Ok, so I crashed again today...Is it time for a trike in the city?

The California code does not say "no throttle" from what I found in their code. Either the online resource I used is out of date, or this is more misinformation on this subtle distinction.

https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/vehicle-code/veh-sect-312-5.html
(3) A “class 3 electric bicycle,” or “speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour, and equipped with a speedometer.
Click to expand...

also
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/static.peopleforbikes.org/docs/PFB-0529%20E-Bike%20Law%20Handouts_CA_V3.pdf
 
AZeBikeGuy said:
Even with Tempe recently passing some of the strictest bicycle laws in the state (home of ASU which certainly influenced that!)
Click to expand...

In 2017 when Tempe passed those ordinances they were probably the most liberal e-bike laws in the state. At that time state law limited e-bikes to 20 mph and this was an absolute limit with no mention of allowing faster speeds going downhill or under human power only. It left a bit of confusion since it was difficult to know whether the AZ or Tempe law would take precedence. Also, I could find nothing about that says that ebikes/bicycles are OK to use sidewalks if the street speed limit is greater than 25 mph and there are no bike lanes. Bicycles and electric bicycles can use sidewalks unless there are signs posted saying otherwise. Street speed limit or availability of bicycle lanes are not factors.
 
AZ ARS 28-101, 25:


"Electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than seven hundred fifty watts and that meets the requirements of one of the following classes:

(a) "Class 1 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty miles per hour.

(b) "Class 2 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle or tricycle and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty miles per hour.

(c) "Class 3 electric bicycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with an electric motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle or tricycle reaches the speed of twenty-eight miles per hour.
 
Pretty boring stuff - I think Article V is the part @wturber is referring to and Article VII is the new one I was pointing out

Tempe Article V

Sec. 7-52. Riding on sidewalks or bicycle lanes.
(a) The city traffic engineer is authorized to erect or place signs on any sidewalk or
roadway, prohibiting the riding of bicycles, ELECTRIC BICYCLES OR LIGHT MOTORIZED
VEHICLES thereon by any person; and when such signs are in place no person shall disobey
same.
(b) Whenever any person is riding a bicycle, ELECTRIC BICYCLE OR LIGHT
MOTORIZED VEHICLE upon a sidewalk, such person shall yield the right-of-way to any
pedestrian OR ELECTRIC PERSONAL ASSISTANCE MOBILITY DEVICE and should give
audible signal before overtaking and passing such pedestrian OR ELECTRIC PERSONAL
ASSISTANCE MOBILITY DEVICE.
(c) No person shall ride or operate a bicycle, ELECTRIC BICYCLE OR LIGHT
MOTORIZED VEHICLE in any direction except that permitted by vehicular traffic on the same
side of the roadway where the sidewalk or bicycle lane exists; provided, that bicycles,
ELECTRIC BICYCLES OR LIGHT MOTORIZED VEHICLES may proceed either way where
signs or pavement markings on the sidewalk, bikeway or bicycle lane appear designating twoway
traffic.
(d) Any person riding a bicycle, ELECTRIC BICYCLE OR LIGHT MOTORIZED
VEHICLE on a bikeway, sidewalk or bicycle path that is about to enter or cross a roadway shall
yield the right-of-way to all traffic on such roadway.
(E) IN ACCORDANCE WITH STATE LAW (A.R.S. SECTION 28-908), A PERSON
OPERATING AN ELECTRIC PERSONAL ASSISTANCE MOBILITY DEVICE HAS ALL
OF THE RIGHTS AND DUTIES THAT ARE APPLICABLE TO PEDESTRIANS EXCEPT
PROVISIONS THAT, BY THEIR NATURE, CAN HAVE NO APPLICATION. ELECTRIC
PERSONAL ASSISTANCE MOBILITY DEVICES MAY BE OPERATED ON SIDEWALKS,
SHARED PATHS, MULTI-USE PATHS, AND IN BICYCLE LANES. NO PERSON SHALL
RIDE OR OPERATE AN ELECTRIC PERSONAL ASSISTANCE MOBILITY DEVICE IN
BICYCLE LANES IN ANY DIRECTION EXCEPT THAT PERMITTED BY VEHICULAR
TRAFFIC ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE ROADWAY.
(F) IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL TO USE AN ELECTRIC PERSONAL MOBILITY
ASSISTANCE DEVICE TO CARRY MORE PERSONS AT ONE TIME THAN THE
NUMBER FOR WHICH IT IS DESIGNED AND EQUIPPED.
(G) AN ELECTRIC PERSONAL MOBILITY ASSISTANCE DEVICE THAT IS USED
AT NIGHTTIME SHALL HAVE A LAMP ON THE FRONT THAT EMITS A WHITE LIGHT
VISIBLE FROM A DISTANCE OF AT LEAST FIVE HUNDRED (500) FEET TO THE
FRONT AND A RED REFLECTOR OR RED LAMP IN THE REAR OF A TYPE THAT IS
VISIBLE FROM ALL DISTANCES FROM FIFTY (50) FEET TO THREE HUNDRED (300)
FEET TO THE REAR.


