E-racer
1 kW
Can you get a Nuvinci developer kit with 32 hole hub? I'd like to avoid buying a new rim.
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Nuvinci developer kits for cheap
- Thread starter johnrobholmes
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StudEbiker
100 kW
I'm pretty sure they are all 36h E-racer.
Drewjet: How did the racing go? I have my battery problems sorted out for awhile and would like to start testing the NV again. I would love to see how you set your shift tables if you can upload them.
Drewjet: How did the racing go? I have my battery problems sorted out for awhile and would like to start testing the NV again. I would love to see how you set your shift tables if you can upload them.
Today, when visiting Mdd0127, I finally got a chance to feel what pedalling a NuVinci is like (the 360, rather than the 171), and it is a huge powersucker. 
Felt like I was going up a decent grade even at the lowest gear, and even if going slightly downhill it felt draggy. I don't recall the gearing ratio used from pedals to chain, so perhaps that was the wrong ratio.
If it was not, though, then I wouldn't want to have the NuVinci to pedal thru at all without a motor to help. I suspect it's going to make a fairly serious efficiency hit to run the motor thru it.
I did think the manual shifter "inchworm" idea is cute and really simple and neat, though; I hadn't seen one in person before, and in the pics and drawings you can't really see how ingeniously simple it is.
FWIW, I had checked last week with Fallbrook about the manual shifter cost to use with the devkit, and they want $13.92 plus shipping (which would probably bring it to $20 or thereabouts, at a guess). Too rich for me, but worth it if I had the money, should I decide to use manual shifting instead of automatic (unlikley).
Felt like I was going up a decent grade even at the lowest gear, and even if going slightly downhill it felt draggy. I don't recall the gearing ratio used from pedals to chain, so perhaps that was the wrong ratio. If it was not, though, then I wouldn't want to have the NuVinci to pedal thru at all without a motor to help. I suspect it's going to make a fairly serious efficiency hit to run the motor thru it.
I did think the manual shifter "inchworm" idea is cute and really simple and neat, though; I hadn't seen one in person before, and in the pics and drawings you can't really see how ingeniously simple it is.
FWIW, I had checked last week with Fallbrook about the manual shifter cost to use with the devkit, and they want $13.92 plus shipping (which would probably bring it to $20 or thereabouts, at a guess). Too rich for me, but worth it if I had the money, should I decide to use manual shifting instead of automatic (unlikley).
amberwolf said:Today, when visiting Mdd0127, I finally got a chance to feel what pedalling a NuVinci is like (the 360, rather than the 171), and it is a huge powersucker.
I just tested the 171 auto shifting on my RC bike for the first time yesterday. and my impression too, was that is does sap a significant amount of power.
After replacing the derailleur with the Nuvinci, I lost about 4 or 5mph from the top speed, no matter how I set the top gear ratio.
The gear hub actually gets slightly warm after a few miles, while driving at 30mph.
On the plus side:
The servo gear shifting is really neat, 3 gear change modes available at the flick of a switch ( 2 x auto shift maps + manual mode) all work faultlesly.
For the servo, shifting under power is no problem.
This hub is clever as a bucket of spiders, and managed to put a huge smile on my face when I tried it out
Burtie
ps. any recommendations for a good freewheel about 17 or 18 tooth to use with it?
I have already tried a Dicta and an ACS, and they both slip when badly abused (4kw), unless it is the bmx chain skipping at the back, it is hard to tell . Am I gonna have to spend mega bucks on a white industries one ? :?
drewjet
10 kW
Racing did not go well 
We had our first loss in 3 years of racing.
I do not fully blame the Nuvinci, but....here is what happened
We used the Nuvinci in the first race, At the start of the race I was smoking fast. Lapped mast everybody in a short time. But then that is usually the case. By the 30 minute mark I was already running low on battery and had to drive super conservative. I ended up in third place 3 laps down. Winner had 98 laps 2nd place 96, we had 95.
We have a 2 hour break to charge batteries and tweak. I found that the connector to the actuator controller had broken a solder joint. I know at the start of the race it was working as you can if you pay close attention feel and hear the shifting. I didn't notice it stop working so I don't know at what point in the race it stopped working. On top of that my Cycle Analyst is having an issue. It works fine for a while but then after about 10 to 15 minutes, it will start giving false amp reading and the screen will go blank. ( I ordered a new one) I do know I used all AH out of my battery as the last 5 minutes were painfully slow. The batteries took a full 30 AH back in them. We switched out the Nuvinci for a fixed hub.
