New enthusiast with some questions on getting a first bike.

[mlrosier]

Hello. I'm looking into getting either a prebuilt e-bike or a conversion kit, but I'm not sure what to do. I've been doing research now for three days, and I'm still at a loss. Here's what I'm wanting. I want a mountain bike type configuration, I'd like to be able to go at least 25mph, and a maximum of 35mph. I'd like to be able to go up moderate hills with ease. I would like a range of at least 35 miles. And I would like to keep the price around $1200.

I almost purchased a bunch of stuff lastnight from http://www.poweridestore.com Here is what I was planning on getting....

X-5 Kit - 5305 Crystalyte Motor on 26" Rim w/7 Speed Freewheel $749: http://www.poweridestore.com/X-5-Hub-Motor-Kit/X-5-750W-Rear-Hub-Motor-Kit

Upgrade to 40A(36v-72v) Motor Controller $14.95 upgrade with purchase of the above X-5 Kit: http://www.poweridestore.com/Brushless-Controllers/Series-5-Controllers/40A72V-X-5-Motor-Controller

Wiring Harness - $17.95: http://www.poweridestore.com/Battery-Cables/Wiring-Harness

48v Twist Grip Throttle with LED Battery Meter $23.50: http://www.poweridestore.com/Throttles/48V-Twist-Grip-Throttle-with-Battery-Charge-LEDs

Hub Motor Torque Arm $21.95: http://www.poweridestore.com/Torque-Arm/Hub-Motor-Torque-Arm

As for the batteries, the site has a NimH pack listed, that comes with Charger, but it's $699. That's too pricey for right now. I'm not sure where to get batteries for a decent price. I was looking into getting a 48v/20ah pack of Nicad, Nimh, or LithiumIon. But I'm unsure, because I don't know what kind of range or speed I would get with that.
I guess my questions would be:

Are the items above what I need to do a full conversion?

What kind of battery pack would I need for the performance I'm looking at getting? And where could I get it, and at what price?

Will this even work with the bike I have? I have a Mongoose XR-250 with 26" wheels. I suppose I could steal my girlfriend's bike if I needed to, or get a cheapy lighter bike from Walmart or Target.

Finally, are there any prebuilt bikes out there in my price range that offer the performance I'm looking at? If so, does anyone have links they can provide?

I feel dumb asking so many questions, but I really am interested in doing this. I'm on disability, and have been for 3 years now. I've spent most of that time feeling sorry for myself, and playing World of Warcraft. I am going to get rid of my account in that game, get an E-bike, get some exercise, and have some fun, while working to get my life back in order. Any help you guys could offer me would be great.

Thank you in advance.

 

[CGameProgrammer]

There are zero pre-built bikes that will do what you want because laws in most states/countries limit e-bikes to 20 mph, so you have to buy a kit to have any fun. For batteries, I'd recommend avoiding nickel and going with either lead-acid or lithium.

A range of 35 miles is enormous. You may have difficulty achieving that without pedaling... then again, ElectricRider sells a battery pack for $1600 that they say they measured as delivering 26 miles' range at a cruising speed of 35 mph. I've never used that pack though so I can't vouch for it myself.

 

[mlrosier]

Thank you for the reply. I would even be satisfied with a 25mph, 25 mile range configuration.
What about this bike....

http://www.iloveebikes.com/ebike443.html
http://estore.websitepros.com/1866691/Detail.bok?no=1

The Stealth Dragon? Is it any good? Is 18mph a good speed to give you that "freedom" feeling? I used to ride motorcycles. Do you know what I mean? Would it go faster with a different controller?

I also went to this website, and placed an order together, but haven't purchased it yet...

Would this be all I need to convert my bike for what I'm wanting to do?

