New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)

[methods]

.... All the new ones have torque throttle and speed limits if you want to use them. You can run the throttle wires into the CA then to the controller I just did this last night and torque throttle is pretty cool. .....

My first bike had a Kelly with torque throttle and it was awesome. The most useful aspect was using it with Cruise Control. If you have a really long grade to climb you can set it to the exact current you want - say 10A or 20A - and you can burn smooth even power up the hill without worry. Using cruise control speed mode up long hills results in tons of overshoot and heat as the controller is constantly bursting power to try and keep the speed constant.

I think that some tuning will be in order to dial in the thrust control with a high power system...

-methods

 

[Arlo1]

My first bike had a Kelly with torque throttle and it was awesome. The most useful aspect was using it with Cruise Control. If you have a really long grade to climb you can set it to the exact current you want - say 10A or 20A - and you can burn smooth even power up the hill without worry. Using cruise control speed mode up long hills results in tons of overshoot and heat as the controller is constantly bursting power to try and keep the speed constant.

I think that some tuning will be in order to dial in the thrust control with a high power system...

-methods

You will need torque throttle or thrust control for a hi power bike to be able to ride out some great wheelies!

 

[biohazardman]

Arlo

Yes, I got the 12G from him also, very good quality and service, just a bit paranoid at the thin edge of .4mm aluminums ability to stay tight and hold things together I will not be there to fix it should there be problems. Are the holes in your motor 4.2 mm also?

 

[nicobie]

A Cycle Analyst is so so so easy to install on any controller. There is no reason to worry you just got to open it up and solder the wires were they need to go!

I did that with Justin's direction. No workie. He couldn't tell me where to hook up the throttle control wire with out looking at the controller's psb Kenny sent to me. This is the new sensored controller that Clyte is sending out with the H series motor.

Maybe you can help? :lol:

The side with the glare in the first picture is where the throttle hooks up which CA do you have? All the new ones have torque throttle and speed limits if you want to use them. You can run the throttle wires into the CA then to the controller I just did this last night and torque throttle is pretty cool. You dont have to use it as a torque throttle but its an option. Make sure you read the instructions! http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain/CA_Large_V223_Web.pdf

Yes, I've been messing with CAs for a while now. Mine is the very latest model. Have done the pot mod and even managed to replace a sm resistor when it cooked @ 90v on my old one. Justin asked me to send the new controller to him so he could check out the traces.

This is the controller that Kenny sends out with the same plug that the CA uses but does NOT WORK WITH Justins CA. Do you have the same controller? I would love to know where the wires go. It would save Justin the work of figuring it out too. :|

Any real help is always welcome. :wink:

 

[Arlo1]

Ok so for the throttle over ride to work you need to either cut the throttle signal wire and feed it into the CA then from the CA to the controller. Or use this curcuit

 

[Arlo1]

I would love to know where the wires go. It would save Justin the work of figuring it out too. :|

Any real help is always welcome. :wink:

You need to tie the speed signal yellow wire to either SA,SB or SC it just senses the hall square wave. The shunt positive and negative go on either side of your shunt V-batt goes to vcc-l which is positive power when you turn on your controller all the wires are all labled in this picture.

 

[methods]

You will need torque throttle or thrust control for a hi power bike to be able to ride out some great wheelies!

OH!
FLIPPING DUH!!!

That's why it is so hard to ride a wheelie on my bike... in order to hold it up I have to keep adding gas... but if it were thrust controlled I could just hold it in place and go.
I am switching over tomorrow

Did you find that you had to tweak the settings to work well with your setup?
Is the response instant?
Is there overshoot?

-methods

 

[methods]

Justin explains how to tap the sensoless controllers here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26336


-methods

 

[Arlo1]

You will need torque throttle or thrust control for a hi power bike to be able to ride out some great wheelies!

OH!
FLIPPING DUH!!!

