New Puma finally on the road! Lotsa questions...

[Uplink]

I ordered a new Puma with a Point 1 LiPoly from EV Tech back in June. Unfortunately, it was on the bench ready to ship when Doug had that fire around the 4th of July. He finally cobbled together my order, except I got the little 15 Amp controller instead of the 35 Amp unit I paid for. I expect he will be good for the upgrade once he gets some more product in. At least I'm on the road!

Bike weighs in at 58 pounds including battery, tools, GPS, rack, and bag.
At the start of the test ride, I went 1 mile uphill, with 250 feet elevation gain. Slowed to 11 mph on the steepest part of the hill (moderate pedaling). Stopped and check the temperatures, and the controller was pretty hot (couldn't keep your hand on it, so I moved it from inside the bag to on top of the bag. Then I rode 2 miles downhill to the marina, which cooled things down a bit. I was getting about 22mph on the gps on the flats.

When I got down to the marina, they were having an Italian Car & Bike show...
Test ride was 6.5 miles, and the end voltage was 38.4 When I hooked the battery up to the charger, I noticed the fan in the charger wasn't working. When I checked it after an hour, it was up to 40.2 volts, the charger was hot but you could hold your hand on it - still no fan so I aimed a blower fan on it. The kit arrived without a single scrap of paper - no assembly instructions, not battery or charger instructions. So I have a few questions:
1. Does anyone know if the chargers that come with these kits have a thermostat on the fan? It's a 3 AMP 42 volt model.
2. Can anyone point me to a discharge curve for these 37v. Point 1 LiPO's?
3. Is my temporary torque arm setup adequate? I'm relying on the weld shoulder on the droupout to hold the arm from moving.

Comments and questions greatly appreciated!

 

[Jozzer]

congrats on the puma, they are hard to get!
Don't know about the point 1 lipo's, Knoxie had several, but he's missing from the boards these days.
For the torque arm, I'd say it will hold ok at 15A, but when you get the bigger controller you will need to beef it up. If the axle is at least a good fit in the stays thats a good start, but i'd fix it firmly to the frame. It looks like you'd need to make some kind of clamp, with a spacer to brace it against the frame. Honestly these motors are very torqey, and at higher volts/amps i've had to fit a 6mm torque arm bolted onto BOTH sides of the axle to stop it turning!
Good luck, and have fun!

 

[The7]

3. Is my temporary torque arm setup adequate? I'm relying on the weld shoulder on the droupout to hold the arm from moving.

You need a clamp like this to hold onto the frame.

 

[The7]

Wonder if you could tell us the color code connection between Puma motor and Xlyte controller.
Apparently they are NOT connected with the same color between the motor and the controller.

What color of motor winding wire to what color of Xlyte power wire?
(3 colors: yellow, green and blue)

What color of motor Hall wire to what color of Xlyte Hall wire?
(5 clolors: yellow, green, blue , red and black)

 

[Uplink]

The7 - I'm using the non-crystalyte 15 Amp controller that came with the Puma, but I seem to remember the color corespondence is detailed in a long thread about Maytag's Puma mods. Say, where can I get a clamp like that... I have some cat eye clamps that would work except they don't reach far enough...

 

[Jozzer]

I wrote colour coordinations in the other thread the7, where you commented....don't you believe me? :lol:

 

[Uplink]

Went for a longer test ride today - 15.8 miles on the GPS, with quite a few hills. I realized after the fact that I didn't start with a fully charged battery yesterday. Today's ride: 41.7 volts at the start, 38.5v. at the end after a half hour rest. I figure there is about 45% capacity left!

 

[The7]

I wrote colour coordinations in the other thread the7, where you commented....don't you believe me? :lol:

When I used Xlyte for AL1020;
Motor winding wire -- Xlyte Rrive wire
yellow -- yellow
blue -- green
green -- blue

Motor Hall wire -- Xlyte Hall wire
yellow -- yellow
blue -- green
green -- blue

Xlyle is configed by short-circuiting the reverse-link.
My connection is consistent because the motor winding wire and Hall wire have the same order of color.
All the measured current and no-load speed are identical with the stock Ananda controller.

You are using Xlyte for Puma. So you have a different color code.
Your connection is not consistent because the motor winding and Hall sensors are not the same!?
If you have an "wrong" relative phase shift between the Hall and the winding drive, the motor will be running at an poor pf and have high motor losses.
(Quite a no of Puma overheating cases when over-voltage in this forum!?)


But Uplink uses an non-Xlyte for Puma. So his color code would be different.
Uplink, is it an Ananda controller?

 

[Jozzer]

I dont understand the7, you asked Uplink how the x'lyte controller connected. His controller came with the puma from the start (it was the controller first shipped with the Puma), and presumeably has the same colour code as the motor.

The colour codes don't need to "match" the halls wires, just as long as what they are connecting to matches (if you get my drift). The combination I (and maytag) gave is the only one that works properly, and overheating as far as I know has only been a problem when over 1500w of power have been used.

 

[The7]

I dont understand the7, you asked Uplink how the x'lyte controller connected. His controller came with the puma from the start (it was the controller first shipped with the Puma), and presumeably has the same colour code as the motor.

The colour codes don't need to "match" the halls wires, just as long as what they are connecting to matches (if you get my drift). The combination I (and maytag) gave is the only one that works properly, and overheating as far as I know has only been a problem when over 1500w of power have been used.

I think I understand your saying.

Suppose Uplink wants to use Xlyte to replace his stock controller.
If he gets the (almost) same no-load current with Xlyte using your connection method as the stock controller, then the X-lyte could be assumed 100%correctly configged for the Puma.

If I were doing the job of Uplink, I would use my scope and DMM for the proper config.

It could not be configged 100% correctly if there is an 30deg relative phase difference between the Xlyte and the stock controller.
The motor would still work with this 30 deg difference, but the motor current will be at least 50% more and the copper loss in the motor will be at least double.

Comment:
The "no-load current" could be an indication for proper configuration.

 

[Jozzer]

I'm pretty sure the high power demands are due to the heavy wheel turning so fast. the power needed grows very sharply once the wheel is turning over 35mph I noticed, and the fannage/noise are quite scary by 55 mph. The motor must be turning hellishly fast too considering its geared. In fact, I believe the gear ratio is 6-1, I think that means the motor is doing around 4600rpm, I wouldnt be surprised if it got alittle innefficient up there :lol: (calculated from info on this site http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/reading/mph-rpm.htm)
I'll gladly try another combination if you can come up with one based on reasonable data however. Dont fancy chasing wild geese though.

 

[The7]

I'm pretty sure the high power demands are due to the heavy wheel turning so fast. the power needed grows very sharply once the wheel is turning over 35mph I noticed, and the fannage/noise are quite scary by 55 mph. The motor must be turning hellishly fast too considering its geared.

Sounds reasonable.
Could you give the no-load current when using 36V or 48V?

 

[oatnet]

Hey I am thinking about that torque arm... It looks like it mounts like the torque arms for coaster brakes, which apply a force opposite to the hub motor. I would definitely clamp it to part of the triangle, but I think the lower bar (which would support a tension fitting) is too far away.

Looking at your picture of the arm... When going forward, the wheel will rotate counter-clockwise. The hubmotor will be trying to spin the axle clockwise, pressing the torque arm towards the upper bar of your rear triangle. This means you wouldl need a compression, instead of tension, mount. Did I think that through correctly?

Anyhow, I am used to seeing tension mounts on torque arms, but maybe it doesn't matter.

-JD