liveforphysics
100 TW
The buyer got a great deal at $6,500. Well worth every penny.
Your acceleration specs sound fantastic!
Your acceleration specs sound fantastic!
Project #3. Two motors, Three wheels, Six grand!
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
recumpence
1 GW
I figured $6,500 was a good price. I made $2,500 proffit on it for 18 hours of labor (including testing and adjustments). However, that is after all the R&D related to the drive system production. So, the previous time invested in that area is paying for itself.
Luke, you are on the west coast correct? Man, it is 5:30AM here central time. What are you doing up at 3:30?
Matt
Luke, you are on the west coast correct? Man, it is 5:30AM here central time. What are you doing up at 3:30?
Matt
liveforphysics
100 TW
I have too much work to be wasting time sleeping Matt. 
I normally get to sleep when my body decides to blur my vision and the room starts tipping around. And no, I never drink or do any drugs. That's just good old fashioned continuous sleep deprivation. Worked a 20hr shift yesterday. Right now I'm soldering up a 2 stage pressure controller setup for my racecars nitrous bottle heaters. The trick is to not fall asleep on the floor with the soldering iron in a bad place... Then the alarm goes off, I get off the floor, and go back to work.
$2,500 in exchange for your design time and labor is very reasonable for custom 1-off work. I bet your buyer will love that trike
I normally get to sleep when my body decides to blur my vision and the room starts tipping around. And no, I never drink or do any drugs. That's just good old fashioned continuous sleep deprivation. Worked a 20hr shift yesterday. Right now I'm soldering up a 2 stage pressure controller setup for my racecars nitrous bottle heaters. The trick is to not fall asleep on the floor with the soldering iron in a bad place... Then the alarm goes off, I get off the floor, and go back to work. $2,500 in exchange for your design time and labor is very reasonable for custom 1-off work. I bet your buyer will love that trike
paultrafalgar
10 kW
Matt, considering the litigious nature of your compatriots, have you thought of stenciling "Off-road Only" on your splendid creations? If the deceased's relatives sue your ass for "killing" their beloved by making an illegally fast machine, I, for one would be sorry. Or maybe you could get the purchaser to sign an agreement to the effect that the vehicle is only for off-road use. Just a thought.
Kind Regards,
Paul
Kind Regards,
Paul
recumpence
1 GW
I have considered it. This particular trike sold to a friend of mine who is a pilot, motorcyclist and otherwise risk-taker. I am not at all worried about him. Other customers is another story.
It would not be difficult to letter each trike or bike I build with the phraze "Not legal for use on roadways. Check local laws." Or something to that affect.
Matt
It would not be difficult to letter each trike or bike I build with the phraze "Not legal for use on roadways. Check local laws." Or something to that affect.
Matt
johnrobholmes
10 MW
Did you guys see the electric chopper that OCC built? Ugly, and it certainly was not their style.
You could do much better than that Matt. The electrics should be shown off, just like on a real chopper.
You could do much better than that Matt. The electrics should be shown off, just like on a real chopper.
recumpence
1 GW
I spent 2 and 1/2 hours with the trike buyer today doing some work for him on another bike. We talked about the trike and my use of it this weekend before I release it to him. He told me "Beat the crap out of it! I want you to see how much abuse that tire will take!"
Basically, he wants to make sure I torture test the trike to assure him it is reliable with no adverse handling issues related to all the power. So, after that, another friend of mine came by for lunch and I rode it for him. I rode it harder than I ever had before. I did some full counter-lock drifting at full throttle. I did ALOT of full throttle tire smoking! At the end of that session, there were some very long, very black marks up our street. The longest is all the way around a corner and 80 feet up the street! I never saw it leave marks before. What is cool is I can see my corning lines this way.
Anyway, the trike passed the test. If the tire is still holding on before Sunday (when I install a brand new tire for the buyer), I will just brake-torque a monster burnout untill the tire shreds.
Maybe I can get a video of that. :wink:
Oh, one thing I found out, it is a bad thing to do a fast, high countersteer drift and let off the throttle mid corner. The rear tire just hooked hard and it wanted to tip. So, that is the handling bugaboo with this setup. But, not a big deal. I kind of expected that.
Oh, the motors were are 115 degrees after about a mile of hard drifting.
I am definately building another one!
Matt
Basically, he wants to make sure I torture test the trike to assure him it is reliable with no adverse handling issues related to all the power. So, after that, another friend of mine came by for lunch and I rode it for him. I rode it harder than I ever had before. I did some full counter-lock drifting at full throttle. I did ALOT of full throttle tire smoking! At the end of that session, there were some very long, very black marks up our street. The longest is all the way around a corner and 80 feet up the street! I never saw it leave marks before. What is cool is I can see my corning lines this way.
Anyway, the trike passed the test. If the tire is still holding on before Sunday (when I install a brand new tire for the buyer), I will just brake-torque a monster burnout untill the tire shreds.
