominal (the M1 cells drop almost immediately to their nominal voltage of 3.3, then stay there until they are almost dead).

All the RC controllers that have 50V caps on them aren't going to want to see more than 13cells. A couple of RC controllers run 63v caps. Same with an IRF4110 modded controller like a Methy special, or an Infinion. If you run over 26-27 cells, you're not going to be able to connect your charged pack to your controller without risking damage. You could run more in series, but then you're making a 17-18Ah pack rather than a 20Ah pack, because you won't be able to fully charge them. You could do this if you have a BMS/charger setup to only charge them so far.

The Castle HV series run fine on 15s but 16s kills them.

I will do my best to offer these at a fair and competitive price. However after some thought I am tending towards the idea of doing these cells as completed packs, with BMS and in a proper case. These cells are a bit special and to be honest they are not for everyone.

The main advantages (IMO) over M1 cells are the ease in pack building. If they are not available as bare cells and they require compression I don't see the advantage as compared to M1 cells which are currently about $6 per cell. I'd be concerned about flat cells compressed against each other overheating. With a 30C rated cell, you can very safely put that fear to rest my friend. Ri in the 0.5-0.8mOhm/cell area puts thermal concerns on the cells at zilch. Even continuous 200amp continous loads would be making just 32w of heat at the cell for 6 minutes... aka, 11.5KJ. I couldn't turn up a specific heat constant for a LiFePO4 polymer battery, but we know it's somewhere inside the range of solid materials between graphite 0.710KJ/Kg-C and the greatest specific heat solid material on earth, Lithium metal, at 3.58KJ/Kg-C. This gives boundaries on a worst possible case temp rise of 24.25c (if the cell were solid graphite) to 4.81c (if the cell were pure lithium). This is assuming the cell is just continuously discharged at 200amps in a vacuum with all energy kept in the cell, absolutely zero thermal energy loss. Even in a worst case scenario, if the cell was pure graphite (which is actually worse than even if it were pure styrofoam lol), then you're still going to end up below the 70deg C operating range temp for the cells.

Rest your thermal concerns my friend

For a BMS you might want to consider Gary and Richard's (Goodrum and Fechter) BMS:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5416

Another option that wouldn't have an 80a limit would be packs with Cell Monitors, like the following, configure to work with RC balancing chargers:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12815

CellLog 8S battery monitor and logger - any reviews?

Great little device for monitoring cells.

Features include,

Bar graph display,
0.001V display,
Various configable alarms, including cell low voltage alarm,
Alarm port ( cutout for throttle or controller?),
and can log voltages for each cell.

 

[gogo]

Here's the picture showing the heatsink plates between the pouches.

 

[lynchy]

Guys,

I'm taking this all in, will try to cover all the bases as best I can and follow advice of knowledgeable interested parties. I've got a resistive load on it's way that can test a single cell to it's limits and cells will be made available to independent individuals to do the necessary tests. I've already considered the requirement for keeping them under pressure to prevent swelling and during my load tests I'll measure the temperature to get some specifics such as delta temperature increase at various C ratings. I'm sure that with a few tests we should be able to determine what is a safe load to avoid heat issues and if it's required to put some additional cooling plates between the stacked cells, I'm sure it can be done and be proven with some straightforward tests. There are lots of knowledgeable people on here, I have access to some good electronic design engineers, a professional battery manufacturing company and I'm also an experienced engineer in my own right. Between us I'm sure that we can come up with a really good solution.

It would be great to get hold of 1 of the above cases but I wouldn't hold your breath. I believe that adding temperature sensing to the BMS is not so expensive (will enquire about specifics) and I could easily put a couple of K type thermocouples in their for next to nothing to monitor it independently. If there are specific BMS that would be required I'd be happy to get it built into the pack but it might be more work as I would have to ensure that it functions correctly and will not damage the cells. I'm happy to work my butt of to make sure these packs are the very best they can be and offer outstanding value.

My feeling is that at the kind of current draws that even the vast majority of users would require, heat should not be an issue but tests will reveal. All the valid points that you guys are putting forward are precisely why I want to offer a built pack rather than just ship out cells that could go wrong if mishandled. If it just cells I prefer that they only go to experienced individuals or companies that know what they are doing. It may take a bit longer, it's a lot more work for me but like I said before I'm not interested in just being a box shifter and would I'd like to feel that I have added real value to the product.

My schedule is as follows:

Monday - receive sample cells and ship some to Liveforphysics ASAP for testing.
Tues/Wed - start to give some specific prices for bare cells
Saturday - should have some initial test results

Once the tests have proved the cells claims they will be shipped to me and initially some cells can be made available. Packs will follow as soon as possible with hopefully shrink wrap packs available in a short time, but cases may take a little longer to organise (these could follow at a later date if that was acceptable and you just cannot wait to get your hands on them )

Cheers
Lynchy

 

[lynchy]

I was thinking about ordering 2 pieces of each of the below units. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK? I can get these ordered within a couple of days if it's reckoned they will be useful. If there's additional parts that would be useful from this supplier or any others please tell me.

http://www.hillrc.com/EnProductShow.asp?ID=96

http://www.hillrc.com/EnProductShow.asp?ID=93

Also if anyone is happy to supply me with a BMS for some testing I will happily oblige. Just let me know who to speak to and where to send the money and it's done.

If there's any other parts that people think I should be looking at please let me know. I've already started to make arrangements to get a high power CBA3 and will get a USB scope ASAP too. These USB scopes are great and really good for reports as you can just do a screen print to demostrate the test results and can do long term logging etc.

Cheers
Lynchy

 

[liveforphysics]

That chargery 1010B charger is my personal favorite, and I've got 4 of them.

The cell-log is also a very slick piece of equipment. Gary, myself, and others have found them to be an outstanding product for the minimal price they charge.