Nuvinci developer kits for cheap

[rkosiorek]

That is my pedal gearing. my goal is that my motor at full rpm is geared to match my full pedaling speed. I don't plan on attempting any land speed records. Instead i want lots of bottom end pulling power. I want to be able to keep up with city traffic between stop lights in the inner city. that means good acceleration and lots of motor assist at start up.

thinking that my max pedaling cadence will be in the area of 120rpm, input to the Nuvinci will be 240RPM. i will gear my 4800rpm motor down so that it will match that 240rpm by the time it hits the NuVinci.

i may not be able to do burnouts, but i might be able to win a tug of war with Doctor Bass. or at least not look too embarrassed.

rick

 

[GGoodrum]

On mine, I'm using the pedals mainly for "backup", so I don't care so much about matching cadence. I'm using a 44T up front and a standard 16T freewheel on the NuVinci. For the motor, the pedal freewheel is attached to a 36T sprocket, which is driven by a 13T freewheel on the output shaft of one of Matt's v4 reduction drive. The drive has an initial reduction of 4:1, so the total reduction is about 11:1. The motor is a 7-turn 3220, which has a kV of 96, and it is being run on a 12s LiPo setup.

-- Gary

 

[mclovin]

If anyone is interested I can supply a 3D CAD model I made of the 171. I made it by measuring my Nuvinci. It's acurrate where it counts. There is a bit of guesstimation but not on anything that seems important i.e. flange outside dim, spoke circle pattern etc.

If you are a 3D modeler you should be able to add this to your model and use it as an accurate reference.

 

[amberwolf]

Defnitely interested, as it would save a lot of work building that part of the bike as a model, if I end up needing to do it for geometry and toher experimentation until I fix the welder.

 

[mclovin]

Here's a STEP file version. You'll need to unzip it.

If you spot any errors let me know and I can edit the file.

 

[Erogo]

Hey McLovin - what about the insides

 

[StudEbiker]

Just spent some time on the phone with Nuvinci tech support and the guy I spoke to (Rob) recommended alternating spoke heads on all wheel builds. This is contrary to what is recommended in the manual, but he said this is how all the wheel builders at Nuvinci were building the wheels. He had an Ego scooter (20" wheel) nearby with a dev kit on it and he checked it and it had alternating spokes.

Just a heads up for anyone that's interested.

 

[amberwolf]

What was his reasoning for one vs the other?

 

[StudEbiker]

Just simplicity and a little more strength I think. He didn't have a definitive answer, but he said that was how Nuvinci was building them.

 

[dumbass]

What my builder told me is that you want alternating sides so the spokes have a slight contact with the crossing spoke to add strenght to each other. Like a bundle of sticks are stronger then one.

Bob

 

[Jay64]

So if that is how they are lacing them, why are they saying to not do it in the manual? :?

 

[StudEbiker]

I did notice while on the phone with him that the online technical manual is dated 2008. Maybe they have changed their thinking since then and just haven't updated the manual.

 

[E-racer]

Is it possible to remove the free wheel on this type of hub so you can continue to run Regen with the CVT?

 

[drewjet]

No the freewheel is internal, it is part of the design

 

[dumbass]

Is it possible to remove the free wheel on this type of hub so you can continue to run Regen with the CVT?

Actually it depends on your setup. If you use a double sprocket setup as most of us are doing you will not have a freewheel for the motor. In my setup I use a standard 16t freewheel for the peddle crank (on the outer left side of the Nuvinci). And a 22t non-freewheel sprocket (on the inside of the left side of the Nuvinci) for the motor. In my situation I do not have/want regen so I use a freewheel on a jackshaft between the Nuvinci and the motor. So if you want to use regen just don't install a freewheel. REmember the Nuvinci can accomidate a freewheeled sprocket and a non-freewheeled sprocket. Do with them as you wish.