Maybe I can get a video of that. :wink:
Oh, one thing I found out, it is a bad thing to do a fast, high countersteer drift and let off the throttle mid corner. The rear tire just hooked hard and it wanted to tip. So, that is the handling bugaboo with this setup. But, not a big deal. I kind of expected that.
Oh, the motors were are 115 degrees after about a mile of hard drifting.
I am definately building another one!
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
I am so psyched about this thing. It is hard to part with. But, not nearly as hard as the PK Ripper. This thing is mostly production parts I have in stock. Heck, I even have 12 more Lipo packs in stock to make the identical pack for another trike.
I figure I could build another in 12 hours of labor. But, I want to go more "Bling" with the next trike. So, I will probably put around 40 hours in the next one.
I want it pretty. :wink:
Matt
I figure I could build another in 12 hours of labor. But, I want to go more "Bling" with the next trike. So, I will probably put around 40 hours in the next one.
I want it pretty. :wink:
Matt
Grinhill
10 kW
recumpence said:
Matt, PLEASE don't do that unless the camera is running!!!
coln72
10 W
Second that
johnrobholmes
10 MW
Third!
On your next build get some Shinko 244's. Great dual sport tire.
On your next build get some Shinko 244's. Great dual sport tire.
recumpence
1 GW
Well, I brake torqued the trike untill the tire blew. There were balls of rubber stuck to my shirt. Talk about SMOKE! We did get it on video. But, it was my uncle that videoed me with his camera. He is now out of state. He is burning me a CD of it. I will upload it when I get it. There are some BLACK streaks up my road from all the burnouts.
Oh, I have an order for another identical trike. The buyer is dropping off a $2k deposit this week.
Also, the owner of the first trike has a few buddies out of state that are really into weird vehicles (electric in particular). He is sure he can get them to buy a few. We shall see. They are all wealthy boaters and pilots. So, the money is not the issue. And, since they own their own planes, they can come pick up the trikes. No shipping needed.
I will keep you posted as I build more.
I also have some refinements figured out.
I hope these trike sales will generate further refinements that can be trickled down to other E-bike venues.
Matt
Talk about SMOKE! We did get it on video. But, it was my uncle that videoed me with his camera. He is now out of state. He is burning me a CD of it. I will upload it when I get it. There are some BLACK streaks up my road from all the burnouts. Oh, I have an order for another identical trike. The buyer is dropping off a $2k deposit this week.
Also, the owner of the first trike has a few buddies out of state that are really into weird vehicles (electric in particular). He is sure he can get them to buy a few. We shall see. They are all wealthy boaters and pilots. So, the money is not the issue. And, since they own their own planes, they can come pick up the trikes. No shipping needed.
I will keep you posted as I build more.
I also have some refinements figured out.
I hope these trike sales will generate further refinements that can be trickled down to other E-bike venues.
Matt
johnrobholmes
10 MW
I bet there will be trickle down in some form. I wish I could find your client base
recumpence
1 GW
I had the same thing with my RC helis. I tend to stumble onto these things.
Anyway, I will be ordering more ESCs soon too.
Matt
Anyway, I will be ordering more ESCs soon too.
Matt
northernmike
10 kW
Wow, wow, wow.
Awesome!
Awesome!
Capo_au
10 mW
recumpence said:
Just out of interest, what kind of warranty do you tend to offer on the products you manufacture?
Not just necessarily on your fantastic trike, congrant's on its upcoming success by the way, but on your e-drive systems etc.
Also as a small business how do you handle your public liability insurance?
If for instance one of your trikes got stuck with an open throttle (god forbid
) or the batteries caused a house fire?I'm asking not so much as a possible customer but more a curious bystander.
Cheers
-Capo
recumpence
1 GW
As for liability insurance, it is nearly impossible to insure yourself for something like this. I did a bunch of research on this when I was manufacturing RC helis because an RC heli is basically a flying lawnmower with no protective deck. My insurance agent and my attourney both told me it is nearly impossible to insure yourself when making products like this unless you are a large company. The best option would be to have any buyers sign a waver. That is not fool-proof. But, it is better than nothing. Also, keeping within a selected chientele helps rather than just advertising that anyone can buy one, no matter how little they know about these bikes.
As for warrantee issues, I have never had any problems. I am human. If I make an error setting up a drive, I will take care of it.
Matt
As for warrantee issues, I have never had any problems. I am human. If I make an error setting up a drive, I will take care of it.
Matt
johnrobholmes
10 MW
I tried getting insurance for my company. They wouldn't do it because I lace wheels 
Maybe I need a different company?
Maybe I need a different company?
Capo_au
10 mW
Arh ok, very interesting so thanks for the info. I suppose you can’t blame the insurance companies for not wanting to touch your little endeavour with a 10 foot pole.. That amount of lithium alone would be enough to make it a high risk venture before you even consider that 10kW digit remover you call a chain e-drive.
