Starting From Dead Stop Bafang G311 Geared Hub Motor

solant

100 µW
Joined
Jan 12, 2023
Messages
9
Need Advice,
I'm a relative newbie to the E-Bike world and have recently installed a Grin "Ready to Roll" front hub system. The set-up is as follows: Rans Stratus XP long wheelbase recumbent, Bafang G311 front geared hub, Z9 Baserunner controller, ERider PAS, thumb throttle, CA3, and 36V, 17.4A downtube battery. All up weight, 255 lbs,+/-.
The problem occurs when I'm forced into a panic stop due to traffic or pedestrians without the opportunity to downshift into first gear. With the reclined seating position and elevated crank, a firm pedal stroke, in first gear, is required to accelerate to 3-5 mph to prevent falling over. When stopped in a high gear, I must get off the bike, put down the kickstand, lean the bike over, and slowly downshift into first gear while turning the crank 180 degrees for each cog. A REAL pain in the butt!
The possible solution is to use the thumb throttle only to "SLOWLY" accelerate from a stop to a riding speed where I can downshift into a lower cog. Can this be safely done without fear of stripping the nylon gears? I'm very easy on the system, using it mainly to flatten hills on my ride so the motor/gears stay very cool. Probably no more than a few degrees above ambient. Note: I can "Fred Flintstone" the bike to 1-1.5 mph prior to applying the throttle to ease the strain on the system.
Any thoughts about doing this, maybe once per ride?
Thanks, Tom
 
Have one on a delta trike had it turned up to 700w for about a year. Lowered it to 600w so a nice strong little geared hub but they have there limits. If you don't stall it or giving it to much power it should be ok.
 
Thanks for the quick replies. Your responses ease my worries! I won't do it often, and I'll be easy as I can when necessary. The best part: No more (internal) "road rage" when someone forces me to panic stop. Haha...
 
solant said:
Need Advice,
I'm a relative newbie to the E-Bike world and have recently installed a Grin "Ready to Roll" front hub system. The set-up is as follows: Rans Stratus XP long wheelbase recumbent, Bafang G311 front geared hub, Z9 Baserunner controller, ERider PAS, thumb throttle, CA3, and 36V, 17.4A downtube battery. All up weight, 255 lbs,+/-.
The problem occurs when I'm forced into a panic stop due to traffic or pedestrians without the opportunity to downshift into first gear. With the reclined seating position and elevated crank, a firm pedal stroke, in first gear, is required to accelerate to 3-5 mph to prevent falling over. When stopped in a high gear, I must get off the bike, put down the kickstand, lean the bike over, and slowly downshift into first gear while turning the crank 180 degrees for each cog. A REAL pain in the butt!

What version of firmware are you using on the CA? I'm going to be installing an ERider PAS, and saw that the newer firmware can provide assistance from a dead stop, which is what I want for my setup.
 
As long as the motor / controller / battery has the power to provide the torque to get you started essentially by itself, then it shouldn't damage anything to do this.


If the Erider PAS you have is a torque sensor, you can actually setup the CA with the latest firmware to use it in torque-only mode, so that simple pedal pressure will send a throttle signal to the controller and start you up.

This thread, somewhere around this point or a bit after,
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37964&start=4725
has info from Justin_LE on the 3.2x firmwares and this new mode.

This mode has one risk: enough pressure on the pedals to cause the sensor to read torque on them will always cause the motor to engage (except when you are holding the ebrake lever assuming one is wired to the CA ebrake input or the controller ebrake input).

Since it's a 'bent, you're unlikely to ever be "standing" on the pedals, which is the most common cause of such a problem, so as long as you either always engage the ebrake when specifically wanting the motor to not run, or be careful to only apply torque to the cranks when you want the motor to run, it's a safe enough mode to use.


