New York State Senate Bill S1357 (Definition of ebike)

[DrkAngel]

Although not a senior citizen, at 51- I certainly am not a kid anymore. ... If they catch me picking up my 75 lb bike however and carrying it up the two huge flights of stairs to the train station, this may not work... :lol:

Careful throttle use and an eBike will almost walk itself up the steps.

I geared hub motor and lithium battery in your backpack and you can go stealth mode.

 

[amberwolf]

Careful throttle use and an eBike will almost walk itself up the steps.

Some kits, like the Fusin "1000W" in my review thread from 2012 have a "walk" mode, where it provides minimal power and limits speed to assist someone in moving the bike (or other EV) while walking alongside it. Can be used for stairs, ramps, etc. I used the feature a couple of times as an experiment walking up the underpasses on the canal trails and such, as those are very steep ramps for me and my knees.

 

[arkmundi]

Although not a senior citizen, at 51- I certainly am not a kid anymore. If challenged by LE; I have mulled over the idea of claiming that I am disabled and need the electric assist to allow me to ride. the thought being that this will elicit pity by LE or fear of discriminating against the disabled.

OK, I do that. But truthfully, I am an able bodied "disabled" having an atrophied right leg from early-life polio, meaning I have a hard time walking compared to most. So I read up on the MBTA's rules for bikes, wheelchairs and the disabled, finding the rules to be much relaxed for those who can claim it. Its just too much for me to resist using my ebike at the train stations and I find its really no annoyance to the foot bound crowd, as I go with the flow. It is however the obligation of all the train station personnel to warn me. I kindly look at them and say "I'm disabled and this is an electric assist ." Works like a charm. :lol:

 

[Nancy]

Is an Ebike in NY currently illegal or is it just a non-entity. Passing the bill would only serve to make every Ebike on Endless Sphere illegal as we all build for more than 20mph.

Queens, for example, has passed a local ordinance limiting eBikes to 15mph, seemingly, enforcing their legality otherwise.
Other than that, I have not heard of any New Yorkers being prosecuted specifically for riding an ebike, meeting federal guidelines.

Ebikes, if technically illegal, seem not to be enforced against.

I have heard of eBikers being prosecuted for accidents, wrong way on one way streets, sidewalking, speeding, reckless endangerment etc.
On the other hand, "responsible" eBiking seems to be readily accepted.
Obey traffic laws, don't flaunt your motor only capability, retain the appearance of constant pedal assist ... and you'll very likely never have any problems.

That does seem to be what's happening, DrkAngel. I live in Queens in an area with quite a few restaurants that deliver. Over the past five years or so, the vehicle of choice for restaurant delivery personnel around here has become the electric scooter - the type that look like small motorcycles and are powered by SLA batteries. It has become a common sight around here to see delivery guys going about their work propelling their scooters by motor power alone. In fact, I can't recall right now ever seeing one of them use the pedals except for maybe a few rotations as they start moving from a full stop. I'm happy to say that I have yet to witness one instance of a delivery guy being pulled over by police for questioning or inspection of vehicle. At the same time, I'm also happy to add that I've yet to see any delivery guy operating his e-scooter in an unsafe manner.

The eBike Bill, having been passed by the Assembly, for the past 6? years, seems to have placed eBikes in something of a legal "limbo".

A potential "crime", in the process of being legalized drops the infraction into a grey area of the law.
Legalization "in progress" creates a legal muckmire that most courts don't care to get bogged down in.

Perhaps the New York State present standoff is the ideal state of "legality" for eBikers?