Your ElectricRider Order
DESCRIPTION QTY Unit
Price Total
Price
X-W408R-26 RoadRunner Motor on 26 inch Rear Wheel 7-speed $269.99
X-7SpdFreeWheel Shimano 7 speed freewheel $19.99
X-CT7240 72V 40A Phoenix Speed Controller $279.99
X-EB-01 Brake Inhibit (pair) $29.99
X-fuse40 40A Fuse $1.99
X-Extn-THR Throttle Extension for Crystalyte Throttles $8.99
X-FuseHolder Fuse Holder up to 40A $9.99
X-LiteGauge Headlight with battery gauge-36V $29.99
X-SLA-CHG-48V Charger 48V 2.2A $79.99
X-T248 Standard Half-Twist Throttle w/Gauge 48V $49.99
X-TPRackMTX Topeak MTX Bag Rack $39.99
X-TQARM Phoenix Torque Arm R2 $19.99
X-WireSet48 Wire Set 48V - For Sparrow and RoadRunner(40amp fuse) $29.99
EVP20-12B1 B&B 20 AH 12V SLA Battery $80.99 x4 $323.96

SubTotal $1,194.83

Or would this order from the same site be going too far over budget for a first time e-biker?

Your ElectricRider Order
DESCRIPTION QTY Unit
Price Total
Price
X-7SpdFreeWheel Shimano 7 speed freewheel $19.99
X-fuse40 40A Fuse $1.99
X-LiteGauge Headlight with battery gauge-36V $29.99
X-TQARM Phoenix Torque Arm R2 $19.99
X-K4820R RoadRunner System 4820R Size: 26 inch rear wheel
Substitute: Lighted Twist Throttle
Upgrade: Soneil Charger
Cruise Control with Brake Inhibits
Upgrade: Eonyx Lithium Battery
SKU: X-K4820R-26R $2,246.99
SubTotal $2,318.95
Total $2,318.95




Matt

 

[lazarus2405]

Well, first off, I suggest you forget electricrider and swing on over to ebikes.ca. Justin and Zev there know far more than the electricrider people, and they'll answer any question you might have.

And, no, 18mph will not give you that freedom feeling.

So, up to 35mph, and a 35 mile range at a more stately speed, with hill climbing power. What I would suggest is a 5304 in a 26" wheel, a 72v 40a controller, throttle, and two 36v 12ah LiFePO4 batteries in series for 72v12ah. You'll have to send them an email, though, about the batteries. They're new additions to their inventory, and they're in the process of checking every single one before selling it.

And get their CycleAnalyst. It's your spedometer, odometer, power meter, fuel gauge, and more. Speed, RPM, current, voltage, power, distance traveled, battery capacity used, lifetime distance traveled, number of battery cycles, maximum current, max speed, minimum voltage, regen... it does it all. There is no better ebike handlebar computer, and it simply plugs directly into the controller.

 

[Deepkimchi]

I'll 2nd what Lazarus said and add:

get the 5 speed freewheel, the 7 was too tight.
like he said, get the ebike.ca cycleanalyst that matches their controller...

my rear 5304 with 36V LiFePo4 12 ah does 35KPH (21 mph) with a range of 15 miles. Climbs hills well - about 25-30 kph.

Go for the cheaper steel frame bikes with suspension front & middle.-

I'm rather new - search on my posts (deepkimchi) and you'll see the process I went thru (except wish I had bought from ebikes.ca)

DK

 

[mlrosier]

Lazarus2405, thank you for the reply. I will definitely send them an email with your recommendations and see if they will work with me on it. I really can't go much over $1200, so I don't know if that will be feasible or not. I'm pretty sure I visited their site before and their prices are kinda high range. I could be wrong though. I also believe that they were Sold Out on almost everything I saw there. Again, could be wrong. I've visited ALOT of websites these past three days doing research on this. The thing I'm seeing is that the prices on batteries are ridiculous. It's just like with fuel, the more you need it, the more they charge. I probably could get 8 12v 18ah SLA batteries and connect them up, but I'm hearing that they are not very efficient, are very heavy, and can be very dangerous.
What do you think about the bike I have? Will it work? Or is it too heavy? I know the rear dropouts are super thick, so I was thinking that would be good.

 

[mlrosier]

Hey guys, anyone know anything about these batteries? They're 36v 12ah.

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/36vo12ahbafo.html

Are they SLA? They're pretty cheap. Two in a series for 72v, plus the charger would only be $300.