And

ARTICLE VII. ELECTRIC BICYCLES
SEC. 7-71. REGULATING ELECTRIC BICYCLES: PURPOSE AND INTENT.
PURSUANT TO A.R.S. § 28-2516(B), THE STATE OF ARIZONA HAS GRANTED
MUNICIPALITIES EXPRESS AUTHORITY TO REGULATE OR PROHIBIT THE
OPERATION OF BICYCLES THAT ARE EQUIPPED WITH ELECTRIC MOTORS. IT IS
THE PURPOSE AND INTENT OF THIS ARTICLE TO PROVIDE FOR THE REGULATION
OF ELECTRIC BICYCLES AND TO PROTECT THE SAFETY OF PEDESTRIANS,
BICYCLISTS, MOTOR VEHICLE DRIVERS AND OPERATORS OF ELECTRIC
BICYCLES. IT IS IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST TO REGULATE THE USE OF ELECTRIC
BICYCLES BY PROHIBITING THEIR USE ON PUBLIC SIDEWALKS WHEN THE
ELECTRIC MOTOR IS ENGAGED.
SEC. 7-72. APPLICABILITY OF TRAFFIC LAWS.
IN THE CITY OF TEMPE, A PERSON RIDING AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE IS
GRANTED ALL OF THE RIGHTS AND IS SUBJECT TO ALL OF THE DUTIES
APPLICABLE TO A BICYCLE RIDER UNDER STATE AND LOCAL LAW. AN ELECTRIC
BICYCLE MUST ABIDE BY ALL SPEED RESTRICTIONS, INCLUDING SPEED
LIMITATIONS ON SHARED PATHS OR MULTI-USE PATHS.
SEC. 7-73. ELECTRIC BICYCLES MUST YIELD RIGHT OF WAY.
A PERSON RIDING AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE ON A CROSSWALK, MULTI-USE
PATH, TRAIL, OR SHARED PATH MUST YIELD THE RIGHT OF WAY TO ANY
PEDESTRIAN OR HORSE AND SHALL SLOW TO FIVE (5) MILES PER HOUR AND
COMMUNICATE WITH THE PEDESTRIAN OR RIDER BEFORE OVERTAKING OR
PASSING ANY HORSE.
SEC. 7-74. GENERAL RULES FOR ELECTRIC BICYCLES.
(A) AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE SHALL COMPLY WITH THE EQUIPMENT AND
MANUFACTURING REQUIREMENTS FOR BICYCLES ADOPTED BY THE UNITED
STATES CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY COMMISSION (16 C.F.R. PART 1512).
(B) IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL TO USE AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE TO CARRY
MORE PERSONS AT ONE TIME THAN THE NUMBER FOR WHICH IT IS DESIGNED OR
EQUIPPED.
(C) IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL TO RIDE AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE WHERE SIGNS
ARE POSTED PROHIBITING BICYCLING.
(D) IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL TO OPERATE AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE ON ANY
PUBLIC SIDEWALK OR TRAIL WHEN THE ELECTRIC MOTOR IS ENGAGED.
(E) WHEN TRAVELING IN A BICYCLE LANE OR STREET, AN ELECTRIC
BICYCLE MAY NOT BE OPERATED AT SPEEDS IN EXCESS OF TWENTY EIGHT (28)
MILES PER HOUR, OR THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT, WHICHEVER IS LOWER.
(F) AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE MAY BE USED IN ALL PLACES WHERE BICYCLES
ARE PERMITTED TO TRAVEL, INCLUDING SHARED PATHS AND MULTI-USE
PATHS.
(G) AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE MUST ABIDE BY ALL SPEED RESTRICTIONS ON
SHARED PATHS OR MULTI-USE PATHS. WHEN TRAVELING ON A SHARED PATH
OR MULTI-USE PATH, AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE MAY NOT BE OPERATED AT SPEEDS
IN EXCESS OF TWENTY (20) MILES PER HOUR.
(H) IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON UNDER SIXTEEN (16) YEARS OF
AGE TO OPERATE AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE. A PERSON UNDER THE AGE OF
SIXTEEN (16) MAY RIDE AS A PASSENGER ON AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE THAT IS
DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE PASSENGERS.
(I) ALL ELECTRIC BICYCLES MUST BE EQUIPPED WITH A SPEEDOMETER
THAT DISPLAYS THE SPEED THE ELECTRIC BICYCLE IS TRAVELING IN MILES PER
HOUR.
 