Bob

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

OK, I just ordered mine and I asked about the manual (non-electric) conversion for this kit in case you don't like the electric shift. I remember someone else posted that they would send this to you for free. It's correct that they will send you a manual shifter with your order if you request it. However, they said it would not have the same shift range and it is not a simple P&P. The hub is not a standard 171. This unit is a heavy duty version of the 171 with additional balls added for more torque and speed. Plus the end connection is setup (square instead of round) to except the electrical unit. Therefore, a modification would be required to use a manual controller. I don't think I am interested in using it manually but I would like to be able to use it with a manual electric switching for manual shifting.

BTW, I asked how many of these units they have andthey indicated they have about 700 left now and were selling about 1 per day and a lot are going to people from ES. They are also monitoring ES to see how we are using them.

Bob

WOW! I had no idea this was a heavier duty version with more gearing range!

I'm definitely purchasing one tomorrow! This is so exciting! That and the increased efficiency over manual shifting really seals the deal for me. 8)

Slow Down........I think you missunderstood what I said. I said that if you modified this unit to a mechanical manual setup by using an adapter cable setup that they will send you for free this unit the unit will not accomplish it's full stated range. But yes they told me that this unit is a heavier unit they a standard 171. I think they mentioned it had 2 additional balls added for better speed and torque. Sorry if I gave you the wrong idea. But I think I did mention earlier in this thread that I have been using a 171 for several years. And I don't use the bottom 20% of it's range. I could change my drive sprockes to utilize this currently unused 25% on the top end. My point is few people are going to really need all the range these things have.

Bob

Thank you for the information, but you need to understand that I am running a very wide range, and I use every bit of the NuVinci 's gear ratio, and I use a 4 bolt compact MTB crank to get the smallest possible off the shelf granny gear, so I would definitely use all the range!

Also, I wouldn't be using it in manual mode, I am really interested in the increased efficiency with the electronically mapped shifting! 8)

finally took back my Kindle, so I'm going to order one first thing tomorrow, and probably save it for a trike.

 

[amberwolf]

Actual progress on the drivetrain design:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=472458#p472458
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=472515#p472515

I think I can actually build this....

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

So if that is how they are lacing them, why are they saying to not do it in the manual? :?

Good question, it might be partially because these hubs for bicycles are as much for R&D to develop the drive it's self as anything, and changes are on-going.

My wheel builder talked to both NuVinci and someone she knew that had build one before, and alternated the heads as well, and I was concerned for a bit, good thing it's the approved way and I guess it goes to show that even the manual can get you into trouble.

 

[Jay64]

Well, I guess I'll just have to run it as is, and see how long it lasts. Then if they break quickly, try it the other way and see how long that lasts. Just hope the spokes don't break while driving out of a corner. :lol:

 

[dumbass]

Thank you for the information, but you need to understand that I am running a very wide range, and I use every bit of the NuVinci 's gear ratio, and I use a 4 bolt compact MTB crank to get the smallest possible off the shelf granny gear, so I would definitely use all the range!

Also, I wouldn't be using it in manual mode, I am really interested in the increased efficiency with the electronically mapped shifting! 8)

finally took back my Kindle, so I'm going to order one first thing tomorrow, and probably save it for a trike. [/quote]

Understood...I just didn't want you to think I was saying there was some major difference between this unit and a standard 171N. The 171N has a 50% to 150% range whereas, this unit has a 50% to 175% range. And yes it is heavier duty but I have no idea how much with the addition of 2 balls.

Mine is being delivered today. I was supprised they only charged $8.21 for delivery (UPS).

Bob

 

[rkosiorek]

Of course it could also mean that either way is acceptable. on their website they have a pdf with some durability data published in 2010

http://www.fallbrooktech.com/docs/N360_durability.pdf

at the bottom they have 2 photos of the hub on a test stand. one of the photos definitely shows the hub laced as a cross-2 alternating heads.



if you look at their pictures the crossing spokes do not touch each other. at least not unless you bend the spokes around each other at the 2nd crossing.