I have read of some rumblings from non-electric bicyclists in this city claiming that e-bike riders using the bike lanes pose a danger to them. While I don't doubt there have been some instances in which an e-biker was at fault in an accident with a standard bicycle, I'm sure such incidents are far less common than accidents that occur between non-electric bicycles and automobiles or pedestrians. As long as this remains the case, the "potentially dangerous vehicle" stigma some people might now hold against e-bikes will gradually be replaced by acceptance that results from increased exposure to people operating their e-bikes in a responsible and safety-conscious manner. As with any new technology that eventually becomes an accepted part of everyday life, there are always some people who initially react with unfounded fears ans suspicions of that technology and its users. It's important that we do our part to allay those fears by showing them through our responsible actions that e-bikes are not something that will pose any added danger to anyone. At the same time, it's important that we make an effort to educate our representatives as to what e-biking is all about, and make sure our voices are heard by them. This will ensure all future e-bike legislation is realistic in nature, and does not infringe on our rights as law abiding and POLITICALLY ATTENTIVE CITIZENS WHO VOTE.

 

[aroundqube]

Although not a senior citizen, at 51- I certainly am not a kid anymore. If challenged by LE; I have mulled over the idea of claiming that I am disabled and need the electric assist to allow me to ride. the thought being that this will elicit pity by LE or fear of discriminating against the disabled. If they catch me picking up my 75 lb bike however and carrying it up the two huge flights of stairs to the train station, this may not work... :lol:

No esculator or elivator available? Methods new universal 3 speed switch might help with stair climb mode since it has adjustable pots.

 

[DrkAngel]

The Electric Bicycle Bill has been sitting before the New York State lawmakers since the beginning of the Century.
But never passed!
Do not blame the Assembly!!!
The Bill passes the Assembly ... unanimously! ... almost every year.


2001-2002
A00091 Summary:
BILL:A00091DDATE:05/30/2002MOTION: YEA/NAY:138/0

2003-2004
A00588 Votes:
BILL:A00588 DATE:03/31/2003MOTION: YEA/NAY:147/0
BILL:A00588 DATE:03/08/2004MOTION: YEA/NAY:144/0

2005-2006
A00071 Votes:
BILL:A00071 DATE:05/02/2005MOTION: YEA/NAY:138/0
BILL:A00071 DATE:01/17/2006MOTION: YEA/NAY:135/0

2007-2008
A00189 Votes:
BILL:A00189 DATE:02/26/2007MOTION: YEA/NAY:136/0
BILL:A00189 DATE:01/23/2008MOTION: YEA/NAY:140/1

2009-2010
A02393 Votes:
BILL:A02393 DATE:03/02/2009MOTION: YEA/NAY:127/1
BILL:A02393 DATE:02/22/2010MOTION: YEA/NAY:145/0

2011-2012
BILL:A01350 DATE:03/07/2011MOTION: YEA/NAY:129/5
BILL:A01350 DATE:01/23/2012MOTION: YEA/NAY:136/4

Every single year ... the State Senate kills, or allows the bill to die!

Why?
Such a disparity of, unanimous support from the Assembly vs continued Senate rejection, is confusing ... to say the least ...

 

[50yearoldebiker]

Nice work on these updates, I pass Policemen every day while on my E-Bike here in Nassau County they dont give me a second look , hope it stays that way.

 

[DrkAngel]

The Electric Bicycle Bill has been sitting before the New York State lawmakers since the beginning of the Century.
But never passed!
Do not blame the Assembly!!!
The Bill passes the Assembly ... unanimously! ... almost every year.


2001-2002
A00091 Summary:
BILL:A00091DDATE:05/30/2002MOTION: YEA/NAY:138/0

2003-2004
A00588 Votes:
BILL:A00588 DATE:03/31/2003MOTION: YEA/NAY:147/0
BILL:A00588 DATE:03/08/2004MOTION: YEA/NAY:144/0

2005-2006
A00071 Votes:
BILL:A00071 DATE:05/02/2005MOTION: YEA/NAY:138/0
BILL:A00071 DATE:01/17/2006MOTION: YEA/NAY:135/0

2007-2008
A00189 Votes:
BILL:A00189 DATE:02/26/2007MOTION: YEA/NAY:136/0
BILL:A00189 DATE:01/23/2008MOTION: YEA/NAY:140/1

2009-2010
A02393 Votes:
BILL:A02393 DATE:03/02/2009MOTION: YEA/NAY:127/1
BILL:A02393 DATE:02/22/2010MOTION: YEA/NAY:145/0

2011-2012
BILL:A01350 DATE:03/07/2011MOTION: YEA/NAY:129/5
BILL:A01350 DATE:01/23/2012MOTION: YEA/NAY:136/4

Every single year ... the State Senate kills, or allows the bill to die!