wturber said:
The California code does not say "no throttle" from what I found in their code. Either the online resource I used is out of date, or this is more misinformation on this subtle distinction.
Click to expand...

No, thank you, the same on California's own site, http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=312.5.&lawCode=VEH, or the original bill http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB1096. I took the liberty of removing that from the wikipedia article. Didn't bother to check on Tennessee's version.

I guess it's possible that if this were really serious business (which it is not), the courts might be willing to listen to a state's argument that "pedaling" means effective operation of a bicycle pedal drive, and what I described above wouldn't qualify because it requires only that you make the pedals revolve, and that isn't pedaling.
 
donn said:
I guess it's possible that if this were really serious business (which it is not), the courts might be willing to listen to a state's argument that "pedaling" means effective operation of a bicycle pedal drive, and what I described above wouldn't qualify because it requires only that you make the pedals revolve, and that isn't pedaling.
Click to expand...

Sure, but real pedaling and the use of a throttle are not mutually exclusive. For instance the main purpose for my leaving the throttle active even though I'm 95% reliant on the PAS system is that it gives me quick access to full battery power. And in those cases I'm usually pedaling very hard.
 
This thread about bike vs trike has also turned into a conversation about sidewalk usage. So let's discuss it.

I have been a witness to four incidences of a bicyclist being struck by a car and one event involving a powered mobility device (electric wheelchair). In every case the cyclist, pedestrian or other was traveling against the flow of traffic. The driver of the car was making a right turn to merge into the flow of traffic. The driver was looking left and the person struck was coming from the right.

I AM NOT SAYING THE DRIVER WASN’T AT FAULT.

I am saying the person traveling on the sidewalk in every case did not make eye contact with the driver before proceeding to step/ride in front of a running vehicle.

In the case of the mobility device, the other vehicle was a large pickup truck. The truck was turning right (USA, not UK) and the mobility device was well below the height of the hood of the truck. The driver of the truck glanced right then left and began looking for an opening in traffic to pull out of the restaurant parking lot. The cars behind the truck saw the powered wheelchair turn onto the sidewalk and proceed along from the right. The car directly behind the truck honked in an attempt to alert the driver of the presence of the pedestrian. The truck driver thought that the driver behind him was getting impatient just as an opening in traffic appeared. At this point the wheelchair is directly in front of the truck’s right wheel. The driver gunned the throttle and the wheelchair was knocked over. The truck driver can’t figure out why the front end is lifting up and he isn’t merging into traffic. The gap is closing, so he gives it more gas. The truck rode all the way up onto the wheelchair before he stopped to investigate what was under his truck. Fortunately, the frame of the electric wheelchair didn’t crush and prevented serious injury to the occupant who was thrown out onto the road.