I suppose you could always go down the path taken by those "stylish" chopper push bikes with a warning reading "WARNING: For display purposes’ only, do not ride!"
Anyway, enough thread hijacking. Cant wait to see that video
I suppose you could always go down the path taken by those "stylish" chopper push bikes with a warning reading "WARNING: For display purposes’ only, do not ride!"
Anyway, enough thread hijacking. Cant wait to see that video
recumpence
1 GW
I do not want to get off topic on this discussion. But, I have some info regarding liability for you guys.
I spoke with my attourney today at length about this question. He made a few statements, then elaborated on them;
He said;
#1 The little guy always wins. I am a little guy who lives in a townhouse doing appliance repair as my full time gig. I am not worth suing.
#2 These are not full fledged production bikes. He recommended that I build every one a bit different than the previous bike/trike. That way what I am selling are my prototypes in an effort to fund further development.
#3 When someone rides a motorized vehicle, he is taking an "Assumed risk". Basically, if you do something that is obviously dangerous, it is MUCH harder to sue.
#4 I should not advertise bike on my web site, but should, instead, run a blog and let people contact me to build them a "One-off" bike.
#5 I should not put my name on the bikes, no matter how badly I want to. That keeps it from looking like a production item, not a one-off prototype that it really is.
Lastly, he said that if I ever go into full production, what is even better than a waver is a simple warning label stating something to the affect of "This vehicle is not legal for road use. It shall not be operated by any person under 21 years old. Operation of the vehicle is for recreational use only, not for commuting. Operation of this vehicle constitutes an assumed risk by the operator. Any property damage or personal injury incurred through the use of this product is the sole responsibility of the operator........"
Anyway, he said litigation is always a possibility in our world. But, my liability in this is very low.
Matt
I spoke with my attourney today at length about this question. He made a few statements, then elaborated on them;
He said;
#1 The little guy always wins. I am a little guy who lives in a townhouse doing appliance repair as my full time gig. I am not worth suing.
#2 These are not full fledged production bikes. He recommended that I build every one a bit different than the previous bike/trike. That way what I am selling are my prototypes in an effort to fund further development.
#3 When someone rides a motorized vehicle, he is taking an "Assumed risk". Basically, if you do something that is obviously dangerous, it is MUCH harder to sue.
#4 I should not advertise bike on my web site, but should, instead, run a blog and let people contact me to build them a "One-off" bike.
#5 I should not put my name on the bikes, no matter how badly I want to. That keeps it from looking like a production item, not a one-off prototype that it really is.
Lastly, he said that if I ever go into full production, what is even better than a waver is a simple warning label stating something to the affect of "This vehicle is not legal for road use. It shall not be operated by any person under 21 years old. Operation of the vehicle is for recreational use only, not for commuting. Operation of this vehicle constitutes an assumed risk by the operator. Any property damage or personal injury incurred through the use of this product is the sole responsibility of the operator........"
Anyway, he said litigation is always a possibility in our world. But, my liability in this is very low.
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
Just sold another one. These three sales are all to one group of buddies in a flying club.
Man, this could be good!
I already have ideas for improvements...........
Matt
Man, this could be good!
I already have ideas for improvements...........
Matt
Capo_au
10 mW
Thanks for the follow up, its always interesting to hear the opinion of someone who deals with litigation for a living.
You mentioned in one of your previous posts that you plan to enclose nearly everything on the bike. Is this still the case for your new designs?
Congrats on your third sale too. A few more orders and you will need to start thinking about a part time assistant
You mentioned in one of your previous posts that you plan to enclose nearly everything on the bike. Is this still the case for your new designs?
Congrats on your third sale too. A few more orders and you will need to start thinking about a part time assistant
liveforphysics
100 TW
I was picking up some clutch parts for my GSXR-1000 at the local Suzuki dealer, and they were finishing up the paper work for a 16yo kid that bought a 2009 GSXR-1000. He said it would be the first motorcycle he has ever ridden... That's 191bhp and 370lbs to a 16yo kid with no previous motorcycle experience. I told the kid his cheapest way to learn to ride would be to buy a $500 POS Ninja 250 or Katana off Craigslist and learn to ride on that while the GSXR1000 is safe in the garage. He wanted nothing to do with that idea...
They can sell machines that do 0-60mph in 2.6 seconds, and 9 second quarter miles to kids going into 10th grade, and be legally safe from liability. I think Matt is doing something that seems very safe and responsible in comparison. Picking the right customers/buyers is always the key to having a headache free business.
They can sell machines that do 0-60mph in 2.6 seconds, and 9 second quarter miles to kids going into 10th grade, and be legally safe from liability. I think Matt is doing something that seems very safe and responsible in comparison. Picking the right customers/buyers is always the key to having a headache free business.