Why?
Such a disparity of, unanimous support from the Assembly vs continued Senate rejection, is confusing ... to say the least ...

Interesting development!
2013 -
BILL A1618A eBike Assembly Bill
BILL A5058 Duplicate? eBike Assembly Bill
Bill S390A Senate eBike BILL

Strange is the duplicate Assembly Bill of nearly identical structure!
Sad ... is that each Bill has a single, lonely sponsor!

Wait! ... miracle of miracles!
There is yet another eBike Bill ... effectively.
BILL A6659: Defines the term power-assisted bicycle
Same as the other eBike BILLS except ... it also allows gas motors (up to 48cc).

Someone is making a concession to the oil industry?
Who is the lacky sucking at the teat of the oil industry ... lets look!

OMG! While any other eBike Bill has 1 lonely sponsor, the gas bike (Smog Hog) Bill has sponsors falling all over each other, trying to claim credit (garner oil donations?).
"A6659-2013:

Sponsor:
Oaks /
Multi-sponsor(s):
Ceretto,
Corwin,
Crouch,
McLaughlin,
Montesano /
Co-sponsor(s):
Barclay,
Walter "

Definition of Power-assisted bicycle -
"S 102-C. POWER-ASSISTED BICYCLE. A BICYCLE WITH TWO OR THREE WHEELS
WHICH HAS A SADDLE AND FULLY OPERATIVE PEDALS FOR HUMAN PROPULSION AND
ALSO HAS AN ELECTRIC OR INTERNAL COMBUSTION MOTOR. THE POWER-ASSISTED
BICYCLE'S MOTOR SHALL: HAVE A POWER OUTPUT OF NOT MORE THAN ONE THOUSAND
WATTS OR HAVE A PISTON DISPLACEMENT OF NOT MORE THAN FORTY-EIGHT CUBIC
CENTIMETERS; BE INCAPABLE OF PROPELLING THE DEVICE AT A SPEED OF MORE
THAN TWENTY MILES PER HOUR ON LEVEL GROUND; AND BE INCAPABLE OF FURTHER
INCREASING THE SPEED OF THE DEVICE WHEN HUMAN POWER IS USED TO PROPEL
THE DEVICE AT OR MORE THAN TWENTY MILES PER HOUR."

Please notice this limits motor engine size to 48cc, fairly common for 2 stroke engines.
However, this excludes the more efficient, less polluting, better fuel economy, 49cc 4 stroke engines!

On purpose?
Some "conspiracy" to limit fuel economy?
Trying to make sure oil consumption isn't reduced too much???

 

[grindz145]

I'm just reserved to staying in Gangster-Mode for life. Thanks for keeping this thread up to date though man.

 

[DrkAngel]

Interesting development!
2013 -
BILL A1618A eBike Assembly Bill
BILL A5058 Duplicate? eBike Assembly Bill
Bill S390A Senate eBike BILL ...

In response to why S390 dies in the Senate, after being "Committed to Rules".

"Committed to Rules" refers to a Bill being considered by the Rules committee. This is usually where the Bill dies. The committee "Chair" - Dean G Skelos can singly decline to have the Bill considered and kill it.
(I will post up Dean G Skelos contact info when Bill reaches Rules Committee)

4/15/2014 - Bill has been committed to the Transportation Committee
The Chair - Joseph E Robach can singly delay or kill the Bill by not "considering" it.
This Bill is passed, usually unanimously, every year! ... in the Assembly ... but some conspiracy, or individual kills it every single year in the Senate!

