Pressure Test My Framed Minnesota 3.0 BBSHD Build

[1badfattie]

Hi Everyone,

First post, but have been reading in here and other places for months learning all I can about ebikes. I think I now have my build pretty much figured out, but wanted to get expert thoughts from you guys before I start ordering the pieces.

First, what I'm looking for: a do it all ebike.
1. Something I can ride around town for 30-40 miles in hilly pacific northwest. I'm good with about a 28-30mph top speed, but want lots of help on the hills here.
2. A mountain bike for easy to moderate trails. I'm older and just want to have some fun hitting trails at moderate speeds
3. A snow and sand bike for snowmobile trails
4. Something that is reliable and safe and cool
5. A budget of about $3k

I test rode a bunch of fat tire ebikes at a bike expo and absolutely love the experience of the giant tires. Just wanted more power. I ride motorcycles and dirt bikes, so pretty sure I can handle it.

I'll be building myself, so hoping you guys will weigh in on anything you think might present a newb build w/ problems.

Planned build:
1. Minnesota 3.0 XWT w/ RST fork. Can get for about $1,200. 16" frame - I'm a little worried the frame might not fit the shark tank I want. This bike comes with 4.7" wide tires...which are crazy wide and I think pretty awesome for snow/sand.
From Lunacycle:
2. BBSHD w/ 100 or 120mm bb. Not sure which is better. the bike has 100mm bb but I've heard the 120mm bbshd is more flexible to keep chainline proper. Any help here super appreciated! Color display and gear sensor cut off: $759
3. 52V 13.5+ AMPHRS + PF Shark Pack $565 Is this going to be enough power? Will it fit? Are there better options in a pack? I don't want a triangle bag just cuz I don't really like the look. Defs don't want a backpack or rear mount.
4. 52v lunacharger $99
5. Thudbuster suspension seat $130

So think that's about it. Should come out to about $3k with shipping. What do you think? Anything else I'll need? Any better options for what I'm looking for? I'm tempted by the cyclone, but think that might be past my abilities as a newb.

One other note...I'm heading to Hong Kong in October for a trip and could hold off to see some of the bikes they sell on Ali Baba in person, but my sense is the frames won't be very good quality for actual off roading.

 

[WoodlandHills]

Did you compare Bikes Direct? The Boris with a Bluto is $999 and seems to have a better or just as good component set?

 

[1badfattie]

Did you compare Bikes Direct? The Boris with a Bluto is $999 and seems to have a better or just as good component set?

Thanks, yes, I've looked at bikes direct bikes quite a bit. The Boris at $999 has 4" tires vs the 4.7" of the Minnesota, Avid 5 brakes (I think, can't really tell from the spec sheet) vs the Avid 7's on the Minnesota. I'm guessing the Bluto is a better shock, but not sure?

So, I could probably just buy bigger tires, but not really sure they'd fit. I like the super fat tires coming stock though. And, at almost the same price and specs, I like the idea of buying an American made bike.

 

[ScooterMan101]

You want 28 - 30 Mph ? ,

And

You want fat tires too ?

Others here will tell what kind of High Wattage and High Amperage you will need , in order to do those kinds speeds on Fat Tires, even 2.5 inch tires.

I do not want to be the one to tell you the bad / sobering news.

I would like to see some real world, testing of how fast you can go with such fat / low pressure tires before they separate from the rim. Video's please .
It would have to be some long runs in order for the test to be valid .


You could make life real easy, if you can get by/be happy with 2.5 inch tires , by just buying the Giant Stance , with Befang Mid-Drive , already put together,
by
Luna Cycles LLC.

http://lunacycle.com/luna-giant-bbshd-full-suspension-mid-drive-mountain-ebike/

 

[1badfattie]

You want 28 - 30 Mph ? ,

And

You want fat tires too ?

Others here will tell what kind of High Wattage and High Amperage you will need , in order to do those kinds speeds on Fat Tires, even 2.5 inch tires.

I do not want to be the one to tell you the bad / sobering news.

I would like to see some real world, testing of how fast you can go with such fat / low pressure tires before they separate from the rim. Video's please .
It would have to be some long runs in order for the test to be valid .