The second race went much better. My buddy drove, and again was driving conservative based on wrong readings from the CA, he ended up only using 25 AHs. He could of driven much faster but the wrong readings threw him off. Winner had 100 laps, we had 99 (and could of easily had 102 or more had he driven harder with correct CA readings). At the end of the race he was still going fast, much faster than anyone else.
So until I can get a track where I can do full testing of Nuvinci vs. fixed gear it will remain off of my racer.
Below is a copy of my shift tables. The top set of numbers are the speed and the bottom set are the shift position. The forum will not allow CSV files to be up loaded.
Speed 0.5 1 1.5 2 2.5 3 3.4 3.9 4.4 4.9 5.4 5.9 6.4 6.9 7.4 7.9 8.4 8.9 9.3 9.8 10.3 10.8 11.3 11.8 12.3 12.8 13.3 13.8 14.3 14.8 15.3 15.7 16.2 16.7 17.2 17.7 18.2 18.7 19.2 19.7 20.2 20.7 21.2 21.7 22.1 22.6 23.1 23.6 24.1 24.6 25.1 25.6 26.1 26.6 27.1 27.6 28 28.5 29 29.5 30 30.5 31.5
Shift Pt 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 50 50 120 120 190 190 260 260 260 300 300 300 350 350 350 400 400 400 450 450 450 500 550 550 550 550 600 600 600 625 625 650 650 650 650 675 675 675 685 685 685 685 685 685 685 690 700 700 710 710
We had our first loss in 3 years of racing.
I do not fully blame the Nuvinci, but....here is what happened
We used the Nuvinci in the first race, At the start of the race I was smoking fast. Lapped mast everybody in a short time. But then that is usually the case. By the 30 minute mark I was already running low on battery and had to drive super conservative. I ended up in third place 3 laps down. Winner had 98 laps 2nd place 96, we had 95.
We have a 2 hour break to charge batteries and tweak. I found that the connector to the actuator controller had broken a solder joint. I know at the start of the race it was working as you can if you pay close attention feel and hear the shifting. I didn't notice it stop working so I don't know at what point in the race it stopped working. On top of that my Cycle Analyst is having an issue. It works fine for a while but then after about 10 to 15 minutes, it will start giving false amp reading and the screen will go blank. ( I ordered a new one) I do know I used all AH out of my battery as the last 5 minutes were painfully slow. The batteries took a full 30 AH back in them. We switched out the Nuvinci for a fixed hub.
The second race went much better. My buddy drove, and again was driving conservative based on wrong readings from the CA, he ended up only using 25 AHs. He could of driven much faster but the wrong readings threw him off. Winner had 100 laps, we had 99 (and could of easily had 102 or more had he driven harder with correct CA readings). At the end of the race he was still going fast, much faster than anyone else.
So until I can get a track where I can do full testing of Nuvinci vs. fixed gear it will remain off of my racer.
Below is a copy of my shift tables. The top set of numbers are the speed and the bottom set are the shift position. The forum will not allow CSV files to be up loaded.
Speed 0.5 1 1.5 2 2.5 3 3.4 3.9 4.4 4.9 5.4 5.9 6.4 6.9 7.4 7.9 8.4 8.9 9.3 9.8 10.3 10.8 11.3 11.8 12.3 12.8 13.3 13.8 14.3 14.8 15.3 15.7 16.2 16.7 17.2 17.7 18.2 18.7 19.2 19.7 20.2 20.7 21.2 21.7 22.1 22.6 23.1 23.6 24.1 24.6 25.1 25.6 26.1 26.6 27.1 27.6 28 28.5 29 29.5 30 30.5 31.5
Shift Pt 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 50 50 120 120 190 190 260 260 260 300 300 300 350 350 350 400 400 400 450 450 450 500 550 550 550 550 600 600 600 625 625 650 650 650 650 675 675 675 685 685 685 685 685 685 685 690 700 700 710 710
drewjet
10 kW
Now for some more bad news on the Nuvinci. DO NOT GO OVER 5000 WATTS!!!!.
I also installed a Nuvinci on my race bike build http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32486
I am in the testing phase right now. I have been hitting it with about 7500 watts and everthing has been fine. It is so cool to have this thing shift. Acceleation is awesome from a dead stop up to max speed of 48 MPH.
However, after about 50 to 70 miles of testing it is starting to fail. I posted what ids happening on the Nuvinci forum http://nuvinci.informe.com/forum/general-discussion-f7/nuvinci-making-a-bad-noise-t615.html Here is a copy of my post that explains it
I have put maybe 50 miles or so on my bike build using the Nuvinci and an Etek motor. I have pulled a max of about 7500 watts. It took quite a few attempts, but I have the shift map pretty close to what I want. Anyways, yesterday, after a pretty hard ride, it started making a loud noise. Almost like an air ratchet or impact gun. When It makes this noise you get no power to the wheel.