Find Joseph E. Robach Online
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
YouTube

eMail contact page

...
Strange is the duplicate Assembly Bill of nearly identical structure!
Sad ... is that each Bill has a single, lonely sponsor!

Wait! ... miracle of miracles!
There is yet another eBike Bill ... effectively.
BILL A6659: Defines the term power-assisted bicycle
Same as the other eBike BILLS except ... it also allows gas motors (up to 48cc).

Someone is making a concession to the oil industry?
Who is the lacky sucking at the teat of the oil industry ... lets look!

OMG! While any other eBike Bill has 1 lonely sponsor, the gas bike (Smog Hog) Bill has sponsors falling all over each other, trying to claim credit (garner oil donations?).
"A6659-2013:

Sponsor:
Oaks /
Multi-sponsor(s):
Ceretto,
Corwin,
Crouch,
McLaughlin,
Montesano /
Co-sponsor(s):
Barclay,
Walter "

 

[DrkAngel]

Interesting development!
2013 -
BILL A1618A eBike Assembly Bill
BILL A5058 Duplicate? eBike Assembly Bill
Bill S390A Senate eBike BILL ...

In response to why S390 dies in the Senate, after being "Committed to Rules".

"Committed to Rules" refers to a Bill being considered by the Rules committee. This is usually where the Bill dies. The committee "Chair" - Dean G Skelos can singly decline to have the Bill considered and kill it.
(I will post up Dean G Skelos contact info when Bill reaches Rules Committee)

4/15/2014 - Bill has been committed to the Transportation Committee
The Chair - Joseph E Robach can singly delay or kill the Bill by not "considering" it.
This Bill is passed, usually unanimously, every year! ... in the Assembly ... but some conspiracy, or individual kills it every single year in the Senate!

Find Joseph E. Robach Online
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
YouTube

eMail contact page

...
Strange is the duplicate Assembly Bill of nearly identical structure!
Sad ... is that each Bill has a single, lonely sponsor!

Wait! ... miracle of miracles!
There is yet another eBike Bill ... effectively.
BILL A6659: Defines the term power-assisted bicycle
Same as the other eBike BILLS except ... it also allows gas motors (up to 48cc).

Someone is making a concession to the oil industry?
Who is the lacky sucking at the teat of the oil industry ... lets look!

OMG! While any other eBike Bill has 1 lonely sponsor, the gas bike (Smog Hog) Bill has sponsors falling all over each other, trying to claim credit (garner oil donations?).
"A6659-2013:

Sponsor:
Oaks /
Multi-sponsor(s):
Ceretto,
Corwin,
Crouch,
McLaughlin,
Montesano /
Co-sponsor(s):
Barclay,
Walter "

Up for consideration again this year.
Please comment at comment portion after description of Bill.
Make your voice heard!
Spur on NYS Senators to finally take action, or spurn them!!!

Bill S997-2015 - Defines the term electric assisted bicycle

Bill A233-2015 - Defines the term electric assisted bicycle

And ... The gasoline abomination Bill ...

Bill A5998-2015 - Defines the term power-assisted bicycle

Vulgar and inappropriate comments are not allowed.

 

[Ykick]

Thanks Da, will do....

 

[DrkAngel]

Horribly sad - eBike Bill (electric assist) has a single sponsor ...

Sponsor:
Gantt

eBike & gas motor bike Bill has 10 sponsors!

Versions A5998-2015
Sponsor:
Oaks
Multi-sponsor(s):
Ceretto,
Corwin,
Crouch,
McLaughlin,
Montesano
Co-sponsor(s):
Barclay,
Finch,
Lawrence,
Walter

Sucking up to oil producers?

