Sur Ron Storm Motor + Different Controllers Problem

[mokus]

Hello. We've finished recently the build of Kawasaki KX on sur ron storm motor.

And we have an issue with it.
So far we tried 3 different controllers with unacceptable results:

ASI BAC 8000 - controller overheats, drains the battery, power is less than mediocre especially on start.
Fardriver 96530 - controller overheats, drains the battery, power is even worse than ASI
Kelly 7230 - controller turns off on full throttle or on a fast start.

We are going to try other controllers that we will get access to, including the original controller (which just gives an error at the moment and we don't have either software or a manual)

Any help or ideas are appreciated. We've finished a lot of different builds here, mainly on QS motors, but seems like this Storm is a different beast.
And if anyone could explain what's going on on the physics level, would be awesome.

 

[Voltron]

Over geared maybe?
The electric motor would prob want more RPM than a gas engine.

Part of the physics is back EMF.
When the motor spins up, it starts making it's own sort of phantom electricity that pushes back against the electricity from the controller.
When the motor is at a standstill, or low RPM, there's little back EMF, and the electricity surges thru the windings with not much to slow it down, and then slows down as the motor spins up more, but the controller and battery go crazy trying to fill that initial surge, hence the cutting out on hard acceleration and hot controllers etc.

High gearing=low motor rpm and lots of current flow, esp climbing.

 

[mokus]

Over geared maybe?

Nope. It has the original gearbox, hence double reduction. It's ~1:7.7

 

[Voltron]

Maybe needs bigger sprocket on rear still, even with the reduction?

What's the wheel in the air/no load rpm on the motor vs normal operating rpm range?

Just guessing of course.

Looks like it'll be a lot of fun when you get it dialed.

 

[mokus]

Maybe needs bigger sprocket on rear still, even with the reduction?

max motor RPM is 6000 so with this ratio max speed should be around 100km/h
And the ratio is close to the original SurRon Storm. Little change shouldn't result in such dramatic performance losses.

 

[Voltron]

They do seem similar weight wise etc.

How about the new rear tire outside diameter?
If it's bigger enough that effectively raises the gearing.

Not sure what the next step on controller might be for better power handling.... Sevcon?

 

[fechter]

Try measuring the current at full throttle with the wheel off the ground or chain removed. You may need to swap around the hall or phase wires to a different color. Don't assume that by matching the colors it will be correct.

The ASI has a million parameters in software that need to be set correctly. Even experts at ASI have trouble getting these things dialed in. One that is set up for the Light Bee motor should be pretty close.

 

[mokus]

They do seem similar weight wise etc.

My Kawa is at least 15kg lighter

How about the new rear tire outside diameter?

Rear is actually the same: 18"

We want to try Votol next. Which never worked with our bikes, but since this one is so special...

Don't have a sevcon here, and I would buy one if I would be 100% sure it will work, but just to try it's a bit expensive.

 

[mokus]

Try measuring the current at full throttle with the wheel off the ground or chain removed.

It's ~10A. Which is OK, I think.

 

[fechter]

10A sounds in the ballpark. What voltage are you running?

 

[mokus]

10A sounds in the ballpark. What voltage are you running?

21s. ~78 fully charged. My plan was to use ASI, that's why so low.

 

[liveforphysics]

Draining the pack rapidly with a big motor and controller while not making big torque/power is a signature of having a false-positive all combo as Fetcher suggested. There's a couple that will rotate in the intended direction at a greatly reduced torque, but they aren't the combo with mechanically optimized magnetic timing for making torque.

 

[mokus]

Draining the pack rapidly with a big motor and controller while not making big torque/power is a signature of having a false-positive all combo as Fetcher suggested. There's a couple that will rotate in the intended direction at a greatly reduced torque, but they aren't the combo with mechanically optimized magnetic timing for making torque.

False positives shouldn't be the case for Fardriver/Kelly right? They should detect halls/phases correctly on self-learning?

 

[steamdonkey]

For what it's worth the Kelly KLS6018N I have will run very smooth and quiet up to about 1/2 throttle and 1/2 max RPM but much higher than that and it goes insane and starts making chaotic switching noises and pulls huge amounts of current. I don't know if that's false positives or what. Maybe my case is different as the motor is spinning freely with no load.