If I would ease into the throttle and keep the watts below 3000 it wouldn't do it. I felt the hub between the spokes and it was pretty warm. I could keep my hand on it, but warmer than what I would expect.
I let it rest till today. first acceleration and it made the noise. Came to a stop and then took off again. No noise. Rode about 3 miles heavy on the throttle. No noise. Then all of a sudden it started again. Same thing, if I go easy no noise, full throttle= noise. I felt the hub and this time it was warm, much cooler than yesterday.
This is my shift table for the race bike. It definately needed a different approach. The bike would accelerate fast than the actuator could keep up with, so I had to start at a higher gear. It also seamed like fewer shift points worked better.
Speed 1 2.1 3.1 4.1 5.2 6.2 7.2 8.3 9.3 10.3 11.3 12.4 13.4 14.4 15.5 16.5 17.5 18.6 19.6 20.6 21.7 22.7 23.7 24.8 25.8 26.8 27.9 28.9 29.9 31 32 33 34 35.1 36.1 37.1 38.2 39.2 40.2 41.3 42.3 43.3 44.4 45.4 46.4 47.5 48.5 49.5 50.6 51.6 52.6 53.7 54.7 55.7 56.7 57.8 58.8 59.8 60.9 61.9 62.9 64 65
Shift Pt 175 300 300 300 300 300 300 300 450 450 450 450 600 600 600 600 600 600 600 600 750 750 750 750 750 750 900 900 900 900 900 900 900 900 900 900 900 900 900 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977
Beware how much power you put through your Nuvinci
I also installed a Nuvinci on my race bike build http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32486
I am in the testing phase right now. I have been hitting it with about 7500 watts and everthing has been fine. It is so cool to have this thing shift. Acceleation is awesome from a dead stop up to max speed of 48 MPH.
However, after about 50 to 70 miles of testing it is starting to fail. I posted what ids happening on the Nuvinci forum http://nuvinci.informe.com/forum/general-discussion-f7/nuvinci-making-a-bad-noise-t615.html Here is a copy of my post that explains it
I have put maybe 50 miles or so on my bike build using the Nuvinci and an Etek motor. I have pulled a max of about 7500 watts. It took quite a few attempts, but I have the shift map pretty close to what I want. Anyways, yesterday, after a pretty hard ride, it started making a loud noise. Almost like an air ratchet or impact gun. When It makes this noise you get no power to the wheel.
If I would ease into the throttle and keep the watts below 3000 it wouldn't do it. I felt the hub between the spokes and it was pretty warm. I could keep my hand on it, but warmer than what I would expect.
I let it rest till today. first acceleration and it made the noise. Came to a stop and then took off again. No noise. Rode about 3 miles heavy on the throttle. No noise. Then all of a sudden it started again. Same thing, if I go easy no noise, full throttle= noise. I felt the hub and this time it was warm, much cooler than yesterday.
This is my shift table for the race bike. It definately needed a different approach. The bike would accelerate fast than the actuator could keep up with, so I had to start at a higher gear. It also seamed like fewer shift points worked better.
Speed 1 2.1 3.1 4.1 5.2 6.2 7.2 8.3 9.3 10.3 11.3 12.4 13.4 14.4 15.5 16.5 17.5 18.6 19.6 20.6 21.7 22.7 23.7 24.8 25.8 26.8 27.9 28.9 29.9 31 32 33 34 35.1 36.1 37.1 38.2 39.2 40.2 41.3 42.3 43.3 44.4 45.4 46.4 47.5 48.5 49.5 50.6 51.6 52.6 53.7 54.7 55.7 56.7 57.8 58.8 59.8 60.9 61.9 62.9 64 65
Shift Pt 175 300 300 300 300 300 300 300 450 450 450 450 600 600 600 600 600 600 600 600 750 750 750 750 750 750 900 900 900 900 900 900 900 900 900 900 900 900 900 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977 977
Beware how much power you put through your Nuvinci
drewjet
10 kW
Burti, you really don't need a freewheel as it internally freewheels. I have a Cheapo with the flange from a scooter on my electrathon, max power of about 3000 watts, but only beacause that was the easiest way of hooking it up at the time. That freewheel never ratchets, it is always the internal one that freewheels.
I do agree that the hub gets warm and it is sucking some power. It will take some detailed expermenting to figure out exactly how much, and does allowing the motor to stay in a more effecint zone make up for that.