Power assisted bike Bill limits gas motor size to 48cc.
This effectively eliminates most 4 cycle motors ( typically 49cc+) effectively legalizing only 2 cycle motors at 1/2 the efficiency and 2x the pollution.
I commented that the "power assist" version is an abomination against the economy and the ecology

 

[LewTwo]

Horribly sad - eBike Bill (electric assist) has a single sponsor ...
---snip---
Power assisted bike Bill limits gas motor size to 48cc.
This effectively eliminates most 4 cycle motors ( typically 49cc+) effectively legalizing only 2 cycle motors at 1/2 the efficiency and 2x the pollution.

Someone will build one and stamp it 47-1/2cc like Bafang stamps 750 on all their top end mid drives. :wink:

 

[DrkAngel]

Up for consideration again this year.
Please comment at comment portion after description of Bill.
Make your voice heard!
Spur on NYS Senators to finally take action, or spurn them!!!

Bill S997-2015 - Defines the term electric assisted bicycle

Bill A233-2015 - Defines the term electric assisted bicycle

And ... The gasoline abomination Bill ...

Bill A5998-2015 - Defines the term power-assisted bicycle

Vulgar and inappropriate comments are not allowed.

Took 10 days ... but comments about the NYS eBike Bill were finally moderated and posted up.
NYS citizens! Please comment or reply to comments.

 

[newschoolnerd]

Thanks for posting this and thank you for your concern for this. We too have been working real hard on trying to get legislation passed. Last year we were in Albany giving test rides to legislators and they were very supportive. There wasn't enough support last year though and the bill died after running out of time.

Fortunately, this year is different. The electric bike industry has banned together to support this effort along with many organizations including New York Bike Coalition, People for Bikes, Transportation Alternatives and the Bike Walk Alliance. A lobbying firm has been hired and some good movement has been made. We're not happy with everything that's going on, but the consensus is, if we can get something in the books this year it will be a success.

The bill is up for the third reading in the senate which is the final vote on the floor. Hopefully this will happen next week and then all we have left is the Assembly which should take place after their 3 week recess which starts in April.

I welcome any interested parties to reach out as I try to stay abreast of whats going on. I'm betting the farm on this one as I prepare to open an electric bike store in Brooklyn this spring.

More background on this:
http://nybc.net/what-we-do/e-bikes/

 

[DrkAngel]

Thanks for posting this and thank you for your concern for this. We too have been working real hard on trying to get legislation passed. ...

2 issues with the proposed NYS Bill - Law.
Well, besides that the Senate fails to pass it.

1. Bill bans operators, or passengers, under 16 years old.

2. "HAVE A MAXIMUM SPEED OF LESS THAN TWENTY MILES PER HOUR ON A PAVED LEVEL
SURFACE WHEN POWERED SOLELY BY SUCH A MOTOR WHILE RIDDEN BY AN OPERATOR
WHO WEIGHS ONE HUNDRED SEVENTY POUNDS; AND BE INCAPABLE OF FURTHER
INCREASING THE SPEED OF THE DEVICE WHEN HUMAN POWER IS USED TO PROPEL
THE DEVICE AT OR MORE THAN TWENTY MILES PER HOUR."
(Currie and others are now building a great eBike advancement! Mid drive motor with severe current limitation restricting motor output to ~350w. 350w is the required power to motivate a mountain bike at the "legal" 20mph. The advantages are continued 350w assist to near 30mph, allowing a fit cyclist to maintain 30mph "keep up with traffic" speed and greatly increasing eBike efficiency and range. )

 

[gogo]

Why the support for stinkbikes? Could it be that most voters want neither electric nor stinkbike plugging up their roads, so to make damn sure the less offensive ebikes don't proliferate, lump them together. That makes it easier to ban them as a group when the stinkbikes start becoming a 'problem'.

Its a setup to be politically exploited later. Is it obvious that I hold a dim view of most politics and politicians, and my fellow citizens?

 

[DrkAngel]

And ... The gasoline abomination Bill ...

