regenerative braking bolt on wheel for cars, trucks, BUS

[hydro-one]

I thinking that a bolt on motor, wheel, battery, system for a bus --- wireless control, self contained, bolt on , replaces non-drive wheels.

How it works is , bus accelerates, motor adds full power until battery reaches LVC, drives the bus (alongwith the ICE). as long as accelerator is pressed.
driver hits brakes (or detent in brakes before actual braking occurs) , then motor regens back into a wheel mounted pack (insert chemistry here).
This occurs many many many times, and that is how you would justify carrying the extra weight in your wheel.

This would allow an easy add on retrofit to many vehicles on the road, with a proven savings (mabye 10-20% fuel?), mainly for stop and go systems.

Another idea is to mount the pack somewhere else, but this complifys the installation/design.

Now I see that cycle /life of the cell would be important, as well as QUICK CHARGE / DISCHARGE. Mabye a supercap if storage density could catch up. But I want it NOW, so what can be done?

I realise ICE is a dinosaur, but with so many dinosaurs on the road---may as well help them -and get rich in the process eh?

mike

 

[vanilla ice]

For sure buses are first place regen needs to go.. Stop and go is what they do. I've heard "plug" eddy current brakes are used on many city buses. Don't have any numbers but what a waste ey. I guess its better than spewing brake dust on everybody.

 

[hydro-one]

Found a link here regen on a bus

http://www.springerlink.com/content/404t56558656n380/

claims more than 10% reduction with compressed air regen , very interesting

found something on series electric hybrid bus with ultracaps in a search on here.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7393&p=112182&hilit=+regen+bus+different+kind#p112182

the paper

http://www.bgsu.edu/downloads/tech/file55534.pdf

Claim it must be charged in seven seconds, with a peak charge power of 150kw........im getting lazy on the math in my old age, I think batterys could do it NOW , SIMPLY, without vast arrays of supercaps,, or super anything!!!

 

[hydro-one]

Us manitobans and californians need to get together on some EV projects. Let me paint you a picture,,,,,we have clean power , 5 gigwatts of HYDRO. We have no clean air laws here. nothing. you can do anything you want here. all the fleet vehicles from the "cleaner " provinces, that fail smog inspection , get sent here to "die". And they die a slow death on the road, in a cloud of hydrocarbons. Its discusting. The trucks , gawd , makes me sick man, I worked in road construction for many years befor I cracked.....anyhow....send us some politicians, clean air laws , and sana cruz bikes :lol: ......ill send you some hydro!!!

mike

 

[vanilla ice]

Buses are so heavy, a battery may not be able to as good a job at absorbing all that power as caps would, but hey half of something is better than all of nothing right. I'm with you on using what is available now.

 

[torker]

I saw my first Hybrid school bus in Wichita yesterday. It was a short bus, not a fullsize. I think this is an awesome place to start. The 15 passenger I drive gets 4.8 mpg. ugh.

 

[vanilla ice]

IIRC a full size unhybrid sprinter gets like 30mpg highway and seats 10.

......ill send you some hydro!!!

Send us some underwater versions of those kite gens please.. Deploy flaps, waves uncoil the anchored line generating power, retract flaps and roll it back in. A few dead fish is a small price to pay.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Saw a system a few years ago (on the web) where a hydraulic pump/motor peformed the function of regen and initial accel. Fluid filled an upright cylinder and compressed a nitrogen bladder. There were garbage-truck and city-bus prototypes, but I haven't seen them catching on, so the cost/benefit ROI must not have been appealing.

There was a significant reduction of diesel exhaust when trying to acel the heavy vehicle from a stop...Perhaps an electric version might shake out better?

 

[hydro-one]

saying theres no roi on this is like saying that ev's cant pay for themselves!!! which isnt true with todays batteries im sure. 150kw for 7 seconds thats 100 pounds of celman pouches, you would get more than 7 seconds, but thats only 30c. could you get 90c lipo in there? you only need a few kwh.....