I do agree that the hub gets warm and it is sucking some power. It will take some detailed expermenting to figure out exactly how much, and does allowing the motor to stay in a more effecint zone make up for that.
dumbass
100 kW
drewjet said:
Actually it depends on what you consider a freewheel. The Nuvinci can only fuction in one direction. Therefore, the traction balls disengage when coasting. But Nuvinci recomends the use of an independent freewheel between it and all drive inputs (peddle or motor). I assume this could be intended as a safety should the hub become jamed locking the drive it and the input (peddles or motor).
Bob
drewjet said:
Good point drew!
I have dispensed with the freewheel on the hub, and fitted a 17t fixed wheel sprocket.
Will try it out tomorrow
dumbass said:
Sounds sensible. Fortunately this bike has a freewheeling crank, so cranks are not driven by the chains moving.
That freewheel was a bu@@3r to get off the splined adapter. Had to dismantle (smash) it, fit it backwards on the hub to hold it still, then use a chain wrench around the core to get it unscrewed.
I was going to buy a couple of spare freewheel adapters from Fallbrook, but they wanted something like $167 to ship them to the UK
Burtie
rkosiorek
100 kW
Burtie said:That freewheel was a bu@@3r to get off the splined adapter. Had to dismantle (smash) it, fit it backwards on the hub to hold it still, then use a chain wrench around the core to get it unscrewed.
I was going to buy a couple of spare freewheel adapters from Fallbrook, but they wanted something like $167 to ship them to the UK
Burtie
There is a special tool NuVinci sells to remove the freewheels. i makes life a lot easier if you want to play with these a lot. Fallbrook part#BK17-SVTL-P110-00A. i found one on the German eBay site.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Nuvinci-N-17...ritzels-/250919484170?clk_rvr_id=288006431873
this guy looks to be a pretty large store. try contacting him direct and see if he has any of the adapters.
if you want to remain within the UK, www.paper-bicycle.com in Scotland builds bikes using the NuVinci. you may be able to buy some from their parts department. Merida uses the NuVinci on their E-SPRESSO NUVINCI EQ. one of their UK dealers should also be able to get parts.
rick
rkosiorek
100 kW
here are some other links at Fallbrook
List o bike manufacturers that use the NuVinci Hub:
http://www.fallbrooktech.com/08_bicycle_whereto.asp
Parts Catalog for the N171:
http://www.fallbrooktech.com/docs/Parts_CatalogV5.pdf
Parts Catalog for the N360
http://www.fallbrooktech.com/docs/N360_Parts_EN_V021011.pdf
rick
List o bike manufacturers that use the NuVinci Hub:
http://www.fallbrooktech.com/08_bicycle_whereto.asp
Parts Catalog for the N171:
http://www.fallbrooktech.com/docs/Parts_CatalogV5.pdf
Parts Catalog for the N360
http://www.fallbrooktech.com/docs/N360_Parts_EN_V021011.pdf
rick
dumbass
100 kW
Actually, I had a light clicking that I thought was coming from my old 171 hub so I called Fallbrook service (USA) and they sent me all the removal tools free of charge plus a new gear range control setup including the handlebar chotrol cables and hub shifter. IT was conpletly setup to size and ready to install. They even paid Fed-X shipping to my house.
Removing the freewheel and backing space ring (where you install your secondary sprocket) is a peace of cake and take only a few minutes. If you install a secondary sprocket be sure to buy (install) the spacer washer or the sprocket will be to loose.
Bob
Removing the freewheel and backing space ring (where you install your secondary sprocket) is a peace of cake and take only a few minutes. If you install a secondary sprocket be sure to buy (install) the spacer washer or the sprocket will be to loose.
Bob
Thanks for the links rick, I will check them out.
Bob, that service sounds good, I wish they were as charitable to their european customers!
I am still having major problems with the bmx chain skipping at the rear.
detail moved to my build thread here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12768&start=135
Burtie
Bob, that service sounds good, I wish they were as charitable to their european customers!
I am still having major problems with the bmx chain skipping at the rear.
detail moved to my build thread here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12768&start=135
Burtie
dumbass
100 kW
Burtie said:
I've had a 171 Nuvinci for 3 years now. The first year wit ha 17t and the past 2 years with a 16t. However, my max speed is about 32mph and I am running standard 7 speed chain (I think that's 1/8" x 1/2' pitch) but the freewheel sprocket is only 3/32". I also use the old derailleur for chain tension and of course locked it in place. But I also use a single sprocket on my peddle crank. And this chain is only for my peddle crank and the motor is on a second sprocket on the Nuvinci. This sprocket has a fixed idler on it. I am also riding a hard tail.