A few years ago, a very good friend of mine was traveling against traffic when a car pulled up to an intersection. The car driver slowed for the stop sign but didn’t stop. My friend locked up both brakes on his expensive road-bike and skidded right into the side of the car. He rolled over the hood still clipped into the pedals. He didn’t break any bones but was very sore for a long time and his Cannondale had over $1,000.00 in damage.

Riding on the road or the sidewalk, I believe should be the choice of the rider. But the rider needs to know the risks involved in the choice they make.

Sidewalks Pro:
A Feeling of being separated from traffic
Ability to stop at leisure
Travel at a slower pace

Sidewalk Con:
Drivers not looking for cyclists
May not be well maintained, bumpy, cracked, end suddenly, untrimmed trees and other plants may cause eye and head injuries.
Doesn’t always have a soft curb or access ramp
Narrow space to maneuver, doing so may require leaving the sidewalk and exposure to additional hazards.
Shared with pedestrians, pets and others who behave unpredictably
Frequent stopping to cross at crosswalks
May be illegal

Riding in street or bike lane Pro:
Cyclists can travel faster
Less hazards to avoid
May be required by law (Chapel Hill, Columbus, NY, San Francisco, and many other places)

Riding in street Con:
Closer to cars, trucks, and busses
Uneducated drivers don’t know it is illegal to drive in the bike lane.
Distracted drivers, (cell phone usage is rampant)
Buses blocking lane to load/unload
Cars parking in lane.
Must obey traffic laws, (no running red lights)

I can’t think of any other pros and cons for the above.

Please post your thoughts.

Incidentally, I once had a man riding passenger in a car reach out and rub my bottom while riding on the road. Very-very creepy and very inappropriate. I always carry pepper spray now.

I also had a situation where I was riding on a bike trail and a teen jumped out of the bushes in front of me. It startled me so much I nearly crashed. I did swerve of a bike trail that was at least 30’ wide. I was a dedicated roadie then and traveling around 28-29 MPH and kind of in the zone, so I was totally freaked out.
 
Your stories mostly illustrate the dangers of a very specific type of circumstance as opposed to sidewalk use dangers in general.

BTW, I was hit by a truck in exactly the same way while crossing a street in Las Vegas. I was rushing to get to the table tennis playing venue on time (USATT Nationals) and stepped into the crosswalk from driver's right as soon as the light turned green. That, of course, was when the stopped truck saw his opening and accelerated to turn right while he was looking to the left for the oncoming traffic that concerned him. I was light on my feet (fortunately) and leaned into the truck when I perceived it moving. So the "hit" ended up as his truck pushing me about 2-3 feet as I rode his grill and bumper until he stopped (which he did fairly quickly). I think the driver was more shook up than I was. I was in a rush and focused on getting to my match. I only suffered some superficial scrapes and bruises. But things could have been much worse. And I knew better than to proceed like I did. I knew that drivers are usually looking left when turning right onto a street. But I was pre-occupied. I think that is one of the biggest dangers when cycling. Not staying alert and vigilant to possible dangers.

As for sidewalks I find the pro/con list less helpful than evaluating the specifics and possibilities of a situation/circumstance.
 
» Sep 10 2019 3:58pm
Your stories mostly illustrate the dangers of a very specific type of circumstance as opposed to sidewalk use dangers in general.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am highlighting a specific action that seems to compound the risk to anyone using the sidewalk. It is something that I see so often that I felt another reminder to anyone who may see this, could save a life or prevent injury.

I do choose to ride on sidewalks 30-40% of the time that I am on my bike. But the reality is there are some roads along my commute that are insane.