It is the mode I have wanted for my heavy-cargo trike SB Cruiser for years, though I have yet to actually update the FW of the CA and test it.... :oops: (so many experiments, to do, so little time :lol: :bolt: :flame: )


solant said:
I'm a relative newbie to the E-Bike world and have recently installed a Grin "Ready to Roll" front hub system. The set-up is as follows: Rans Stratus XP long wheelbase recumbent, Bafang G311 front geared hub, Z9 Baserunner controller, ERider PAS, thumb throttle, CA3, and 36V, 17.4A downtube battery. All up weight, 255 lbs,+/-.
The problem occurs when I'm forced into a panic stop due to traffic or pedestrians without the opportunity to downshift into first gear. With the reclined seating position and elevated crank, a firm pedal stroke, in first gear, is required to accelerate to 3-5 mph to prevent falling over. When stopped in a high gear, I must get off the bike, put down the kickstand, lean the bike over, and slowly downshift into first gear while turning the crank 180 degrees for each cog. A REAL pain in the butt!
The possible solution is to use the thumb throttle only to "SLOWLY" accelerate from a stop to a riding speed where I can downshift into a lower cog. Can this be safely done without fear of stripping the nylon gears? I'm very easy on the system, using it mainly to flatten hills on my ride so the motor/gears stay very cool. Probably no more than a few degrees above ambient. Note: I can "Fred Flintstone" the bike to 1-1.5 mph prior to applying the throttle to ease the strain on the system.
Any thoughts about doing this, maybe once per ride?
 
My CA3 was purchased last summer, mid July. On power up, the CA says version 3.15.
 
Hmmm? Torque-only mode is interesting. BUT, it has to launch me quickly to the 3-5 mph threshold to keep my balance. A failure of any kind will leave me on my arse! Using the throttle, I can keep both feet down until a safe speed is reached then begin pedaling. (7-8 mph)
 
solant said:
Hmmm? Torque-only mode is interesting. BUT, it has to launch me quickly to the 3-5 mph threshold to keep my balance. A failure of any kind will leave me on my arse! Using the throttle, I can keep both feet down until a safe speed is reached then begin pedaling. (7-8 mph)

I was thinking in the rare occasion that you forget to downshift, you can press the up button on the assist level and just start off; with the extra assistance, it would seem you could find the setting that provide enough assist to make up for starting in the higher gear. Might be work experimenting with. I use throttle from a stop now, but got the ERider so I don't have to.
 
I’ll give it a try on my next ride. It’s mid-winter here in North Idaho so it may be a while. As soon as I can find some dry pavement and temps above freezing I’ll give it a go…
 
Test Complete! No Joy! I started from 9th gear on a very slight downslope (for safety) with the PAS ERider at the maximum assist level. First try, rear brake locked, very firm pressure on the right pedal, left foot on ground. No power activated on the G311 front hub until I released the brake and had rotated the pedal 90-100 degrees. At the 90-100 point power was applied to the hub at what seemed to be the same thrust amount as the first assist level, no greater. Tried again without holding the rear brake, same results. Very scary and wobbly starts! I then tried several thumb throttle only starts which were very smooth and successful. I think I'll go with the thumb throttle...

Note: I read in this thread there is a firmware update which allows a torque sensor only setting. I tried downloading the latest firmware and my MacBook rejected it as Malware. If this is true, that only pressure is needed for a start, it may be a winner. For now, I'm happy using my thumb!
 
solant said:
Note: I read in this thread there is a firmware update which allows a torque sensor only setting. I tried downloading the latest firmware and my MacBook rejected it as Malware. If this is true, that only pressure is needed for a start, it may be a winner. For now, I'm happy using my thumb!
As long as it gets you the result you want. ;)

The FW should be downloadable within the CA Setup program itself, at least it is on the Windows version. Does the MB still reject it then? If so, perhaps you can manually change the MB settings to ignore the FW folder of the CA Setup program?

The torque-only option would let you hold the brake and max out torque pressure, to get max assist as soon as you let go, effectively the same as using the max thumb throttle.

As noted, though, this mode can trigger accidental surges of power if you put pressure on the pedals enough to trigger the torque sensor even if you aren't riding or intending to, unlike the version that requires some crank rotation. Should not be an issue in a full 'bent, but something to remember when using it.


Before they came up with this FW version, I was (very slowly) working out in the Nano Tidbits thread a few different things to overcome this and other CA limitations in my usage (and some other stuff I also want the trike to do outside the CA's abilities). With the external device I was working on, one could use a button to switch between the CA doing the startup with cadence required, or using the external device with torque-only.

Unfortunatley I don't think you can change modes in the CA without actually going into the setup and doing it, so it can't be done as a single button press to switch between cadence-required and not required modes. However, a switch could be used to disconnect the torque sensor from the CA as a "safety" under any circumstances one did not want the pedals to engage motor power (but the rest of the system still has to work, so the ebrake signal can't be used for this).
 