Bill A5998-2015 - Defines the term power-assisted bicycle

Off Highway Motorcycle (4 stroke) outputs more traditional pollutants than 10 cars ... per minute!

Off Highway Motorcycle (2 stroke) outputs more traditional pollutants than 20 cars ... every minute ... !!!

 

[DrkAngel]

May 19, 2015
Passed in the Senate!
1st time ever! ... 59 Aye 3 Nay

Waiting for the Assembly now ... usually passes unanimously ...

 

[LockH]

May 19, 2015
Passed in the Senate!
1st time ever! ... 59 Aye 3 Nay

Waiting for the Assembly now ... usually passes unanimously ...

NO news since May? BTW. On that page NYS folks can have a say?

do you support this bill?
Aye
Nay

 

[DrkAngel]

2016 session has begun and Bills start over.
Please post up your support and comments.

Senate Bill S997

Assembly Bill A223

I posted up:

A233 - Avatar
• an hour ago Hold on, this is waiting to be approved by NY Senate Open Legislation Service.

This Bill merely equates bicycling capability for the disabled, handicapped or less fit to that of a reasonably fit cyclist.
It has got to be the quintessential eco² advancement.
Ecological x economical.
$0 cost to the State with substantial cost and health benefits for untold New Yorkers.
Assembly support has been admirable except for failure to consider during the 2015 session.
Please consider promptly.

Thank you in advance

S997 - Avatar
• 21 minutes ago Hold on, this is waiting to be approved by NY Senate Open Legislation Service.

This Bill merely equates bicycling capability for the disabled, handicapped or less fit to that of a reasonably fit cyclist.
It has got to be the quintessential eco² advancement.
Ecological x economical.
$0 cost to the State with substantial cost and health benefits for untold New Yorkers.
I see it as a shame, verging on a crime, that this Bill has died in the Senate for more than a decade!

 

[babuska20010]

Over a year ago the Senate Transportation Committee referred the bill to the Codes Committee and on Jan.6, 2011 Codes finally referred it back to Transportation...
http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S1357-2011

Tks
Lock

I don't see the need for all the work or lack of work they are doing on the bill. Anything that is more restrictive than the fedral ebike law is not valid anyway.
I always rode mine when I lived there without any fear of fines. Always keep a copy of the law with me on my bike, but was never stopped. Any state with a law stating they are illegal is not valid a law, as per the federal regulation as written.
Bill

 

[gogo]

… Any state with a law stating they are illegal is not valid a law, as per the federal regulation as written.
Bill

…

Please see this commentary for a legal view:
Legal analysis: Confusion over electric bike regulations - in particular:

The other problem is that these federal regulations only affect the manufacture and first sale of these devices, not where, when, how, who and under what other conditions (age limits, licenses, insurance, registration etc.) they can be operated. The federal law has no “preemptive effect” over such state laws.

 

[babuska20010]

… Any state with a law stating they are illegal is not valid a law, as per the federal regulation as written.
Bill

…

Please see this commentary for a legal view:
Legal analysis: Confusion over electric bike regulations - in particular:

The other problem is that these federal regulations only affect the manufacture and first sale of these devices, not where, when, how, who and under what other conditions (age limits, licenses, insurance, registration etc.) they can be operated. The federal law has no “preemptive effect” over such state laws.

I spoke with Congressman Clifford Stearns personally regarding the bill, back in 2001. He was one of the sponsors, and did specifically state that the intent of the law was to promote the use of electric powered bicycles and to classify low speed bicycles, as defined in the law, as nothing more than a bicycle and must be treated as a bicycle. In the act it clearly states that they can not be treated as a motor vehicle, does "supersede any state law or requirement with respect to low speed electric bicycles to the extent that such state law or requirement is more stringent than the federal law or requirements referred to in subsection (a)." The law is not only for the manufacturer to follow and doesn't matter if it is purchased new or used.