When on a sidewalk, I slow down. I always travel with the flow of traffic, even if it means crossing the road to do so. I allocate additional time to be cautious around traffic. I take a longer, but safer route. If it looks like I am cutting the time too close to ride to work, I take my car. I like not burning gas and helping the environment, but I need to be here for awhile longer for my family.

When riding for pleasure I try to stay in residential roads and on the road, not the sidewalk. I prefer designated bike trails when available.

Lately I added pruning snips to my bike kit because the local home owners don't seem concerned with maintaining the trees and bushes growing along the sidewalk. I have trimmed a branch here and there to make it nicer/safer for the next guy. I have not yet had anyone complain, but one home owner asked me what I was doing, she thanked me and said she didn't realize the bush was pushing people (kids) off the sidewalk into the road.
 
Finally found the brand spanking new Tempe regs that are very specific about sidewalk riding


Tempe passes new rules for bike and scooter riders
Post Date:08/15/2019 8:00 PM

TEMPE, Ariz. (Aug. 15, 2019) – There are new rules for operating bikes and scooters in Tempe. Here is what you need to know.

Bikes, e-bikes and scooters must use a bike lane when one is provided.
Bikes, e-bikes and scooters must ride in the street when the speed limit is 25 mph or below.
Bikes, e-bikes and scooters are allowed on the sidewalk when there are no bikes lanes available and the speed limit is greater than 25 mph.
E-bike motors must be disengaged.
Minors, with the consent of, or accompanied by a parent or guardian, may ride on the sidewalk at all times. Parents and guardians may also ride on the sidewalk when accompanying a minor.
Bikes, e-bikes and scooters must ride with the flow of traffic.
Bikes, e-bikes and scooters must yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian; slow down to 5 mph; and give an audible signal before passing.
Riders must be over the age of 16 to operate all non-human powered vehicles (scooters and other electric mobility devices).
Riders under the age of 18 are required to wear a helmet if operating a human-powered or non-human-powered vehicle.

Studies continue to show that riding on the sidewalk increases a bicyclist’s risk of being involved in a motor vehicle crash. That risk increases even more when riding on the sidewalk against the flow of traffic.

Tonight, the Tempe City Council voted unanimously to approve these safety measures, which included repealing Chapter 7 and expanding and amending Chapter 19. Changes will go in to effect in 30 days.



RLutz said:
Lately I added pruning snips to my bike kit because the local home owners don't seem concerned with maintaining the trees and bushes growing along the sidewalk. I have trimmed a branch here and there to make it nicer/safer for the next guy. I have not yet had anyone complain, but one home owner asked me what I was doing, she thanked me and said she didn't realize the bush was pushing people (kids) off the sidewalk into the road.
Click to expand...

I like this! I ride a pretty darn tall bike...
 
There is always a good side to a crash. Let’s say you did hurt yourself a few times crashing your bike but didn’t hurt anyone else, yet.

If this had happened on the street, the chances to hurt someone with your bike, would be almost nil.

For this reason, I’d say go for a trike. You’d be much less likely to ride the sidewalk on a trike.
Then, a clever build for a commuter trike is a tadpole fast enough to merge with trafic, with a high flag to be seen.
 
MadRhino said:
For this reason, I’d say go for a trike. You’d be much less likely to ride the sidewalk on a trike.
Then, a clever build for a commuter trike is a tadpole fast enough to merge with trafic, with a high flag to be seen.
Click to expand...

I find riding a trike to be a lot less stressful than riding a bike on the whole. You don't need to devote effort to maintaining balance, you don't need to worry about a stray patch of gravel causing you to slip to the ground at 25+ mph, you don't need to worry about stray debris throwing you off balance, and you're no longer in a prone position ready to hit the pavement face first.

A trike is actually more noticed than a normal upright bike, partially due to its relative rarity, partially due to its greater footprint in the road, partially because it looks to motorists like something that would damage their car if they hit it. In spite of a few scary incidents with enraged motorists, my trike has attracted a lot less road rage than any upright bike I've ridden.

I don't regret at all switching over to a trike. It's just a superior form of cycling for my application in virtually all respects.