 

[lazarus2405]

Well, quality lithium batteries will be expensive. However, over the lifetime of the batteries, they'll be far cheaper than lead or nickel. And I have absolutely no idea how you'll be able to fit 8 12v 18ah batteries on a bike. You're talking easily over 100lbs of lead. At a high discharge rate typical of bikes, you'll only see ~60% of the rated capacity, while with lithium it'll be close to 90%.

That battery you found is SLA, but it might work. ~50lbs for nominal 860Wh. But you'll have the efficiency problem with the Peukert effect - that is, the faster you drain the SLAs, the less capacity they'll deliver. The workaround, short of using a better chemistry, is to add more capacity or drain at a slower rate. Because of weight, both options are unattractive.

Your bike should be perfect. Weight isn't too much of a problem (remember, you're adding the weight of batteries and a motor), and you'll need the strong dropouts. And you'll appreciate the full suspension and disc brakes.

Any other questions?

 

[mlrosier]

Thank you again for the reply. I do have another question. I found the following website....

http://www.ev-power.com.au/-Bike-hub-motors-.html

If I were to buy the GM 36V ELECTRIC HUB MOTOR KIT and the 36V LiFePO4 BATTERY AND CHARGER ( http://www.ev-power.com.au/-Lithium-Ion-Batteries-for-Electric-.html ), would that be an ideal setup? Provided that they ship to the U.S., and the shipping charge is somewhat reasonable, this seems like a decent deal. But I'm not sure.

It seems that the only thing holding me back at this point is the price on batteries, and an ideal battery configuration. I'm not smart enough to tear up battery packs and rewire stuff like that, and I"m very weary about buying anything off of Ebay. My main thing is that I don't want to spend a fortune for a battery, because I'm not entirely sure yet that I'll use the bike enough to justify it. In the situation I'm in, I want to build the bike to motivate myself to get out there and use it, that's the main reason for all of this, to motivate myself enough to get out there and enjoy the wind in my face. I have a very short attention span, and I need something that is going to be fun for me and hold my interest long enough to get me into it deeply. Not quite sure how else to explain that one. lol.

 

[lazarus2405]

Well, if you're afraid to go whole-hog, then a smaller setup might be wiser. A 400-series motor or something similar and a 36v or 48v battery. Like a 406 with a 48v 12ah battery. I'd still recommend talking with the folks at ebikes.ca, and poking around their website. There's a great deal of general information there.

Still, I'd advocate the 5000 series motors if you think you'd stick with it. The power is addictive. If you can stretch your budget to $1300-$1500, it'd definitely be worth it in the end.

The stuff you found on the ausie site all looks good, but I doubt they'd ship to the states.

Actually, what you could do is get a powerful motor and controller, and cheap lead batteries. With those, you could figure out how much power and capacity you need and upgrade to good lithium batteries at a later date, thus spreading the investment. Though, that way, you'd eat the investment you made in the SLAs. With that setup, you'd want a 5304 in a 26" with those two scooter batteries you looked at. It's be a good compromise, but you'll quickly feel the disadvantages of SLAs.

 

[mlrosier]

Thank you again for the reply. I think I'm going to look into some more things tomorrow. I like your idea of getting the 5304 26" kit and the two SLA batteries, and then saving up for the big nicer battery over time. This will most likely be the route I go.
I'll piece together a gameplan tomorrow and see what comes of it. I will probably ask for some input on it. Thanks again for being so helpful. I never thought that I would put so much thought into this. I'm learning quite a bit though.

Thank you.

 

[mlrosier]

Ok. I think I might have finally come to a consensus on what I want to do.
What do you think about this configuration I put together at ebikes.ca....

48V 12Ah Rectangular NiMH $625
48V 2A NiMH / NiCad Battery Charger $85
Direct Plug-in Cycle Analyst w/ Speedometer Cable $140
10 Foot Roll of Silicone Tape $10.00
5 Speed Freewheel $18.00
Crystalyte Half Twist Throttle $15.00
36V 20A Start Immediate Brushless Controller, can be used up to 48V $115
26 inch 5304 Rear Wheel $485

Subtotal = $1493

And my other question would be, if I decided to later on add another 48v 12Ah NiMH pack for 96v, could I use the 36-72V 48A Start Immediate Digital Controller (IRFB4110 Mosfets) that they have listed on their site since it is rated for use up to 100v?