Thanks for the advice and recommendations. For now, I've found the perfect and painless solution to the dead stop starting solution. I'll admit, I'm pretty much a "dunce" when it come to the programming a system like the CA3. I'll leave the custom set-ups to the true E-Bike hobbyists.
One piece of advice I'd like are your ideas on temperature effects on the nylon gears. There is a post in this thread showing that the gears are near full strength up to 50C. At that point, it drops off to roughly 50% strength at 70C. I've found that I have the latest G311 with the thermistor installed along with the speed sensor. I activated it and have the "roll back" start at 80C, with shut down at 100C. Great feature! Now the dilemma? If the CA is showing 70C at the stator, what is the approx. temperature at the gears. One poster said he believes it's about 20C drop from the stator side to the planetary gear side. If true, that would mean a temp reading of 70C on the CA would mean about 50C at the gears. Good to go! At 90C on the CA, 70C at the gears (danger zone) 50% strength. Any thoughts on my line of thinking?
Note: I've just ordered a "spare" set of gears from AliExpress to keep in my parts box. If I should strip the gears, my down time will only be a day instead of nearly a month waiting for a delivery from China. ($38.00 U.S. plus $5.72 shipping)
 
solant said:
One piece of advice I'd like are your ideas on temperature effects on the nylon gears. There is a post in this thread showing that the gears are near full strength up to 50C. At that point, it drops off to roughly 50% strength at 70C. I've found that I have the latest G311 with the thermistor installed along with the speed sensor. I activated it and have the "roll back" start at 80C, with shut down at 100C. Great feature! Now the dilemma? If the CA is showing 70C at the stator, what is the approx. temperature at the gears. One poster said he believes it's about 20C drop from the stator side to the planetary gear side. If true, that would mean a temp reading of 70C on the CA would mean about 50C at the gears. Good to go! At 90C on the CA, 70C at the gears (danger zone) 50% strength. Any thoughts on my line of thinking?

Everything inside the motor casing (the outside part with the spoke flanges) will, after some amount of time under a certain loading, become the same temperature. How long that is you would need a second (or more) temperature sensor inside (at least to measure the air temperature, if not that of the gears themselves) to determine.

The stator sensors are typically installed at the windings, so the readings will vary widely and quickly, vs that of the stator core, rotor magnets, etc., which will change more slowly as they absorb the heat generated in the windings and conducted and radiated out of them into the other parts. That heat will then be conducted and radiated out of those parts into the rest of the motor, including the gears. I'm not able to do the math, but it does exist for calculating the heatflow from one thing to another, knowing what the materials are and the distances between them and the starting temperatures of each and the time, if you want to calculate some approximation.

Justin_LE may also have info about heat inside geared hubmotors over here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48753
or in the blog posts on ebikes.ca, that you could use.

Otherwise, I'd just make an assumption that in 10-20 minutes (of relatively continuous usage at the same level), the temperature of the gears and the clutch will approximate that of the average temperature of the windings over that time. (which you'd have to determine by tracking the changes in temperature readings and averaging them, or just guesstimating that the readout temperature from a few minutes ago is what they are now.


FWIW, more than a decade ago I used a little 350W Fusin geared hubmotor on DayGlo Avenger (a cargo bike with trailer) with a more powerful controlelr than it was designed for, and overheated it more than once to the point the halls stopped working. It didn't actually kill the halls, but eventually it was hot enough to make water turn to steam on the outside casing, which is around 100C. So the gears inside would have been at least that hot, and they did not melt or fail, but at that point I was babying the motor along to get home. I don't know what plastic they were made from, or their temperature range, vs what's in your motor, so I don't know how yours would fare under similar circumstances. I did eventually melt the solder on the hall board at the windings, but it kept working. (but it got hot enough to do that, which is VERY hot). I also eventualy broke the clutch in it, though the gears still worked.
 
Thanks, great advice. My normal daily ride is 15miles. The first half (average) is slightly downhill while the return (average) is slightly uphill. Ride time is about an hour and ten minutes. Plenty of time to heat soak the entire hub especially when the highest motor loads will be when returning home uphill. I'll be more conservative and treat the displayed temps as being close to the actual temps of the gears. Thanks again!!!
 
amberwolf said:
Unfortunatley I don't think you can change modes in the CA without actually going into the setup and doing it, so it can't be done as a single button press to switch between cadence-required and not required modes. However, a switch could be used to disconnect the torque sensor from the CA as a "safety" under any circumstances one did not want the pedals to engage motor power (but the rest of the system still has to work, so the ebrake signal can't be used for this).