That's why it is so hard to ride a wheelie on my bike... in order to hold it up I have to keep adding gas... but if it were thrust controlled I could just hold it in place and go.
I am switching over tomorrow

Did you find that you had to tweak the settings to work well with your setup?
Is the response instant?
Is there overshoot?
-methods

Its realy smooth dude and the delay is just the same as stock I think all the delay I have is from the china controller. But yeh it was uber easy to install. I was trying to use the CA to tune out the dead spot in the throttle but I don't think I can. I will need to do the resistor mod for that. You can chage the settings (think they are basicaly PID) but its all ready set pretty good. You need to read the instructions and set the amp throttle on in the advanced settings or when you turn your controller on you will get a full throttle supprise like I did lol.

 

[nicobie]

Justin explains how to tap the sensoless controllers here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26336


-methods

Yea, I saw that a while back. The controller I got from Kenny is a new type that is sensored and wired for his worthless display. I couldn't find out where to attach the throttle signal wire to the pcb. Justin couldn't either using the crap pictures I sent him. That's why he asked me to send it to him. I know he is swamped right now, I told him to not worry about it. I know he will get to it when he has a chance. I am just happy he is willing to look at it.

 

[Arlo1]

Edit: just re read your post! Do you have your throttle working?? Do you have a multimeter? You can trace the throttle wire that varies from 0-5v to the bord!

 

[biohazardman]

I dont know why the hell he does stuff like that. :? <big sigh....>
Who on earth wants spoke holes that big???

In the past I have used brass washers that will deform and fit tight... though if you let them get loose they will eventually rub through. Seems to me that if you have "real spokes" you can run them tight enough that the loose fit wont matter right? I have been running 14G spokes with a 3.5mm head in the 3.0mm 9C motors for over a year and I have not had a problem (super overvolted). I think most of the problems boil down to loose spokes (but good luck tightening the fake Chinese ones.... )

-methods

OK then now that I have read the whole thread through at least twice I still don't see what people are doing about the huge holes they drilled for the spokes in these things like 4.2 mm. My 12ga Sapim spoke has a 2.6mm shaft and is 5mm max at the widest part of the head. So a very sloppy fit and only .4mm overlap on the motor flange. I really wanted to get this thing done like yesterday so I expect with that in mind it will take years? ;^) Spoke washers for a new motor? What have you done or have you had the problem?

Thanks Methods, I will look into the washers although I am not a happy camper with this kind of poor workmanship and quality control being sent to me in the first place. Guess that's what I get for purchasing latest and greatest. Would have preferred the kit as you are now selling but they were not around then. Still I may opt for one soon anyway.

 

[nicobie]

Edit: just re read your post! Do you have your throttle working?? Do you have a multimeter? You can trace the throttle wire that varies from 0-5v to the bord!

yea...

the bike works fine. Got a flute too ...

I also have cobbled up a O-50 amp meter and a 100v volt meter to get me by until I get my CA and controller get back from ebikes.ca.

My post here is about making my controller work with Justin's very useful CA.

 

[Arlo1]

I also have cobbled up a O-50 amp meter and a 100v volt meter to get me by until I get my CA and controller get back from ebikes.ca.

My post here is about making my controller work with Justin's very useful CA.

So if your bike is working all you got to do is tie into the throttle wire you dont need to do that inside the controller.... you can do that anyware on the throttle wire or in the controller. If you wanted you could send me your controller and CA and I could get it all hooked up.

 

[full-throttle]

You will need torque throttle or thrust control for a hi power bike to be able to ride out some great wheelies!

..or get some tips from Al (the guy in orange) [youtube]4hx_rjAEMlo[/youtube]stock HS3540, stock controller, speed throttle, AWESOME skills

 

[Arlo1]

Warning: All HS35 owners need to remove the seal on the wire side. The seal will cut the insulation off your wires! The fact there is a seal there is just stupid I meen what the hell is it going to seal on it has a smooth surface on the axle till it gets to the cut out for the wires and has to drag across the metal edeges of the cut it just simply can seal anything! Next time you put bearings in just user bearings with "2RS" at the end of the bearing number it will have 2 Rubber Seals!

 

[kentlim26]

do you have any photos to show, where is the seal on the wire side ? thanks .. i hope to learn something before i will buy a hs3540 and test them.