Thank you again for all of your helpful input.

 

[lazarus2405]

And my other question would be, if I decided to later on add another 48v 12Ah NiMH pack for 96v, could I use the 36-72V 48A Start Immediate Digital Controller (IRFB4110 Mosfets) that they have listed on their site since it is rated for use up to 100v?

Yeah, first thing first, I'd go with the 72v48a controller. That one will work fine at voltages down to ~29v, up to 100v, and a little over if you're brave. If you increased your voltage later and originally bought the 36v controller, you'd need to replace it first.

Also, you don't need the CA w/ speedometer cable. The normal direct plug-in unit detects the wheel speed from the motor directly. If you buy your controller from ebikes.ca, you just plug in one connector. simple as that.

As far as the rest of your configuration, I'm not sure it'll be fast enough. Let me explain.

There are two tools that really are extremely useful for finding your optimal motor/voltage/wheel size. The first, of course, is the simulator at ebikes.ca (http://ebikes.ca/simulator/). The blue line is torque or thrust, depending on your selected units, and correlates to acceleration. The green line is efficiency, and generally the higher the rpm, the more efficient the motor is. The red line is power, which will peak in the middle of the rpm range and then drop off. Where all three lines crash to zero is the unloaded speed, or the motor's max speed at that voltage if it wasn't doing any work. In general, you want your setup's cruising speed to be as close to the unloaded speed for efficiency, but as you get closer to that speed you loose power. So, you have to compromise between your motor efficiency and your desired top speed.

The second tool tells you how much power you need to maintain a speed given some basic aerodynamic information: http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm To find your actual top speed, find the point where your motor's power output drops below the power required to fight the air resistance at that speed.

You might be better off getting 2x 36v8ah NiCad batteries. It's the exact same capacity (in watt-hours), but arranged in a higher voltage. As you can see on the simulator, there's a huge difference between running an x5 at 48v and 72v.

Then again, if you're spending that much on batteries, I suggest you contact them and ask about their lithiums. Can't hurt to ask.

And of course, I'm glad to help. When I was first learning these things, other folks were extremely helpful to me. Perhaps the folks I help will stick around and help yet more folks enjoy ebiking. Call it a vicious circle of helping.

 

[mlrosier]

Great to hear from you again. What would you say about this? I found these 36v 8ah Lithium batteries on Ebay....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Li-Ion-Battery-...ZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem


Two of them, would be $500 for 72v of power. Good deal?

Oh, and they sell the charger here for $40.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/Universal-Smart-Charger-for-36V-37V-Li-Ion-Battery-1-0A_W0QQitemZ280175664397QQihZ018QQcategoryZ42146QQcmdZViewItem

This would be a cheaper route than the NiCad batteries and charger on Ebike.ca, and I'd be getting Lithium power.

 

[lazarus2405]

Well, yes and no. Those are LiCo, the same chemistry involved in all those well-publicized laptop fires. They won't last as long as LiFePO4, and have a couple of other drawbacks. I don't think those will be able to deliver more than 20 amps burst. Still, they're far better that nickel.

There are some here who use LiCo, and haven't had problems. Though, one of them, Xyster, hasn't been seen here since early December. Considering he runs an 80v30ah LiCo pack, we fear the worst.

I don't know of anyone here who has experience with that battery seller. When folks here buy lithiums off of ebay, they go to a fellow named Ping (pingping227 on ebay). Sure, the batteries might be covered in duct tape, but people have had a lot of success with them. I'd suggest two of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/36V-10AH-LiFePO4-Electric-Scooter-E-Bike-Li-Fe-Battery_W0QQitemZ220219504629QQihZ012QQcategoryZ11332QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That'll handle 20 amps continuous, 40 amps maximum. Should be fine, as long as you don't plan on racing from hot off the charger until the battery is dead.

Though, the LiCo's you linked would be a bit cheaper.