You could make life real easy, if you can get by/be happy with 2.5 inch tires , by just buying the Giant Stance , with Befang Mid-Drive , already put together,
by
Luna Cycles LLC.

http://lunacycle.com/luna-giant-bbshd-full-suspension-mid-drive-mountain-ebike/

I really want the fat tires. So, I'm a little surprised to hear this. Do they have that much rolling resistance? I rode one of those factory fat bikes with a 500w mid-drive motor that was pretty quick, so figured I'd be fine w/ 3X the motor. Feel free to break any bad news you have - would rather read it than experience it!

 

[dustNbone]

The BBSHD might be able to push that thing to 30MPH, but not for long. You'd be lucky to get 10 miles like that on 13.5Ah let alone the 30-40 you're looking for. I run a BBS02 on a pretty efficient touring bike with 38mm rear and 32mm front tires, running 70 and 95psi respectively and I get around 40 miles range on 20Ah, at an average around 22mph. If I tried to do it at 30mph on even this bike I would expect at best half that range.

 

[tln]

3. 52V 13.5+ AMPHRS + PF Shark Pack $565 Is this going to be enough power? Will it fit? Are there better options in a pack? I don't want a triangle bag just cuz I don't really like the look. Defs don't want a backpack or rear mount.
.

Sounds like an awesome bike waiting to happen! That battery will handle the BBSHD 30A max draw no problem.

As for pack size, im not sure whether the shark pack or the dolphin pack is larger, that seems to be the main concern. I guess you could find the geometry specs of your bike and figure out if it will fit. If neither fits I don't know what your next option might be. Sonders style hard case?

 

[WoodlandHills]

I have 4.7" tires on my FS fatbike and I have had zero issues with the tire coming off of the rim at those speeds. On the way home from my favorite trail tide I have a few miles of pavement to get to my neighborhood which I ride at WOT due to traffic. Even after an 18mi trail ride it will still reach 20mph as per GPS. And this is with 7.5psi in the tires, higher pressure and a full charge should allow you to see 28mph although the battery won't last long at WOT. I can get close with a fresh battery, even with my off-road gearing, 25ish IIRC.

I have Bluto and RST Renegade forks and the Bluto is far better, night and day...... It has much much less stiction, better damping and is built stiffer. If the cost to upgrade to the Bluto was anywhere close, I personally would do it: the Bluto is that much better.

If you want accurate information about fat bicycles, you need to read the fatbike forum at mtbr.com. There are long, long threads comparing these bikes, tires and forks. Just don't mention that you want to build an ebike! I am sure that you have already read everything over at electric-fatbike.com about converting BD fat bikes....? Karl has been there and done that so we don't have to!

 

[Drunkskunk]

Sounds like an awesome project. Fatbikes really are the jeeps of the bike world.

That battery will be small for your range. You might make it if you rode slow and pedaled to assist. To do 40 miles with that battery, you would need to average 17.55 watt hours per mile, and that would totally drain it, which isn't good. that might work at 14mph. Doubling your speed increases the power needed by 4 times. at 30mph, that battery would have a hard time doing 10 miles.

Fat tires will handle high speeds. The opening of the video below is me on 4.7" tires on the highway at 50mph. My bike will do well over 55mph. However, there can be problems. I've blistered a set of Surlys at 40mph after running for several miles. Also, speed and fat tires aren't friendly to your wallet. I average a dollar per mile in tire cost with that bike, and I only rarely take the bike over 35mph.



[youtube]ZzAsLGhC7TE[/youtube]

 

[1badfattie]

I have 4.7" tires on my FS fatbike and I have had zero issues with the tire coming off of the rim at those speeds. On the way home from my favorite trail tide I have a few miles of pavement to get to my neighborhood which I ride at WOT due to traffic. Even after an 18mi trail ride it will still reach 20mph as per GPS. And this is with 7.5psi in the tires, higher pressure and a full charge should allow you to see 28mph although the battery won't last long at WOT. I can get close with a fresh battery, even with my off-road gearing, 25ish IIRC.

I have Bluto and RST Renegade forks and the Bluto is far better, night and day...... It has much much less stiction, better damping and is built stiffer. If the cost to upgrade to the Bluto was anywhere close, I personally would do it: the Bluto is that much better.

If you want accurate information about fat bicycles, you need to read the fatbike forum at mtbr.com. There are long, long threads comparing these bikes, tires and forks. Just don't mention that you want to build an ebike! I am sure that you have already read everything over at electric-fatbike.com about converting BD fat bikes....? Karl has been there and done that so we don't have to!