 

[Hugues]

do you have any photos to show, where is the seal on the wire side ? thanks .. i hope to learn something before i will buy a hs3540 and test them.

here you can find a picture of the mod you should do to avoid the problem,
under the thick black plastic disk you will find the seal causing the problem. This rubber seal contains a metallic ring inside, mine was exposed and was eating the insulation of the wires. I replaced the seal with a rubber one only but most importantly did the mod on this page, since then no problems


http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29731&hilit=cut+wire+crystalyte#p429300

and a picture of my broken seal, you can see the metallic part exposed

 

[icekreme1002]

Well I had my first ride, and wow!!! The HS35 is very fast. Unfortunately I didn't reset the CA stats before I left so i'm not sure of my true top speed or other stats but when i had the nads for a glance I was just over 60km/h with plenty left.
Top speed I got from my 9c 8x8 with the same settings was around 58km/h on flat so looking forward to the weekend so I can really test this.

My setup is 18s on lyen 18fet at 60amps.

 

[mvly]

Well I had my first ride, and wow!!! The HS35 is very fast. Unfortunately I didn't reset the CA stats before I left so i'm not sure of my true top speed or other stats but when i had the nads for a glance I was just over 60km/h with plenty left.
Top speed I got from my 9c 8x8 with the same settings was around 58km/h on flat so looking forward to the weekend so I can really test this.

My setup is 18s on lyen 18fet at 60amps.

Wow 4KW into the motor? What is the realistic limit without burning out the wires/motor?

Ilia recommended 2.5KW at most into my HS3548.

 

[Bazaki]

8kw burst with original phase wires no problem, although is does get warm. 18s lipo 80a lyen controller, top about 85kmh.

 

[icekreme1002]

Wow 4KW into the motor? What is the realistic limit without burning out the wires/motor?

Ilia recommended 2.5KW at most into my HS3548.

I have drilled cooling holes and changed the phase to 10awg outside the axle so should be ok.
Will test it out further over the weekend on some steep hills to really push the thing.

 

[methods]

Warning: All HS35 owners need to remove the seal on the wire side....

Lol, where have you been bro?
We have been talking about this for 5 months

All you have to do is rotate the plastic wire guide and cut a new notch. This holds the wire down below the seal. Go back and look at your plastic wire guide, it was machine incorrectly with a "mouse hole" that allows the wire to come up into the seal.

-methods

 

[methods]

Well I had my first ride, and wow!!! ......

Wow 4KW into the motor? What is the realistic limit without burning out the wires/motor?

Ilia recommended 2.5KW at most into my HS3548.

I run 66V 100A current limit with an HS3540 in a 26" rim with no drilled holes and stock wires.

Burst power is not going to melt your phase wires... a burst of 130A is much less damaging than a continuous 60A. It is the buildup of heat over time - not the peak value.... so think about the *average current* running through your wires and make your decisions based on that. Also realize that your motor is higher KV and it will "pull" more current than a 3540 or 3525 for a longer period since the back EMF is not building up as fast.

Remember that people who run more power accelerate much harder and therefor have that power applied for a much shorter time. I can accelerate from 15mph to 30mph in just a flash... so even though I am pumping 6KW into the phase wires it is only for 2 seconds. Another rider running at a lower current limit may find themselves "on the current limit" for a much greater part of their ride which results in a lot more heat buildup in the wires. This is multiplied with higher KV motors.

Also remember that any time a vendor recommends a limit they are assuming you weigh 250lbs and your intention is to point it straight up hill on a hot day.... i.e. they are recommending the steady state limitations.

Finally - it is important to point out that those who run high power have inevitably burnt up motors so we have a different riding style. I only accelerate hard a few times during a ride - certainly not from every stop! I avoid running the motor hard below 15mph (in the low efficiency zone) and I try hard to be "smooth" with the throttle. Any time the throttle is jerked huge inefficiencies are created - so the smoother we turn the throttle the less heat we deposit into the wires and motor.

It just comes natural after some period of time (and enough burnt motors )

-methods

 

[Arlo1]

Methy I haven't burnt any motors! I hammer the throttle hard all the time and do all the stupid shit these motors hate. I have 2 simple solutions that have proven themselves very worthy, Cooling fans and heavy duty dropouts with pinch bolts!