pendragon8000
100 kW
Lookin good. didnt know this thread was up till now.
Sn0wchyld's 12kw custom frame mid drive
- Thread starter sn0wchyld
- Start date
sn0wchyld
100 kW
slow going on this... got a job now so not as much time! still, its getting there:
if i use the 30q 18650's then it should fit 48ah at 20s
with room enough left for the controller and motor inside the frame. probably going to be johns motor for the first one, since the revolt 160s is a bit sad from first reports.
cheers to both pen and my dad for finally getting me to try for a lower cog.
if i use the 30q 18650's then it should fit 48ah at 20s
with room enough left for the controller and motor inside the frame. probably going to be johns motor for the first one, since the revolt 160s is a bit sad from first reports. cheers to both pen and my dad for finally getting me to try for a lower cog.
Rube
100 W
Hi Snow, really great design, I'm agree with the swingarm pivot and overall design approach.
Are your CAD file propriety or something you are willing to share? I have contacts able to run basic FEA to give feedback on design and construction requirements.
Cheers
Are your CAD file propriety or something you are willing to share? I have contacts able to run basic FEA to give feedback on design and construction requirements.
Cheers
sn0wchyld
100 kW
Rube said:
got FEA in the software i use currently... i'll post some analyses up soon. Going to go buy materials and a new lathe to start building next month...
pendragon8000
100 kW
update?
sn0wchyld
100 kW
pendragon8000 said:
ill have to post some pics soon, but the design is about 95% done... just sorting out the seat and modifying the rear swingarm to accept bolt-on dropouts like my norko - all in the name of modularity. frame is probably going to be around 8-9kg, a bit of a beefcake but also bulletproof. Bought the ally for it last week, should start cutting next week (got a week of work!) and hope to be done in 2 (atleast with a rolling chassis), riding in 4-6.
also did some calcs - if i use this frame with a hub motor i should be able to comfortably fit in a 6.5kwh battery
. thats around 300km range at commuting power levels... 22kg battery though means it'd be a hefty bastard 
Rube
100 W
Any news?
sn0wchyld
100 kW
builds encountered another setback - the guys that were going to cut the major panels for me have now undergone major renovations and wont be able to for quite some time yet, so im now stuck with either another redesign in order to be able to use my current CNC machine, or buying a new one (CNC). Not sure at the moment, though i think i can make some relatively minor tweaks and fit it on the current gear I have. Also looked at getting it machined locally and just paying the $$, but cant even get a reply much less a quote for a signle run job. Given the prices charged for one offs at my work (we outsource quite a bit) i cant imagine i'd get much change from $1k, which makes a new machine pretty competitive.
sn0wchyld
100 kW
redesign is going fairly well, looks like i wont need a new machiene, though i may end up getting one anyway
In order to fit a wider range of motors i've moved the shock and changed the shock profile, its now nice and progressive, particularly towards the end of the stroke, last 30mm of wheel travel it drops below 2:1 ratio, with an average before that of 3.4:1. Also frees up space to use an average 220mm hub as a mid drive too, though in my case its more likely to be a motenergy. Johns hub will have to wait untill i either re=wind it or find a decent 28-32s controller. Interestingly doing the numbers puts johns mini monster about on par, or slightly better than the motenergy, for slightly less weight. Such a shame they went out of production...
Leaverage ratio, for those that are interested. fully compressed shock is actually a bitmore than 156mm, but used that in order to keep the steps even for the plot. Actual final ratio is 1.4:1, so should be near impossible to bottom out even with a heavy bike and rider.
In order to fit a wider range of motors i've moved the shock and changed the shock profile, its now nice and progressive, particularly towards the end of the stroke, last 30mm of wheel travel it drops below 2:1 ratio, with an average before that of 3.4:1. Also frees up space to use an average 220mm hub as a mid drive too, though in my case its more likely to be a motenergy. Johns hub will have to wait untill i either re=wind it or find a decent 28-32s controller. Interestingly doing the numbers puts johns mini monster about on par, or slightly better than the motenergy, for slightly less weight. Such a shame they went out of production...
Leaverage ratio, for those that are interested. fully compressed shock is actually a bitmore than 156mm, but used that in order to keep the steps even for the plot. Actual final ratio is 1.4:1, so should be near impossible to bottom out even with a heavy bike and rider.
sn0wchyld
100 kW
FINALLY have a good update from this build... its done!! well... the design is at least.
