NOOB BATTERY OPTIONS ?

[02jze]

I want to create a wish list for new batteries.. 48v slas is my current set up and i dont beleive they have even half the dicharge rate i need to run my setup well. The 1200 watt cyclone motor im using goes very well and is my daily commuter to where ever i need to go. When i pull 30 amps on a full charged battery the battery lights go red right away and lvc isnt long followed. Slas are great for limping around but id like to do some longer distances and better speeds.
Budget is strick and im pretty clueless in battery technolgy.
OPTIONS ??

Turnigy 5000mAh 6S 20C Lipo Pack x4 ? 2 in series to in parraell ? to get 44v 10ah? what volt is that fresh off the charger ?
what else do need such as a balancer and charger ? where to buy ?

Ping 48v ???
whats the discharge rate on a ping battery and best place to buy ?

A123 cells ?, Headway just names ive heard but cant find lots of info about how to use and where to buy.

Last night on maybe my longest ride yet i used 7ah which might have been around 10-12km and using it hard/fast with a few decent hills.

EDIT

I think ill go this way.

Turnigy 5000mAh 6S 20C Lipo Pack

With this charger http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/u...Balance/Charger

Is this charger balancer plug and play for noobs ?
Can some one show me a diagram (for noobs) on best way to wire these into 48v with around 10ah ?

What do i need to buy to prevent over discharging them ??

 

[wasp]

I want to create a wish list for new batteries.. 48v slas is my current set up and i dont beleive they have even half the dicharge rate i need to run my setup well. The 1200 watt cyclone motor im using goes very well and is my daily commuter to where ever i need to go. When i pull 30 amps on a full charged battery the battery lights go red right away and lvc isnt long followed. Slas are great for limping around but id like to do some longer distances and better speeds.
Budget is strick and im pretty clueless in battery technolgy.
OPTIONS ??

Turnigy 5000mAh 6S 20C Lipo Pack x4 ? 2 in series to in parraell ? to get 44v 10ah? what volt is that fresh off the charger ?
what else do need such as a balancer and charger ? where to buy ?

Ping 48v ???
whats the discharge rate on a ping battery and best place to buy ?

A123 cells ?, Headway just names ive heard but cant find lots of info about how to use and where to buy.

Last night on maybe my longest ride yet i used 7ah which might have been around 10-12km and using it hard/fast with a few decent hills.

hot off the charger 25v so 50v your sla's are probably 54v off the charger...if you want a little more run 15s2p would be 63v hot but you could charge to say 4.1v per cell and they would last longer to boot
i run lipo and love them...

 

[dogman dan]

This is the tough nugget, when budget is one of the main considerations. With a 24v EVG system, I got good results paralelling nicad and lead, so I had 12 ah of lead and 8 ah of nicad. But double it for 48v, and phewww that's just too heavy.

Normally we won't recomend a noob to go straight to lipo, but there is that possibility if you educate yourself enough and understand the risks. Safety is an issue, can't just charge anywere without thinking about it like with lifepo4. But in a way, the real risk is just mismanaging the pack and ruining packs with an accidental overdischarge. No way is it cheap to get 50 cycles instead of 500.

I'm just about to leap into lipo, so I'm just parroting what others with experience have written here.

But the wisdom is avaliable here on the lipo threads, if you can just hold yourself back when riding enough to make use of it. One enthusiastic day and oops, there goes $400. Your 12s lipo plan sounds good to me. You'll need 4 bricks of lipo, a 6s charger or several, a 12v power supply,( the slas?) and some kind of voltage monitoring stuff. I bought the cheapie voltage alarms before I realised one of the 15 buck voltage monitors had an adjustabel lvc. Setting that lvc alarm high might be real good. Some kind of wattmeter would be good too to monitor the ah used so you know when to stop giving full throttle. I'm told even a short voltage drop can killl lipo, so you can't risk a big sag when you hit throttle. So $250 usd for the lipo, and another $100 to $200 for chargers and pack management, connectors, etc. Plus shipping. In USD $500 should do it.

The ping option is there, but if you do that get a 20 ah pack. That would put your peak discharges below 2c which is the max. My use of pings for the last two years indicates a ping is really happiest when the average discharge rate is 1c or less, and depth of discharge is under 80%. You can run them till the bms cuts out anytime, but they stay really balanced if you keep to 1c and 80% dod. A 48v 10 ah ping could be paralelled with the lead, it would weigh about 10 pounds more. Carry the ping in a backpack? Pingbattery .com

If you can scare up some decent prices on headway cells, then you could run them with a ping bms with no problems, since you only need 30 amps, that would be just about an ideal setup. Then you could save some by only having a 10 ah pack. That option might be a lot better than lipo for convenience and safetey reasons. You could even use your sla charger if you wanted to.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Hi there....l was wondering, just how dangerous is Lithium Cobalt {LiCoO2} ???

Just what do you have to do to have an accident with batteries of this chemistry?

Also, what is the difference between IFR and EFR in the terminology?

Thanks.

@ OP:

A123 22650 is the daddy of all LifePo4 batteries. It is incredibly powerful. Very safe...and very expensive.

 

[Old_Scoot]

If you are looking for something in the 48v 10ah range it is hard to beat the Headways for ease of build. Tons of good information in the Headway pack builder's thread. I'm loving my 48v Headway pack.