Thanks - was hoping someone would weigh in on the forks. The Bluto's are $200 more, but sounds like they are totally worth it. Also good to hear about your range! That's impressive. What battery are you running? As for going 28-30 - I didn't mean all the time, just that I could top out at that when needed.

 

[999zip999]

The right fat tire for your use and pocket book. They can be big bucks and may where out fast. Plus a spare tube on hand. If just snow and sand. But snow sand and mainly street ? Lots of options.
Drunkskunk I wood take off those tree hooks off the end of your handle bars. My God.

 

[1badfattie]

Ok, thanks to the input in here, I'm now considering different bike, as I want the Bluto forks and it seems the 2017 Motobecane Lurch/Bluto may be a better choice. The Minnesota with Bluto is $1,400 shipped and the Lurch with Bluto is $1300. The Lurch also has the newer SRAM GX drivetrain vs the X7 stuff on the Minnesota. And it has 4.8" Maxxis tires, which seem pretty solid. So, $100 less and better components. Both have the same Avid BB7 brakes, that look pretty decent. But open to hearing if these won't be strong enough and I should look for hydraulic.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/fat-bikes-lurch-bluto-x9.htm#specs

vs

http://www.the-house.com/qfrmin3x16bkbwebzz-framed-fat-bikes.html

 

[MadRhino]

2. BBSHD w/ 100 or 120mm bb. Not sure which is better.

Well, 4.7 tires are about 119mm wide. With a 100mm BB you can't achieve a chainline that is perfectly straight. While this might not be mandatory when you pedal the bike, a motor makes this much more important for reliability.

Snow and sand are not surfaces that one does usually ride fast. For that reason I believe that your choice of bike and kit is all right. If it was for speeding I'd say build a stiffer frame and use 4.0 tires with an Monster T fork.

 

[WoodlandHills]

Ok, thanks to the input in here, I'm now considering different bike, as I want the Bluto forks and it seems the 2017 Motobecane Lurch/Bluto may be a better choice. The Minnesota with Bluto is $1,400 shipped and the Lurch with Bluto is $1300. The Lurch also has the newer SRAM GX drivetrain vs the X7 stuff on the Minnesota. And it has 4.8" Maxxis tires, which seem pretty solid. So, $100 less and better components. Both have the same Avid BB7 brakes, that look pretty decent. But open to hearing if these won't be strong enough and I should look for hydraulic.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/fat-bikes-lurch-bluto-x9.htm#specs

vs

http://www.the-house.com/qfrmin3x16bkbwebzz-framed-fat-bikes.html

I have BB7s on one bike and Guide hydraulics on another. The BB7s are fine once you replace the cheap cables and sheaths with Jagwires although they will never be as strong or have as good feel as hydraulic brakes. On the other hand the current SRAM Guide brakes are going through a quality problem with oversize sticky pistons locking up the brakes in temps over 100*. Mine had the problem and I had to take the levers apart and sand the piston then bleed the brakes. They are OK now, but it is a messy job and can be a PITA w/o the correct tools. A $35 brake bleeder kit is mandatory.

 

[1badfattie]

I'm still going back and forth on the Framed vs the Lurch. The Lurch won't be shipping til mid-late Sept. So, do I wait for the newer GX drivetrain on the Lurch, or buy a Framed bike now? The other factor is the wheels. The Framed have Framed wheels with Quando hubs, the Lurch have mulefut wheels with novatec hubs - the mulefuts seem to have decent reviews, but neither hub appears to be a great hub.

 

[MadRhino]

... neither hub appears to be a great hub.

Great hubs, or any high end components, are aftermarket products for bikes in that price range. Top quality components are on bikes 4 times that price and up. No manufacturer will ever equip a bike that is selling 1500$, with 300$ hubs.

When you start building, you have to make decisions on what you will start with and what you want to upgrade.

 

[1badfattie]

Well, thanks for everyone's input. I decided to go with the Motobecane Lurch. Ordered that and a BBSHD kit and 52v 14ah shark tank from Lunacycle. Bike won't come in for another month though, as it's the 2017 model and they aren't shipping yet.

Very excited for it. I don't see how they can sell the Lurch bike with the components ($700 mulefut wheels and Maxxis Minnion tires, $500 bluto fork, $130 Avid BB7s) that they spec for $1300 and free shipping, but who am I to argue! The weak link I think will be the hubs, and I'm prepared to have to upgrade those.

All in I should be right around $3,000 and have a pretty decent all around bike. Will report back in late Sept/Oct when I get the bike and start building.

Thannks again!