New guy needs help making a decision...

[OptimusPrime]

I am looking for a hub motor kit. I have been reading constantly for the last few weeks and although I have been able to figure out that I want a hub motor rather than a mid drive, I don't know which would be best for my needs. Most all I can find is advice about how to go fast, I want the opposite. My requirements are rock solid dependability, enough power to haul my 190 pound butt, and good range. I am happy in the 10 to 12 mph area so speed is the least of my concerns. And finally, who are the quality sellers of these kits and who sells the best motors and kit parts? Any help you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated .

 

[Marin]

My go to ebike enablers are lunacycle.com and golden motors Canada.

Lots of products along with good service.

Plenty of kits will serve your purpose, just get something simple to start.

I like my magic pie 5

 

[ddk]

grin technology is a pretty good guy that isn't afraid of anything....
and is a reliable supplier, but

The supplier I use most often is Hightechbikes.com in SF CA, (few 100 miles south of me) for Aotema brushless DD motors in various speed winds...

but not listing your location makes it kinda hard to make real recommendations.
Reliability issues are almost always due to the connectors supplied with a kit. Car-type bullets used for power phase connections with some kits are barely able to handle 5A long term, where most kit controllers supply 10-20A per phase. Molex connectors are just basically terrible connectors that should never be used for anything. (my opinions be strong while I be weak)

I no longer use golden motor after I was twice charged ~$20 for ordering "out-of-stock" items that weren't listed as out- of- stock on Gary's webpage. (the question is: Why was I charged at all?)
I complained the first time and stopped doing business with him the second time.

 

[wesnewell]

Not enough info. Where are you? Read this.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/posting.php?mode=reply&f=3&t=76275

 

[dogman dan]

Rock solid hubmotor = direct drive hub motor.

190 pounds is nothing, but it does tend to take the smallest geared hub motors out of the equation if you have steep hills.

Going slow. This sort of opens a can of worms. I get crap for liking the slower wind motors as much as I do. I can't say they are more efficient, but I can say that a slower wind is good for going slow, and that going slow is efficient. All kinds of variables can creep in that make one setup suck on a hill and another do better. So some info on how steep and long your hills might be will be helpful.

But on the flat, ALL motors will shine for going slow, including the fastest winds. Most kits now have displays that allow a choice of max speeds, so you can reduce throttle hand fatigue by choosing a level that matches your desired speed. This allows you to hold the throttle in the mid to high range at the speed you want to go. As for efficiency, you really can't overkill it. Unlike gas engines, an oversized electric motor does not waste any energy going slow. So for 10 mph, on the flat, a tiny 250w geared motor can run at 200w very efficient. But an enormous 3000w motor running at 200w, will go about the same speed, and use you guessed it, 200w.

So in summary, we have no idea what motor you need for hills till you tell us about them. and ANY motor will work great for you for going 10-15 mph on the flat. But of course, a huge motor running 72v will cost a lot more for no reason if you live where it's flat. ANY 36v direct drive kit will likely serve your needs quite well. What you want to do, even if hills are up to 8% grade steep, can be done by a 36v kit with 20 amps controller. But if you have one nasty hill that's 15% grade, then you need the 48v version of the kit.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Well let me add that I am in Pennsylvania in a town right along the Delaware river. In fact, it is where General Washington crossed during the revolution, hence the name Washington Crossing. The hills here are I would say moderate for the most part but there are a few tough ones, I would rather err on the side of more power so 48v it is then! Good to know that a more powerful motor can still go slow, I was worried about that. I am thinking of a geared hub motor because I like the freewheel design. So do you think that a larger 500w would be better than a 250 for my purpose?

 

[LockH]

Hi Opti... Dunno if ya stumbled across this ES thread? "High Voltage versus High Current":
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=43974

Anyway. Hope it helps! G'Luck
L

 

[nutnspecial]

Hey fellow pennsylvanian!

The most appropriate answer might come from searching out various 'w' geared builds and finding or asking for info that can be directly related to your speed/weight pref, terrain/distance req, and desire for human input.

Humans can fairly easily overcome 'moderate' grades with 150-200w of their own power @ 10mph for reasonable distances, but erring to the side of caution because of my own inexperience with geared hubs combined with insufficient data imo, I'd simply say 'YES' in answer to your question- there is little harm in going a little bigger!

do you think that a larger 500w would be better than a 250 for my purpose

 

[LockH]

So do you think that a larger 500w would be better than a 250 for my purpose?

Careful. "larger" may be a euphemism in "Ebike terms". Where larger may imply more mass ("heavier") in your example for the motor, but also for the size (weight) of the "gas tank".

And EV Rule 101? Basically any/all weight bad (unless going with gravity aka down hills). There's an overhead where you end up expending *more* energy, especially to accelerate/go up hills.

Ya want "energy efficient"? Ya go aerodynamic a la "velomobile"... and at least recumbent-style versus the usual "barn door" of an upright cyclists body.

BTW, in Ebike terms, 70mph is NOT a "welcoming speed".
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/07/pennsylvania_70_mph_speed_limi.html

Cheers
L

 

[Drunkskunk]

The 4 top vendors for quality, knowledge, and customer support are:
ebikes.ca
lunacycle.com
em3ev.com
ebikekit.com

Looking at google street view, it looks like you'll be encountering some long climbs up to 5% grade, with most of the hills being in the 3% range. Considering your weight, that eliminates 250w motors totally. 350w motors would climb up the 5% with your weight, but might melt from the effort. Overheating is the real problem.
Really you need a minimum of a 500w motor. In this case, it's not for the added power, but for the added ability to handle heat and strain. Bigger is tougher. Tougher lasts longer.

You want "Rock solid dependability", that eliminates the gear drive motors, though you might want to reconsider a bit.
Gear drives from the vendors I listed will in the "Very dependable" category. Less dependable than a "Rock solid dependabile" direct drive with only 1 moving part, but still very dependable. The advantages of the gear drives are lower weight, freewheel action when you don't want to use them, and more starting torque.
The direct drives advantages are near silent operation, higher cruising efficiency, and near total reliability. They also have some advantages that you personally don't seem to need, like being capable of going much faster, being more powerful, and taking huge heat loads from climbing or hauling or general hooligan abuse.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Great info so far! Let me ask, if you run a DD at low speed is that bad for the motor? Or is it only a bad thing if it is under a large strain? In other words does limping along at 8-10mph on the flat adversely affect things?

 

[wesnewell]

No. I've been running my 1000W dd motors for 5 years at ~12 mph on 24s rc lipo 90%+ of the 15K miles.