The problem with the cylindrical A123s and tool pack batteries is that you need so darn many of them to get to discharge rate that will work with your 1200 watt motor. You'll end up with something a lot larger and costlier than 10ah.

I'm still a noob, but I think Headway, or Lipo (if you do your homework) is the way to go in the 48v 10ah range.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

If you are looking for something in the 48v 10ah range it is hard to beat the Headways for ease of build. Tons of good information in the Headway pack builder's thread. I'm loving my 48v Headway pack.

The problem with the cylindrical A123s and tool pack batteries is that you need so darn many of them to get to discharge rate that will work with your 1200 watt motor. You'll end up with something a lot larger and costlier than 10ah.

I'm still a noob, but I think Headway, or Lipo (if you do your homework) is the way to go in the 48v 10ah range.

Headway is LifePo4, correct?

 

[dogman dan]

Yes, headways are lifepo4, A123's are lifepo4. Some toolpacks are a123, the others I'm not sure which kind of lithium they are.

 

[Old_Scoot]

You might have a look at the cell_man 15ah LiFePO4s.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=14832&start=210

Assembly isn't going to be as easy as the headways.

 

[amberwolf]

Hi there....l was wondering, just how dangerous is Lithium Cobalt {LiCoO2} ???

Just what do you have to do to have an accident with batteries of this chemistry?

The easiest way to do it is to overdischarge them, then charge 'em back up fast.

I'll let you know about other ways to do it as I find them with mine....

 

[wineboyrider]

I run a 36v 20ah ping on my cyclone setup and can get up to 27 miles without pedaling. I don't have the time to mess with lipos. I like to plug my all 3 of my 36v pings into the same charger at work and home and let the bms do the work. I think the pings are great value, but I did have to run the smaller ah batteries in parallel.

 

[dogman dan]

So what amps do you pull wineboyrider, is it as high as 30? or even 30 peak? 22ah of ping should be able to do 30 amps, but it would like 22 amps a lot better.

 

[wineboyrider]

My controller is rated at 35 amp and I have a turnigy watt meter, but I don't have it mounted on the handlebars, yet so I think average around 30. I'm not sure if I know how to read all the information the turnigy gives you??, yet. Does one of those numbers tell you without looking at it directly? It's kind of hard to read it when it's mounted behind your butt. I don't ride it full throttle, almost never in fact now, because I have stripped internal gears and shredded chains all costing me money.$$$But, my new ping 36v 20 ah seems to work great with it the led watt meter on the cyclone controller never get's low on the short 3 mile trips I make back and forth daily . But, I don't ride it hard any more around 3/4 throttle only. I don't run my two pings in parallel anymore now that I have my new battery, plus it fits right under my frame inside of an old camera bag and the weight is really well distributed now (no more wobble)

 

[amberwolf]

Does one of those numbers tell you without looking at it directly?

It "saves" (until power is disconnected) the following:
Ap peak amps
Wp peak watts
Vm lowest voltage
Ah amps used over time
Wh watts used over time
and rotates those around on the changing part of the display, IIRC.

If you know how long you were actually riding, you can divide up the Ah and/or Wh to find out your average. If you know how far you rode, you can divide up the Wh to get Wh/mile.

If you want to know actual current at any specific point, it'd have to be on your bars or otherwise visible during that moment.

I don't ride it hard any more around 3/4 throttle only.

If your controller has a hi/med/low switch available on it, then you can set it to low or med and use full throttle, which can be easier on your hand/thumb.

 

[wineboyrider]

Awesome thanks Amber Wolf! That helps me a lot. I do have a Bell speedometer/odometer so I'll start recording and let you uns know. The cyclone doesn't have any of those type of settings, but I would like to have a thumb throttle someday and I already seen on this forum how to connect one.
This forum rocks!

 

[dogman dan]

Thanks, I wasn't sure what the cyclone normally draws in current, what the amps of controllers for them are nowdays, etc. I haven't owned one yet, so still pretty ignorant of them.

 

[02jze]

my cyclone 1200 watt 35 amp controller, Info from turnigy meter
speeds are estimates as i dont have a speedo.
If im in no hurry and i want long battery life ill cruise aroung at 10 amps, Even without pedaling on flats this will get me around 8 ~ 12kmph
up to 15 amps and light pedaling will get me up most hills at about the same speed.
if i dont have a long trip but im in no hurry ill sit on about 15 to 20 amps on flats some light pedaling gets me around 30 kmph.
And when im running late. ill cane it harder at 25 to 30 amps, Full throttle on flat no pedaling top speed around 50 to 55 kmph it will seattle on 25 amps.
With my battery fully charged it hits lvc in only a few mins if i use anything over 25 amps, My bike and i would weigh about 160kg full throttle off stand still will pull the most ill ever see at around 45 to 48amps and gets going quickly.

 

[dogman dan]

Thanks for the info. I thought they were supposed to draw about 25 amps, but then I'd read posts from guys a year ago or so that seemed to be pulling a lot more. Most likely they choose the wrong gear and hammer the motor up a hill or something. You tend to hear from guys who's stuff isn't working, rather than hear from the ones having no problems.

 

[02jze]

My build is in the non hub motor section under the cyclone thread.. Im pretty happy with it. its my only form of transport and i do around 15 to 20k's a day on it.

 

[02jze]

Ok so im pretty sure ill go this way..

Nah ill edit my first post.