 

[mlrosier]

Thank you once again for the reply. I may email Ping and see if he can make a me a singular 72v 10Ah pack and how much it would be with the PCB and Charger. If I buy two of these, I'd have to connect them in Parallel, and I'm not sure I'm too confident in my abilities to do that.
Ok, so if I do this, without the yet to be determined shipping cost from ebikes.ca, I'm at $1706. Might as well figure around $1800 total, said and done. Would I be crazy to spend that kind of money on a first time E-bike? Would death from the girlfriend be imminent? I have the money. Just now a question of worth I guess.

I do have one more question. If I were to buy the DeWalt 36v packs. How many would I have to buy to get the 72v8Ah spec? They are pretty reasonable on Ebay.

 

[lazarus2405]

Ahhh, but I thought you didn't want to crack open things and start soldering!

No worries on that; there are plenty of threads here that will walk you through any disassembly or soldering work required. And there are always folks to answer questions.

The cells contained in the DeWalt packs, made by a123 systems, are simply the best there are. Fastest charging, fastest discharging, longest lifespan. Each cell is 3.3v 2.3ah, and each pack contains 10. For marketing purposes, they're called 36v (double the old tool standard of 18v), when they are in actuality 33v.

9 DeWalt packs would get you a 66v7Ah setup. That's 462 watt-hours, compared to the 576Wh of a 72v8Ah setup. When each DeWalt pack goes for $130 on ebay, it's very expensive. However, they're the best.

In my opinion, though, a better choice is the Milwaukee V28 batteries. Each pack is 28v3Ah, and is $85 on Amazon.com. Inside one are 7 4v3Ah cells made by a Canadian company called E-One Moli (we call the cells e-molis for short). Their lifespan may be shorter than the DeWalt ones, and they can be charged and discharged at a slower rate. However, it's still far and above what's needed for ebike applications. I bought six of them and three 1-hour chargers, for just a little over $600, for a 84v6Ah (504Wh) pack. I've been very happy with mine, so much so that I just ordered 6 more to run 112v9Ah. Others here, such as Jondoh, Maytag, Lowell, and others have had very good experiences with these.

To use these, you'll need to solder wires to bypass the BMS for discharging. (You'd have to do the same with DeWalt packs.) My packs, until I decided to rewire them, simply had two thick wires coming out of the cases, with Andersons on the ends, and to charge them I just slid it on the stock charger.

If I was to recommend anything for a battery, it'd be those Milwaukee packs. Best price to performance ratio out there. I should have said so sooner, but you seemed averse to the idea of cracking open power tool batteries.

 

[mlrosier]

So the Milwaukee 28v batteries. That sounds like a good plan. If I get them, can you offer me some how-to on cracking them open and re-configuring them for charging and such? I do have some electronics experience, mainly in soldering PCBs for a local company. In me saying I was uncomfortable, I'm incomfortable, because of the cost. I'd hate to spend $600 on batteries, and then short them out or blow them up because I connect something wrong.
What other things would I need to make a pack if I bought them? Connector wise? Can you show me what your configuration looks like, and how you have the chargers set up?
I'm going to check Amazon right now for them and the chargers. If you have any direct links, that would be awesome. Thank you again.

 

[mlrosier]

Ok, I found the milwaukee packs on a good site (Amazon didn't have enough of them available for the price that Toolup has them for)....

http://www.toolup.com

I can get 6 of them and 3 chargers for $613.97, including shipping.

Add that cost to the Ebike.ca order I have set up, and the total comes to $1591.79 So it's actually going to be about $200 less if I go this route. If I can get some help on cracking the packs open and instructions on what needs to be soldered, I will go this route.
If you're using the same pack, what kind of range and speed do you get? I'm getting excited. I've been wanting to do a project like this for a long time, and I think the feeling of accomplishment that I get from doing it will be well worth the investment.