Now the type of trike that's right for the rider will vary. In my case, I wanted something overbuilt, stable, comfortable, good weight distribution for car-like cornering, and strong enough that potholes and bricks/boulders in the road weren't going to hurt it. I ended up going for a KMX tadpole with added front suspension, and am very satisfied. The first Thunderbolt trike that I restored was fun, but it was not nearly as well built or as light in weight or as reliable.

If you're so old that you have trouble getting on or off a low-slung trike, need suspension for comfort reasons, need something sturdy enough to handle an electric drive, and need to haul groceries around, you might want to look into a full suspension steel-framed Hase Kettwiesel. If you need all weather protection, you could build a body around almost any trike, purchase an aftermarket fabric fairing built specifically for the Hase, or if you don't mind spending the cash, just go out and get a velomobile. Putting a front drive hub-motor onto a rear drive delta trike like the Hase using PAS would turn it into an all-wheel drive vehicle. A body shell would also drastically increase efficiency if you get the aerodynamics correct, which could potentially give you some electric-car-like range. Solar panels are also a possibility once you have a body shell.

That said, trikes are not cheap yet. Production volume is still low relative to normal bikes. It's going to cost you into the 4-figures unless you get a really lucky deal on a used one somewhere.
 
I'd love to try one of those trikes that handle almost like a go-kart, because I know a few choice roads in the mountains where they would be a blast. My problem is between here and those roads I'd be terrified. I believe the idea that they may be more visible to motorists, especially here where drivers have to be more alert for obstacles in the road than they do in the States, but I don't trust any of them. Unless I've made eye contact I ride assuming I am invisible except from behind where my brake lights come into play. On a low slung trike I wouldn't have enough field of vision to safely maneuver to my safe spaces. Plus there's the added scariness of having my head at grill level...no thanks!

4 decades on the road has taught me that drivers will make any mistake possible. That's why I would never ride at pedal bike speeds either, because that would require me to trust cars passing to see me and not hit me. no-no-no, I'll take 100% responsibility for my own safety with the full understanding that the faster speeds required to maintain my safe operating spaces comes with greater risk in the event of an accident.
 
John in CR said:
I believe the idea that they may be more visible to motorists, especially here where drivers have to be more alert for obstacles in the road than they do in the States, but I don't trust any of them.
Click to expand...

You shouldn't. Ever. They can be looking right at you and claim they didn't see you.

Unless I've made eye contact I ride assuming I am invisible except from behind where my brake lights come into play. On a low slung trike I wouldn't have enough field of vision to safely maneuver to my safe spaces. Plus there's the added scariness of having my head at grill level...no thanks!
Click to expand...

I have a Triumph GT6 electric sports car conversion. When sitting it in, my eye height is the same as it is on my trike, to within an inch. It's scary, but you'll get used to it when you use it enough. In both vehicles, if you get broadsided, you're probably a goner. In both vehicles, I could build a roll cage to mitigate that once funding permits.

4 decades on the road has taught me that drivers will make any mistake possible. That's why I would never ride at pedal bike speeds either, because that would require me to trust cars passing to see me and not hit me. no-no-no, I'll take 100% responsibility for my own safety with the full understanding that the faster speeds required to maintain my safe operating spaces comes with greater risk in the event of an accident.
Click to expand...

Making a recumbent trike go fast safely is probably not very hard compared to some of the builds on this site. Especially a velomobile. A well-designed velomobile, with perhaps a 0.12 m^2 CdA, could do 50 mph on flat ground on only 1 kW. Now imagine a front-drive full-suspension tadpole with hubmotors in the front wheels and a bicycle drivetrain on the rear, torque-sensing PAS, set up for like 20 kW peak. Even with someone as heavy as 300 lbs, if the vehicle weighed in at 100 lbs, and carried 20 lbs of extras on board, you'd still be looking at the potential for 0-60 mph in under 6 seconds and with a decent velomobile shell, whatever top speed you geared it for and felt safe going. And you'd get Nissan Leaf-like range at highway speeds on a 2 kWh pack, and a lot more range if you slowed down(potential for 200+ miles @ 30 mph).