Is it something that can be setup in the custom presets, or is it one of the settings that applies to all presets? I realize it's two button presses, or at least holding one down and toggling with the other.
 
AFAIK it's global.
THe only two PAS config settings in Torque mode that can be different between presets are Assist Start Level in watts, and Assist Scale Factor in watts per human watt.

I can't remember which specific settings are changed to create the start-with-torque-only mode but I can't see how those would do it.

These are the settings descriptions from the 3.2b3 helpfile:

3.7 PAS Device


These settings tell the Cycle Analyst the physical characteristics of the installed pedal assist device. The CA needs to know the number of pulses per crank revolution and the forward/reverse pedal sense. If there is a torque sensor, it must also know how the torque signal is scaled into meaningful units of Newton-meters. These are one-time settings made at installation time; tuning the way the PAS device operates is achieved by the PAS Configuration Settings in the next section.
[ PASD->Sensr Type ]
Chooser to select the type of PAS sensor installed.
Disabled: There is no PAS device installed. This deactivates all PAS functionality and makes SLim->MxNoPdlSpd inoperative.
Basic PAS: The sensor is a simple cadence sensor, which provides pulses when the cranks are pedaled. Both 1 wire (only pulses with fwd pedaling) and 2 wire (quadrature signals or pulses with separate fwd/dir signal) are supported.
Wheel Trq: The sensor is located in the rear wheel measuring torque on the freehub or freewheel. In this mode there is typically no cadence sensor signal, and the human power is computed by multiplying torque with wheel RPM rather than crank RPM. The rider must maintains more than the ThrshTrq level for power assist to be active.
BB TRQ: The sensor is a custom BB torque device type requiring user configuration of these other settings in this category. In this mode, the human power is calculated from the torque times the pedal cadence:
PASD->PASPoles
PASD->SignlType
PASD->DirPlrty
PASD->TrqScale
PASD->ZeroTorq
Only this torque sensor type allows adjustment of these settings via Setup Utility.
Thun BB:
TDCM BB:
NCTE BB:
Sempu BB:
CyclStokr:
ERider:
ERider_T9:
These are sensors for known device types. These selections cause preconfigured defaults to be copied into place for other settings in this category. The sensor type remains as selected if those other defaults remain unmodified, however, changing a default setting will change this sensor type to 'Custm TRQ'. Downloading one of these preconfigured sensor types from the Setup Utility will similarly set other settings to the associated preconfigured defaults exactly as if the preconfigured type had just been selected by CA Console Setup, overriding the other settings that may have been present in the Setup Utility.
Note: The Sempu BB is manufactured with two different interface styles. The version selectable here has the '2-wire' interface distributed by Grin. Units from other vendors may require subsequently customizing PASD->SignlType to '1-wire' in CA Console Setup.
Similarly, the ERider sensors comes in several varieties as well. The second ERider_T9 option applies to the 2021 model which increased the number of poles from 18 to 36.
[ PASD->PAS Poles ]
Number of pulses generated in one full rotation of the pedal sensor. This is equal to the number of magnets on simple magnetic ring cadence wheels. For internal sensors it can be measured by counting the number of times the P arrow on the SETUP PAS DEVICE preview screen flips up and down during one pedal rotation. This setting is populated automatically when a known sensor type is selected, and must be set correctly for accurate display of human pedal RPM.
[ PASD->Signl Type ]
Both Basic PAS and Torque sensors generate a cadence signal pulse as the cranks are rotated. The signal may pulse only on forward pedal rotation with just a single wire, or it may also indicate direction of rotation which requires two wires.
This setting determines the number of input wires that carry cadence pulses so the CA can best use the available information. The type can be determined by examining the arrows next to the 'PD' on the SETUP PAS DEVICE preview screen as the crank is slowly turned. On a single wire sensor only the P arrow will changes, while on a 2 wire sensor both the P and D arrows will flip UP/DOWN.
1 Wire: Cadence pulses appear on the RPM input with no simultaneous change to the DIR input.
2 Wire: Quadrature encoded cadence pulses appear on both RPM and DIR inputs.
[ PASD->Dir Plrty ]
Controls whether 5V on the Dir pin is considered forward or reverse pedaling. If the Dir pin is not connected, then it should be set to 5V = Fwd. Trial and error tests may be required to find the proper FWD or REV setting if the device is quadrature encoded. If pedal RPM registers only when the cranks are spinning backwards, then simply switch this setting to capture forward rotation instead. This setting is populated automatically when a known sensor type is selected.
[ PASD->Trq Scale ]
Sets the scaling factor for converting torque sensor output voltage to newton meters. For devices that sense torque on only one side of the crank, the value should be doubled to simulate the net left and right pedal torques. The value can be set either positive or negative and is populated automatically when a known sensor type is selected. For TDCM Sensors, additional tuning is required and may be initially guesstimated as the number of teeth on the front chainring. So a 44T chainring would be about 44 Nm/V. This option is present only for torque sensor types.
[ PASD->Trq Fault V ]
Sets the threhold voltage above which the torque sensor signal is defined to be faulty. The CA3 has a weak pull-up to 5V on the torque signal line so that with no sensor attached the signal will sit at 5V, allowing they system to detect disconnected or faulty torque sensors. This value should be set higher than the maximum torque signal the sensor can produce, and then any disconnected wire or failure of the torque sensor will result in a fault condition.
[ PASD->Zero Torq ]
The configured zero-torque offset voltage and the present live torque voltage are displayed. The right button should be pressed with the pedals unloaded (zero torque) which configures a new zero-torque voltage from the present live torque voltage. This voltage is displayed when the button is released. Note that magnetostrictive torque sensors (like THUN and NCTE) don't return to the same zero point very well after high torque excursions. This option is present only for torque sensor types.