So, from the sounds of it, this is what I will need to do a complete conversion. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Milwaukee Batteries and Chargers $606.82
Shipping $6.97

Total = $613.79

(Ebike.ca)
Ebikes.ca Order Form
Quantity SKU Code Description Each Total

1 T-HTwist Crystalyte Half Twist Throttle $15.00
1 C7248SI 36-72V 48A Start Immediate Digital Controller

(IRFB4110 Mosfets) $275.00

1 FW5Spd1428 5 Speed Freewheel $18.00
1 CA-DP Direct Plug-in Cycle Analyst $125.00
1 SiliconeTape 10 Foot Roll of Silicone Tape $10.00
1 M5304R26 26 inch 5304 Rear Wheel..~0.95 kph/V $485.00
1 BattCable12 12 Gauge 90 cm (3 foot) Battery Cable w/

Andersons $5.00
1 Diode40A 40 Amp Schottky Diode Parallel Battery Joiner

$45.00

Subtotal $978.00

Total (USD) $978.00



SubTotal = $1591.79

Thank you again.

Also, looking at a rack and back now, and would these work for the Mongoose XR-250?

Rack: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t..._shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=A2TE9IQP68MWQU&v=glance

Bag: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...t_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

 

[lazarus2405]

This:
http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-48-11-2830-V28-Lithium-Ion-Battery-Pack/dp/B0009F5E5M/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1207684879&sr=8-1

and this:
http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-48-59-2818-18-Volt-28-Volt-Lithium-Ion/dp/B000JD0F3K/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1207684879&sr=8-4

Those are what I bought, and from Amazon. The retailer you found looks good, as long as they're not more expensive after shipping. Looks like Amazon has the chargers for $10 less.

The number of chargers is up to you. Each will charge one pack in about 50min. I felt three chargers was the best compromise, giving me a 2-hour total charge time. With my new build, I'll be using four chargers with 12 packs. Twice the capacity, charged in 3 hours.

There are also "V18" Milwaukee lithium batteries. Same exact cells, but there are 5 in each pack instead of 7, for 20v3Ah. Generally they're a worse value.

I've been wanting to do a project like this for a long time, and I think the feeling of accomplishment that I get from doing it will be well worth the investment.

Exactly. Exactly. And once you ride it, you'll be amazed. It's really, really fun. And it's extremely quiet and, if done correctly, can be very stealthy. Also, it's a matter of utility for me. I'm an undergrad and don't own a car. The bike is a far cheaper alternative (no gas, parking, insurance, gas...) to get me and a backpack around town.

Connector-wise, you'll want about a foot of 10 or 12awg wire (preferably half a foot red, half black) for each cell, and a red/black pair of Anderson powerpoles for each. Make sure to get a few spare pairs. Anderson Powerpoles are great because they make a solid connection that can carry a lot of current. A number of ebike places sell them, including ebikes.ca, who use Andersons on all their motors and controllers. Or you can look at http://www.powerwerx.com/. You'll want the 45amp connectors, which will fit 10awg wire and snap on to your controller's battery connection.

Make sure to get a fuse holder and fuse, to protect your battery. In the unlikely event that something in the controller blows and shorts the battery, that fuse will blow. It won't protect your controller, but it could save your batteries.

You don't need that battery joiner, since you can just twist two wires together and add solder. What that will do, however, is prevent current from flowing back into the battery. This prevents regenerative braking, which the Crystalyte controllers can't do but can be done by a bit of hack work. I'm not sure what else is in the box, but it isn't standard equipment.

I understand your fear of damaging the batteries. Very, very well. I thought I had discharged one of mine too deeply once and permanently killed it. Scared the crap out of me.

I've extremely briefly shorted my batteries several times while soldering to them (soldering a wire to the positive and the solder wire touched the battery's ground. There's a spark and the solder wire breaks at that point), and I shorted two connectors while plugging things in parallel (poor heatshrinking, and eighty-four volts arced over one of my nuckles, leaving a nasty burn). Be careful, since anything over 50v can be lethal. However, I have never destroyed a battery. If you keep color conventions on everything (red and black), you'll steer clear of the really dangerous shorts.

As for depth of discharge, if you run at 84v, hot off the chargers your pack will be close to 87v. After just a little usage, it'll quickly drop to ~84v and stay there for most of the discharge. Then, it'll fall off towards zero once it's 80% discharged. A safe low-voltage cutoff is ~77.7V (3.7v per cell). If you get to 76V (3.6v per cell), cut the power and pedal home. If you keep draining them afterwards, they can hit zero volts, at which point the cells reverse and are permanently damaged or destroyed.