Im starting to think getting catalystic converters on the busses might be better option for now. I worked underground with a deisel with a 1200$ converter 3 way catalyst, and you could breath the exhaust literally, is was like bbQ..........no particulates....no HC. .. thats the bulk of the Shiet......

i think there gonna burn it, may as well be clean burning.....anybody have inside info on this? catalysts?

 

[dnmun]

westport and cummins build a natural gas diesel engine the chinese are using in their bus fleets.

volvo already sells the hybrid dump truck with the hydraulic accumulator, and the energy to get the vehicle moving again is all transmitted through the hydraulic pump and the engine cuts in after the dump truck has started moving under hydraulic power. most efficient way of dealing with conserving the momentum of that much mass. hydraulics are part of the entire dump truck too for mashing and stuff. i think they are for inner city in europe and are under about 15k lbs. quiet.

i think UPS is testing a similar hydraulic assist for their delivery trucks, small pilot of about 6 trucks.

 

[torker]

Yea I wish I would have seen what kind of hybrid bus it was. Not sure if it was a Thomas or what. I'd be curious to see what kind of system they are using.

 

[hydro-one]

All sound good! I know there alot of busses on the road, older busses , that will be there until the gas runs out. since its the public that is running it, they will continue to run until the public runs out of money, so , along time say twenty or more years,, no matter what gas prices go to. That is why I prefer something that can be retrofitted, ei bolt on . I know with building new busses, it should be , hybrid electric drivetrain, or pure ev. But weve got diesel busses. hundreds of thousands of dirty dinos, spewing thier cancer cloud on us "leavers" . So what can be done. One way I saw to reduce the demands on the regen brake system would be to have more than one motorwheel , eg two, four? That way each wheel would be responsible for say 30kw. I went and collected some real test data, as I had to ride a bus to work , where I assemble bicycles. Most of the acceleration/braking was a few seconds in duration. Were into cycles in the thousands. Could we use 50%DOD to extent the pack into years of service? Im not too worried about it as the packs can be easily recycled, in a closed loop.

Now some other things that need to be considered are driving algorithyms, to help maximise the benifits of electroboost wheel. This could be modeled by computer. The wheel itself would be self contained. It would work on accelerometer sensors, and user input from throttle sensor, brake sensor. This would wirelessly send a signal to the controller (in wheel), what to do, coast (eliminate cogging) what level of assist (ei think pedelec), or regen braking to use.

The motor would be low KV,brushless, large diameter, max assist speed could be as low as you want, but say 50km/hr. Im thinking like 9c, but bigger.

Controller= in wheel AC, 4110 mosfets, zigbee module to recieve control data , separate radio module for disconnect (saftey feature red button on dash)

Cells= 100 nanophos 20ah pouches in a (sandpaper flap)radial splay, around the axis of rotation. encased in lead (from recycled lead acid cells)or? for protection and cooling. I will get some pictures of this after i dream some more....

Now replace the front wheels of the bus with these, not sure how they would bolt on yet -- bang you got 60kw of boost, and 60kw of regen. By bolting the wheel to the bus, and bolting a small black box, with simple switches to the gas and brake. You can get rid of the worst part of the driving cycle. And save alot of fuel. And it should last along time. and be safe. And serviceable.

Can it be done or am I missing something. Heat? There will be alot of flow in there, but should be fairly efficent? calling all engineers!!

 

[Lyen]

Done! See this below:
http://www.matternetwork.com/2009/2/energy-efficient-transit.cfm

 

[Lock]

Nice! NYC and Toronto bought identical designs as diseasal buses with lead slung onto the roof. The dummies in Toronto put their hybrids on suburban routes away from most of the stop-and-go traffic so NYC is seeing twice as good gas mileage (sigh)

Developers of that *properly* designed EV bus here:
http://www.proterraonline.com/index.asp

tks
Lock