Wire wheels for Cars and Motorcycles are designed so that the spokes do not touch or rub against each other. at least none of the ones i've seen do. and from memory they are laced with the heads all one way. what seems most important is that the spokes do cross at least once. i have never seen a car or motorcycle wheel without one cross. I have only seen radial lacing on front chopper wheels and i have always wondered about their strength.

for the heads there does not seem to be a definitive answer. the only definitive thing is always have a cross. that has not changed from the manual or the newest info.

rick

 

[E-racer]

Actually it depends on your setup. If you use a double sprocket setup as most of us are doing you will not have a freewheel for the motor. In my setup I use a standard 16t freewheel for the peddle crank (on the outer left side of the Nuvinci). And a 22t non-freewheel sprocket (on the inside of the left side of the Nuvinci) for the motor. In my situation I do not have/want regen so I use a freewheel on a jackshaft between the Nuvinci and the motor. So if you want to use regen just don't install a freewheel. REmember the Nuvinci can accomidate a freewheeled sprocket and a non-freewheeled sprocket. Do with them as you wish.

Bob

[/quote]

Can you post a picture of this setup? I'm having trouble grasping it. Is there a thread on drive setups through this thing?

 

[rkosiorek]

follow this link for an example of the dual sprockets on the right side.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15574&start=30#p275732

the inside (larger) sprocket is fixed to a threaded collar, that threads into a standard freewheel. pedal chain goes to the freewheel. motor chain goes to the larger sprocket.

if you pedal, you will turn the nuvinci as well as the motor sprocket. if the motor is running it will drive the NuVinci, but the freewheel disconnects it from the pedal chain.

rick

 

[E-racer]

Thank you that's exactly what I needed! Let me ask this one more time just for complete clarity. The Nuvici can transmit torque in either direction correct? I have dreams of down shifting the nuvinci and spinning up the 80-100 bldc for increased regen.

 

[dumbass]

Actually it depends on your setup. If you use a double sprocket setup as most of us are doing you will not have a freewheel for the motor. In my setup I use a standard 16t freewheel for the peddle crank (on the outer left side of the Nuvinci). And a 22t non-freewheel sprocket (on the inside of the left side of the Nuvinci) for the motor. In my situation I do not have/want regen so I use a freewheel on a jackshaft between the Nuvinci and the motor. So if you want to use regen just don't install a freewheel. REmember the Nuvinci can accomidate a freewheeled sprocket and a non-freewheeled sprocket. Do with them as you wish.

Bob

Can you post a picture of this setup? I'm having trouble grasping it. Is there a thread on drive setups through this thing?[/quote]

Let me try to explain it this way. There is a misconseption that there is a freewheel built into the Nuvinci hub but there isn't. IHowever, if you turn the hub backward it seems like it is freewheeling but it's only that the drive balls disengage because it's actually designed for single directional power. Now assuming you were going to use the Nuvinci on a common bike for peddling only. You would need ito install a sprocket onto the hub for your drive chain. The easiest was to accomplish this is by using a standard freewheel with and quantity of teeth you need. This would safegard you when you coast. The hub would continue to turn but the freewheel would prevent the sprocket to turn and in turn your peddle chain would not turn. This is exactly the way most bikes work today.

Now lets say you want to install a second chain. This one if for the motor. You can do this be installing a special sprocket to the inner most area of the hub on the same side as the peddle chain. The only problem is there in no room for a second freewheel on this sprocket. Therefore, you need to mount a freewheel somewhere else. In my setup I have a secondary reduction shaft (jack shaft). So I installed a freewheel in this shaft. So my motor drives the input of the jack shaft and then the output of the jack shaft (this is where the freewheel is located) drives the live sprocket on the hub. Pic #1 shows the 2 sprocket on the hub. The outter sprocket has a freewheel and is driven from the peddle crank.

I had a few pics maybe they will help. Pic #2 you can see the 2 drive chains. the upper chain is for the motors and the lower is the peddle. pic #3 complet bike and you can see the jack shaft just behind the motors pic #4 a closeup of the motor with the jack shaft with the motor freewheel.



Bob