Here's a discharging curve of the cells:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/files/emoli_discharge_292.jpg

That bit at the end, where the voltage drops down to nothing, is what you want to avoid.

 

[lazarus2405]

That rack and bag setup will work. Dunno about how it will last in the long-run, though. It might fail. I'll let you know, though, since I have the exact same one. :wink:

I ordered them together: http://tinyurl.com/355gvz

Six Milwaukee packs, in their cases, will fit perfectly, though a bit snugly, in the center compartment of that bag. It's really convenient.The cases about double the volume of the packs, but they offer nice protection. If you remove them from the cases, they only take up half the volume. If you don't need the space, just leave the batteries in the case (with, of course, a hole for the two wires to come out).

 

[lazarus2405]

Oh, power and range. Well, first off, I actually have a 5303 motor by mistake (I ordered a 5304). That said, at 84v and 55 amps, it tops out at 47mph on the flat with no wind. I should be able to get it to 50 if I get in an aerodynamic tuck.

A 5304 in the same setup should be able to do 40mph, and top out around 42 or 43mph. The upshot of this is that the 04 will have about 5lbs more thrust at very low speeds, and thus slightly better off-the-line acceleration.

This, of course, drains the batteries pretty darn quickly. Wind resistance, and thus the power requirement, increases exponentially with speed. I get about 10 miles in traffic, going 35-45mph. If I slow it down, to about 25mph, I can get more like 17-20 miles. At 20mph, the batteries'll give me 25 miles. Any lower and I'd be able to actually pedal, so I wouldn't know!

 

[mlrosier]

Thank you again so much for the reply. Ok. I am sitting here with all of these pages up, ready to hit the checkouts and find out what this is going to cost me. I guess the only other thing that I would like to know is, how did you crack the batteries open, and how did you wire them? Do you have any photos that I could use for reference? Was there any particular type of solder and soldering gun you used to solder the connections? Also, you mentioned something about soldering wires to bypass the BMS for discharging. I'm not sure what that is. Any photos or links to photos that show how to do it?
Thank you again for all of your help.

 

[lazarus2405]

Well, I'll throw up some pictures after I eat. Pitas sound good...

Anyway, the BMS is the Battery Management System. It protects the batteries in several ways, along with charging and balancing the cells. The problem is that if you stick more than two packs in series, the voltage will blow the BMS. Since it's an integral part of charging, and we want to use the stock chargers, doing so would leave you with no way to charge the pack and a funny look on your face. The workaround is to open the case and solder thick wires, one on the positive tab and the other on the negative, to use while discharging the battery. This takes the BMS out of the loop for discharging, but leaves it intact for charging. So, then you can still just slide it onto the stock charger. Open it up, solder the wire, cut holes in the case for the wire to exit, screw it back together, and put Andersons on the ends of the wire. It's that simple.

 

[mlrosier]

Awesome. I'm looking forward to the pictures though, for sure. I really appreciate you taking the time to do that for me.
So, I just went ahead and ordered everything. I have an adrenaline rush. Is that weird? lol. I sent an order to Ebikes.ca for the majority of it, but have to wait for them to get back to me on cost and shipping before I can pay for it. My total came to $1654.60. And I'll have packages coming in from about 4 or 5 different places.
I just seriously hope I don't regret this endeavor in any way. That'd be an expensive regret. lol. And I certainly hope that I'm mechanically inclined enough to get this all put together without losing any needed body parts, or burning anything down.
I'm not completely newbish though. As I said, I have done some soldering work, and mechanical work on things. I built a hydrogen producing cell, which is still unfinished, but is efficient enough to produce lots of gas, and I managed to not kill myself in doing that. That involves messing around with alot of voltage and current, and water, which when combined with ignorance, most certainly can equal instant death. So I'm thinking that if I can do that, I can probably do this just fine. The huge difference between the two is price. I spent about $200 total on building the hydrogen cell. This project is already at almost $1700, and I haven't even started yet. lol.