When i had to do the re-design to fit on my current machiene i went ahead and moved the shock too, and put a bit more effort in to the leaverage ratio (see last post) as well as leaving room for a larger motor, so i can now fit a Mxus/QS motor, a motenergy, or anything smaller than that (basically anything smaller than 230m dia and 110mm width will fit concentric with the swingarm pivot). if any larger than that, the belly of the frame is largely open so it should be easy enough to mount it there if I ever want to go for something even bigger
. alternatively should allow for a few different battery sizes, depending on if i want range or something lightweight. Whole frame is modular so ill only need to re-cut parts of the frame if anything doesn't work out...
Currently picutred with a motenergy (200mm dia)
When i had to do the re-design to fit on my current machiene i went ahead and moved the shock too, and put a bit more effort in to the leaverage ratio (see last post) as well as leaving room for a larger motor, so i can now fit a Mxus/QS motor, a motenergy, or anything smaller than that (basically anything smaller than 230m dia and 110mm width will fit concentric with the swingarm pivot). if any larger than that, the belly of the frame is largely open so it should be easy enough to mount it there if I ever want to go for something even bigger
. alternatively should allow for a few different battery sizes, depending on if i want range or something lightweight. Whole frame is modular so ill only need to re-cut parts of the frame if anything doesn't work out... Currently picutred with a motenergy (200mm dia)
Stielz
100 W
Looks awesome mate. You've got a lot of machining work to do there!
sn0wchyld
100 kW
Stielz said:
haha yea, cost of having a modular frame. its not too bad though, some of the parts are pre-formed extrusions that only require basic machining. Still going to buy the bigger machiene though so hopefully I can cut 90% of the parts with only 2 setups.
jansevr
1 kW
Will these frames be available for sale in the future? Do you have a projected price? Eagerly watching this one great stuff man.
sn0wchyld
100 kW
Just for a sense of capacity, this is the bike with a 20s 20AH battery pack made of the hobbyking 5ah 4s hardcase packs. Using 18650's, about 220 would fit in the same area, for 20s 11p, 33Ah if you use 3ah cells. Max-e is also inside the frame, and should still have plenty of room for wires etc.
also made a small mod to the shock arms, bit lighter but much stronger and easier to make.
also made a small mod to the shock arms, bit lighter but much stronger and easier to make.
damcard
100 W
I like that. I always sketch something similar when I try to come up with a frame for my mid-monster. The motor will torque on the rear swing arm and pivot in the frame right? If it was just a bit wider the mid monster would fit it. -David
sn0wchyld
100 kW
damcard said:
yea, motors torque is all transferred to the swing-arm, so only squat should be as a result of weight shift.
How wide is the mid monster?!? Probably not hard to change a few parts and make this wider
. I think the 15kw peak motenergy will be more than sufficient for my needs though. Till its built and i realise i still want more heheh.John in CR
100 TW
sn0wchyld said:
With motor torque anchored to the swingarm and your pivot point so high you'll actually have quite a bit of anti-squat force during acceleration that is likely to more than offset weight shift. It's not a bad thing, but will feel quite different than anything you've experienced. Regen will provide anti-dive force as well (though not as pronounced), which is definitely a good thing with the big travel fork I suspect you'll have.
Thorough feedback wrt the "feel" of these forces is nearly impossible to find, and I haven't seen anyone run a pivot point that high, so once you're riding please share all you can in that regard.
Also note that my friend messed up the rewind effort on that extra MiniMonster stator I have, so no new news there. I did, however, just cut a deal with the factory on a stash of 11 Mini's they had been keeping in reserve as spares. I've had recent discussions with their motor designer who holds the patents on all 3 motors, and he stressed the importance of the high quality Si steel used in those high efficiency hubbies, so don't let go of that motor you've been sitting on because it really is special. I'm still hoping someone will come up with an economical 150-200V controller, so I don't have to mess with a rewind to really unleash the potential of the motors I have.
damcard
100 W
Sorry it took so long to get these pics. I hate resizing them. I was planning a slightly more feet forward layout to try to get around its width. I don't have a couple hv controllers for it though so it sits.
Rube
100 W
Hi any news on your project?
sn0wchyld
100 kW
damcard said:
wouldn't be too hard to make it fit... would need to widen the frame by about 4mm, diamiter looks like its no issue.
Rube said:
started cutting the frame, but unfortunatly not without mishap. Got this far through before my work holding failed. Might be worth now taking the time to do a proper fixture plate or two. I didn't have a banana so heres a lemon.
Rube
100 W
Hi, shame to have an early failure are you still aiming to make a frame soon?
Byte
1 kW
Any updates on this awesome build?
sn0wchyld
100 kW
Its still progressing, slowly. been flat out with other life commitments, made an upgrade to the machiene to try and get better work holding too. hope to make some serious progress over the next month or so.
Rube
100 W
sn0wchyld said:
Good to hear, we'll be waiting
Just joking good luck with balancing the life commitments, it's hard being an adult ebike designer Similar threads