With your build experience, I don't think you'd have any problem putting something like I described together, that was actually comparable in stability to a car at triple digit speeds.

I've already seen KMX tadpole trike builds that could reliably and safely cruise at 40 mph and for rare occasions safely do 65 mph or so when road conditions permit and if the vehicle was inspected beforehand and everything checked out. But with a bit of redesigning, way more is possible judging by the various light weight internal-combustion-engined racing karts that have been built.
 
To me, a trike is very limited, unsuitable for sport riding. But, a tadpole may be a good choice for many good reasons: efficiency, comfort, stability... some riders don’t feel safe on 2 wheels.

I feel much safer on a powerful bike because I am in control of balance, and I have all the options available in emergency situations. I have been a dirt rider all my life and survived hundreds of crashes without any disability. If I ever start using a trike, it would be because I can’t ride a bike anymore.

I had an incident yesterday on the street. An upcoming car deliberately did a left turn in front of me, thinking he’d have time to clear. But pedestrians had started to cross and he had to stop across my lane. I decided he deserved a bump, so I locked both wheels in a screaming brake and managed to drift right in his passenger door. My handlebar broke the partially open window, and my pedal left a pretty deep dent in his door. I could have avoided him, but even at 72 yrs of age, I still like bumping a door when the cager is at fault. :twisted:
 
MadRhino said:
I had an incident yesterday on the street. An upcoming car deliberately did a left turn in front of me, thinking he’d have time to clear. But pedestrians had started to cross and he had to stop across my lane. I decided he deserved a bump, so I locked both wheels in a screaming brake and managed to drift right in his passenger door. My handlebar broke the partially open window, and my pedal left a pretty deep dent in his door. I could have avoided him, but even at 72 yrs of age, I still like bumping a door when the cager is at fault. :twisted:
Click to expand...

Nice move. Maybe someday I'll have the kind of control to pull that off safely. The only time I ever bumped a car was when an idiot decided to u-turn as I was passing. We barely touched and I had no injury and my bike seemed fine. I found out later that my best set of forks, Titatium 888's somehow got cracked and leak oil from the slight lateral impact.
 
I'm just coming up on 60, am "disabled" (missing a leg) but still can't imagine being content on anything that doesn't lean to turn - i.e. two wheels vs. three

I've also rode motos since a kid and also pilot and have piloted many different types of aircraft (and watercraft for that matter). Four wheels is pretty boring with the possible exception of my 4x4 but if I still had both legs I'd still ditch it for a moto for the most part.

When the time comes I can't do two wheels I'll likely try something else... but I'm not terribly optimistic about it how well it will "stick"...

I don't do try to mix with cars while on the bike... haven't since I was a kid... have nearly a million street miles on motos and not interested in something as low performance as a bike - even a "fast" ebike... just sounds like death to me...

I'm fortunate. My backyard is literally up against hundreds of miles of a multi-use trail system that given enough stamina can take me all over the PHX metro area. I'm very close to the "open" desert where I prefer to ride and the mountains too when I have the time to haul the bike out there.

If I want to go to friends' houses or hit the occasional restaurant or pub, I'll take some of the quiet residential, cut through the power line trails, HOA paths, or whatever and limit myself to no more than about half a mile on the death roads here (the major arterial streets) and bike lane or no, stick to the sidewalks, head on a swivel...

I am invisible and prefer it that way... I had likely as many "near-death experiences" with the moto on the same streets from people raging and deliberately trying to cause me harm as the people that just aren't paying attention - when they are staring right at you, swerving towards you, yelling and screaming, middle fingers flying, chasing you across parking lots and down streets, you know it's not inattention :roll:

People get set off by the most ridiculous stuff - at least out here. Half the time it's when they aren't paying attention (the change over the last decade or two from cell phone adoption is stark), do something stupid and only notice you at the last second and decide it's your fault...
 
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