super nube strikes asga (HARD!)

[john7700]

Finally got her up and running and decided to go for a nice long ride. Took her down
a dirt track, round a corner and the road just drops away in a huge wash out. I grab
a hand full of break as I bounce and ping off of rocks. Kept my mount and managed
to ride it out in to a sliding stop. Got home and was checking the bike out and it seems
that I smashed away the plastic protective cap and crushed the control wires in to the spring
and against the axle resulting in this unholy mess.

I've got less than 50 miles on this motor! I need help desperately folks. So far I found the
U-Tube video on how to press the motor out of the casing using a large puller but that is the
most helpful thing I've found so far. I need any words, links, videos, schematics etc. That
will help us on our way. I have a friend who is handy with a soldering iron and is an avid stereo
hobbyist and general handy guy who is going to help me wrangle this thing. Any help/info
will be greatly appreciated.

John

 

[AussieJester]

Can't help you now myself but i would suggest to prevent this happening again invest in some torque arms, this will stop the motor spinning in the dropouts... Best of luck getting it repaired, shouldn't be too much drama..

KiM

 

[Rifle]

I don't think a torque arm would have helped here. Torque arms wouldn't do much to prevent a rock from smashing the wires.

 

[liveforphysics]

No permanent damage has been done.

Everytime I get a new motor, first thing I do is cut-off and rip out all that wiring and replace it with bigger stuff. Perfect time for you to do the same.

 

[el_walto]

You need a torque arm. I think you can get at all the wires just by taking the sidecover off, you should not need a press or anything.

 

[neptronix]

I agree with the general consensus..

1. you need a torque arm or torque plate badly on that bike.
2. perfect time to fatten those phase wires. 10 ga or 12 ga would be a big improvement, stock should be either 16 or 14ga..

 

[TylerDurden]

Here is Luke's (liveforphysics) rewire thread:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24547&p=355181

You will prolly want to check the hall sensors in the motor, there are some threads on that around here.

 

[john7700]

Thanks guys,

Sounds like every thing is accessible via the side cover. Great. I looked over LFP's tutorial and it seems just
like what I needed to see to get a better idea of how to go about this. I tried several searches but did not find
this post.

I like the note on the instructions " **Note** This is not easy." thanks :? I have no plans on hot rodding this bike (at least for
now) so I really don't think I need to make the phase wires that much bigger. I would think this will make things easier.

I'll be pulling the cover tommorrow or the next day and will get back to you on what I managed to destroy .

John

Oh, I was fully planning on a torque arm/plate but it did not spin in the drops, it was from the impact in to the rocks.

 

[auraslip]

10 gauge is not easy. 12 gauge is trivial.

For those with out the plastic caps, is there anything better we can do to protect our harness other than velcroing or zip tying the harness towards the frame so that it's not sticking out?

 

[amberwolf]

I redid mine after a similar incident on CrazyBike2 (although mine was knocked over in the house, IIRC, by the dogs or my crazy sister), but i just shortened the existing wiring and stuffed it back up into the axle, rather than replacing it, as it was stil plenty long enough for my needs.

It was definitely very easy once I got the side cover off.


BTW, when you redo it, make sure you pull the cable back against the frame and tie it there, so that it's elbow fully sits recessed in that cutout in teh side of the axle, and it will be protected a lot more from this sort of thing in future.

If you don't need all that axle length for the nut and washers (from the pic, you dont'), you can also deepen that cutout another 1/4" or so, and then have room for an acorn nut plus a wide fender washer or something over the end of the axle to protect the cable even further.

 

[neptronix]

I have no plans on hot rodding this bike (at least for
now) so I really don't think I need to make the phase wires that much bigger. I would think this will make things easier.

That won't last long if you keep hanging around with us. 8)
I like the expression.. if you hang around a barber shop long enough, you're gonna get a haircut.

 

[Philistine]

Luke's thread that TylerDurden posted with is awesome. I did the upgrade using that tutorial, but I stuck to 12 guage as I didn't have the patience for 10 guage. If I were you I would at least upgrade to 12 guage if you are going through the hassle anyway.

If you have access to a three jaw puller it will make getting the side cover off a breeze, takes seconds. If you don't, be aware that the side cover is bonded on with some kind of sealant, so takes a bit of work to pry it off.