3.8 PAS Config


These settings configure how the ebike system responds to pedal action when a PAS device is installed. PAS devices can be adjusted for a wide range of performance and these settings are used to tune the PAS system to your personal taste for both basic pedal cadence sensing as well as more advanced torque sensing devices. The use of an Auxiliary Input device is recommended to increase or decrease the assist level on the fly while riding.
[ PAS->PAS Mode ]*
Chooser to select the pedal assist type. In all cases, assist is enabled only when the throttle is off, and is immediately overridden by throttle control if throttle is applied.

Basic (Pwr), and Torque modes use the Power PID controller to achieve constant power control to the motor. In these modes PLim->WGain may need adjustment to reduce assist oscillation or smooth power application.
No Assist: No assist is provided of any kind. However, because a PAS device is installed, the SLim->MxNoPdlSpd setting has effect even in No Assist mode. This can be useful for simple sensor wheels in locales where regulation imposes a pedaling requirement to enable throttle operation, but where PAS assist is not desired. [Default]
Basic (Pwr): When pedaling is detected with no applied throttle, the motor delivers a constant power assistance equal to the power configured by StrtLevel. This power level can be further modified to increase or decrease with pedal cadence according to the ScaleFctr setting.
Basic (ThO): When pedaling is detected with no applied throttle, ThrOUT is set to 0-100% as configured by StrtLevel, and can be further scaled by ScaleFctr to increase or decrease with pedal RPM.
This mode can be used instead of Basic (Pwr) mode with conventional controllers to have PAS level set the approximate cruising speed of the bike rather than the motor power. It can also be used to have cadence based control of motor torque with torque throttle controllers such as the Phaserunner.
Torque: In this PAS mode, the motor power scales in proportion to the human power as measured by the torque sensor. The StrtLevel term sets baseline power output whenever the cranks are rotating, and the ScaleFctr sets how much each additional watt of human power is then multiplied by the motor.
[ PAS->Strt Level ]*
The meaning of this setting depends on the PAS mode.
Basic (Pwr) Sets the baseline power assist delivered when pedaling without the throttle. If there is a ScaleFctr term to further vary the assist with cadence, then this is the power output up to 50 rpm. It can be nice to set StrtLevel to a comfortable background assist and then use the throttle whenever full power is needed.
Basic (ThO) Sets the baseline ThrOUT percentage delivered when pedaling without the throttle. If there is a ScaleFctr term to vary the the assist with cadence, then this is the throttle percentage up to 50 rpm. For most ebike controllers, this sets an effective percentage of the maximum vehicle speed under pedal assist. For torque throttle controllers, it allows PAS mode to control the motor torque output.
TorqPAS: Sets the baseline power assist delivered when pedaling independant of any measured pedal effort. The target motor power is the this StrtLvl value plus the human power output multipled by the ScaleFctr term. This baseline wattage can also be set to a negative value in order to require a minimal human effort before any motor power is provided.
[ PAS->Scale Factr ]*
The meaning of this setting depends on the PAS mode.
Basic (Pwr): Sets how much the PAS power level varies with pedal cadence above 50rpm. Values between 5-20 W/RPM can provide a boost when downshifting and reduce the need for the rider to use PAS Aux Input adjustments for their desired power. Negative values can be used for single speed bikes to provide more power at low speeds and less as the rider speeds up. A setting of 0 has means that the output power is constant regardless of changes to pedal cadence.
Basic (ThO): Sets how much the throttle output percentage varies with pedal cadence above 50rpm. Recommended for ebikes running a Phaserunner or other torque throttle controller to achieve increased motor torque when downshifting.
TorqPAS: Sets the proportional assistance multiplier that is provided based on your human power pedal input. For instance, a setting of 2.00 W/HW means the electrical motor watts will be double the applied human watts.