Bob
rkosiorek
100 kW
chains on a suspended bike bounce around a lot. especially if you are changing gears at the same time as you hit a bump. you may need to add some kind of chain guide to keep the chain centered over the small sprocket.
rick
rick
In addition to my reply here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=496911#p496911
I thought I'd point out my solution to FS and chain tension is to use the swingarm pivot as the chainring center, so there is no growth/shrink of chainline during bump/droop.
In my case, the pivot is actually the NV, and the wheel will just have a chainring, but the reverse would work just as well.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=496911#p496911
I thought I'd point out my solution to FS and chain tension is to use the swingarm pivot as the chainring center, so there is no growth/shrink of chainline during bump/droop.
In my case, the pivot is actually the NV, and the wheel will just have a chainring, but the reverse would work just as well.
KMXTornado posted this interesting and useful thread on IGH usage here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34267
for those interested.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34267
for those interested.
Idontwanttopedal
1 kW
Warlands is a uk dealer
recumpence
1 GW
Maybe this was answered earlier, but, why are these being offered so cheap? Seems like they have an overstock, maybe?
Matt
Matt
ashwright
100 mW
recumpence said:
It is an old model, and looks a lot more bulky then the new n360 Harmony. It also seems like a good way of promoting their product. Give away 'samples' cheap, so people find out about it.
Just my thoughts.
My guess is that they aren't going to make the 171 anymore, just the 360 (or some other newer version), so why keep devkits around for the 171 if they won't be available?
Or maybe they have been total non-sellers, so they're dumping them cheap.
Or maybe they have been total non-sellers, so they're dumping them cheap.
E-racer
1 kW
As I understand it the 171 holds more power than the 360. I imagine the majority of NuVinci sales goes to human powered bicycles fitted with 360 hubs. The industrial approach to the electronic shift mechanism and the open tunablility of the electronic hardware leads me to believe they are trying to market the 171 hub to 50cc style manufactures. Most all the 50cc 2 and 4 stroke powered scooters could run a 171 hub under the max 5kw. I truly believe really well tuned shift maps could transform the RC powered bikes around 5kw. I hope to try out this theory on my build. I don't think they would market a transmission to hold 5kw as a cheaper version unless they truly are devoted to the developer community. In the long run this approach could help segway their company from niche bicycle transmissions to a full range of powered vehicles. I think the true question is how much power can this style of traction drive hold? and what is the long term durability of the friction surfaces?
StudEbiker
100 kW
Another thing that I was told on the phone is the guy that wrote the programming software wasn't with Fallbrook any longer. So it seems like something happened there and they are closing out the stock of these because they don't want to support the dev kits any longer.
waynebergman
100 kW
Thought I would chime in here on some of the lacing issues brought up earlier in this thread. I may have missed some of the comments directed towards inbound and outbound spoke patterns but something came to mind that I don't think has been mentioned as of yet. It may be a moot point but when every I have built a wheel I always remember to tuck the outbound spoke to the inside of the last cross. If its a 3 cross then at the third cross is where you tuck in this out bound spoke to the inside of the wheel before sending its threads into its nipple. What this does is keep the whole profile of all the linked together spokes at this crossing junction into a tighter profile. I think it kind of evens out the angles between the inbound elbows and the outbound elbows to there coresponding nipples when it is laced this way. Sometimes with beat up and bent rear derailers also it was nice to have the spokes as much inbound as possible so jockey pulleys etc would not rub on spokes if the derailer was bent too far inbound. I think the main reason for using the inbound spoke to tuck the outbounds back inside the width of the wheel was to have good contact between as many spokes as possible there by sharing the loads with the stretch and elastic properties of the spokes. I am not sure about the heavy gauged spokes why they dont touch on some builds. I have noticed this on my motorcycle as well. I think the spokes are so thick they are not so bendable and elastic as the double butted 3 cross bike wheels I used to build and they are just counting on the brute strength of the spoke. Just guessing on this one as I am not sure about how the crossing of spokes with heavy thick spokes work compared to the light weights I have built with in the past. Hope I am on the right track here, its been a long time since I have built a wheel but really enjoyed the process over the years.
Thanks for the input Nuvinci users. I hope to also have a geared bike for my second build it that is in the cards for me one day. I will be watching this thread for further updates...............wayne
Thanks for the input Nuvinci users. I hope to also have a geared bike for my second build it that is in the cards for me one day. I will be watching this thread for further updates...............wayne