 

[dogman dan]

I've done similar damage a few times too. Not running high power on most of my bikes, so I just pop the cover, and carefully pull the wire in some more till the cut part is inside the motor. Then I make repairs to the wires inside the motor. Works ok if you have extra length to start with on the motor wires.

Looks like you have torque washers, and steel dropouts. But a torque plate or torque arm is good if your nut gets loose.

 

[spinningmagnets]

If you have the motor apart and are only re-wiring with 12-ga...add a temp sensor to the stator. They are cheap, and the hard part is pulling the motor apart and re-assembly...which you are already doing.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25502

 

[john7700]

Well, I got it apart with no noticeable damage. Used a box wrench, washer and axle bolt to form a kind of gear puller
from the other side of the axle to walk the cover off. There was some kind of sealant on the inside of the axle
opening that presented a bit of a problem but managed to scrape and cut it away.

A couple of questions. First, can I use standard 12 ga insulated wire or will I still have to do the 3mm shrink wrap trick
for 12 ga as well. Second, LFP mentions epoxying down the connections to the motor windings (mine were not from the
factory) and also using epoxy on the axle openings. What kind of epoxy should I be looking for. I would assume it would
be something that can be removed just in case I do something stupid again.

I have tried to find a temp probe locally but have been unsuccessful would like to get this thing back together and don't want
to have to order it. I have one more store I can hit locally. Also like amberwolfs idea of using an acorn nut to protect the wires.

Thanks guys,

John

 

[liveforphysics]

Well, I got it apart with no noticeable damage. Used a box wrench, washer and axle bolt to form a kind of gear puller
from the other side of the axle to walk the cover off. There was some kind of sealant on the inside of the axle
opening that presented a bit of a problem but managed to scrape and cut it away.

A couple of questions. First, can I use standard 12 ga insulated wire or will I still have to do the 3mm shrink wrap trick
for 12 ga as well. Second, LFP mentions epoxying down the connections to the motor windings (mine were not from the
factory) and also using epoxy on the axle openings. What kind of epoxy should I be looking for. I would assume it would
be something that can be removed just in case I do something stupid again.

I have tried to find a temp probe locally but have been unsuccessful would like to get this thing back together and don't want
to have to order it. I have one more store I can hit locally. Also like amberwolfs idea of using an acorn nut to protect the wires.

Thanks guys,

John

12awg with teflon wire will work if you cut-off the heatshrink around the hall wires. This is a pretty decent and simple setup to do. You likely will have to buy the teflon wire online though, not many places stock it.

 

[liveforphysics]

Also, if you know the maximum axle length you will need with your setup, while the wires are out of it is a great time to cut it's length down. Leave it about 1/4-3/8" long, and grind a slot in the side of it. Run your wires through the axle, and fold the over at the slot (once installed in the bike). This makes a setup that you can bang on all the rocks you want and your wires are protected by the remaining axle stub that protrudes out further than your wires.

 

[Philistine]

Powerwerx (www.powerwerx.com) sell teflon wire. They also sell Anderson connectors.

When I did my upgrade in accordance with LFPs tutorial, I gave up on 10guage and went 12 Guage, and did the heatshrink thing. I recently bought some 10 guage teflon wire from Powerwerx, and I actually think it is not much thicker than the 12 guage heatshrinked wires I made for my hub. This is because the teflon coating on the wire is very thin. I think if you went 12 guage teflon you would have miles and miles of room.

I didn't do the epoxy part inside the hub, and it hasn't been a problem. All I did was use hot glue on where the wires exit the axle and come out. I did this so that if I drop it, the wires are kept in the slot/groove, and the hot glue offers a rubbery cushion for the wires.

 

[john7700]

Thanks for all the help folks. Just to let you know the outcome. I got her back together and running. I wussed out and just cut off and used the OEM cord. I felt like I was letting you all (and myself) down but summers are notoriously short in New England and being my first build I wanted to be able to get out and put some miles on her. The up side is I now know how to go about things and the winters are notoriously long. A big order at the supply house and heavier phase wires, temp. gauge, axle modifications and a whole laundry list of things are in store for Jan. when it is dark at 4:30 in the after noon.

Thanks again for the help. I'm sure I'll be back

J