[ PAS->Asst Avg ]
Determines the amount of pedal rotation (in terms of the number of pulses) over which the torque signal is averaged. The human pedal torque undulates with each turn of the cranks so the signal must be averaged to prevent corresponding pulses of motor torque. Higher values yield smoother power assist at the cost of slower response to changes in pedal effort.
This should be a multiple PASPoles with sensors like the THUN which only measure torque on one side. It can be set in multiples of half pedal rotations for torque sensors that measure both left and right pedal force (eg TDCM). This setting is populated automatically when a known sensor type is selected.
[ PAS->Strt Thrsh ]
Sets the threshold minimum time between pedal sensing events to cause the CA to assume that the rider is 'pedaling' and activate motor assist. If set to a long period, assist will begin sooner when starting from a standstill, but there will also be a longer delay before the motor cuts out if pedaling stops within a single revolution.
Sensors with more poles give brisker response because the CA gets sensor pulses more quickly, and can use shorter threshold times.
[ PAS->Stop Thrsh ]
After the first complete crank revolution, sets the minimum time that must be maintained between pedal sensing events for the CA to assume that the rider is still pedaling. If the time between pedal events is longer than this threshold, the CA will assume that pedaling has stopped and will cease power assist. Short values result in a more immediate cutout in power, while longer values allow for pedal assist even at slow pedal speeds. Sensible values are usually between ' 0.5x-1.0x the StrtThrsh.
[ PAS->Strt Trq ]
Sets a threshold torque that must be present in order for the Torque PAS mode to power the motor when the vehicle is starting from a standstill with no cadence or speed detected. The threshold should be higher than any casual torque that the rider may produce from resting their foot on the pedals while stopped (Typically 15-20 Nm).
[ PAS->ThrshTrq ]
In PAS->Wheel Trq mode, this sets the threshold torque that must be maintained on the cranks while riding to continue getting motor power. For best performance this value should be just a few Nm above the natural varations and drift in the torque reading.
In both PAS->Wheel Trq and PAS->BB Trq PAS modes, this threshold also serves as a safety to prevent motor power from engaging as a result of improper settings. If the measured torque on the sensor is higher than this threshold voltage either on power-up or on exiting the setup menu, then a Torque Fault will be activated. This fault disables PAS ssistance and is only cleared when the measured torque is less than the pedaling threshold value.
 
amberwolf said:
AFAIK it's global.
THe only two PAS config settings in Torque mode that can be different between presets are Assist Start Level in watts, and Assist Scale Factor in watts per human watt.

I can't remember which specific settings are changed to create the start-with-torque-only mode but I can't see how those would do it.

Maybe I'll add a switch in series with the PAS signal line so I can turn if off to avoid accidental activation. I'm willing to deal with that to get instant assist. Seems like the better factory bikes can provide assist from a standing stop, at least it looks like that on YouTube.
 
E-HP said:
Maybe I'll add a switch in series with the PAS signal line so I can turn if off to avoid accidental activation. I'm willing to deal with that to get instant assist.
Remember that its' the torque signal line you would need to interrupt, as the cadence signal will not be monitored in that situation. ;)

It is probably not this complicated, but depending on the configuration of the CA and the hardware from the switch to the CA and it's own input design, you may also need to put a pullup, pulldown, or voltage divider on the CA side of that switch that is engaged *only* when the switch is "off", by using a 2throw switch (1P2T, SPDT) so the center is the CA input, one throw is the signal line from the torque sensor, and the other throw is the pullup, down, or divider.
 
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