What's the longest period of time you can store a Li-Ion pack?

Matador said:
I think it's more likely the pack is out of balance from BMS parasitic drain. Think about it, a BMS with a 100 uA parasitic drain, stored for 3 years (3 x 365 day x 24h/days) that's still 2.628Ah drained off of one row of cells (enough to through the battery off balance). And if the pack performed great before storage but now poorly after storage, it's likely due to the BMS draining cells during that time where the battery pack was not particularly stressed.
You bring up a very valid point that i've pondered over and why i decided not to use a BMS for the very reason you mention. Instead balance charge my Vruzend 10S3P pack. I have it wired so it can be paralleled as two 5S3P when balance charging. So have to ask this about that BMS ...

Being the cells are all interconnected why shouldn't the BMS parasitic drain be similar among all the P-groups? So, still the uncertainty whether it's a disfunction with an inexpensive BMS or a few inferior cells? I do get your logic pointing to a BMS disfunction rather than a problem with just the cells in those two P-groups.

What's the best KIS way to determine whether it's a cell problem or BMS problem? Or are we safe to assume it's the BMS. Could that disfunctional BMS have been caused by some abuse to the battery pack?
 
Most BMS are made cheap. Thus the electronic is very basic, hence why it does feed up only of one row of cell rather than feeding equally on all cells. Plus if it is a balancing BMS, and if you use your eBike regularly, the BMS will balance the cells and you wont even notice the unequall draw of current on certain row of cells. But beware, many so-called "BMS" do not balance. These are more acuratlyu refered to as protectiv PCB (that have for function to protect cell from overdischarge, over-charge and overcurrent... But they do not balance).

Some high quality BMS might pull equall draw on all cells, but you would have to research their specs. And most battery builders do not care about very high quality and opt for cheap BMSs.

Being the cells are all interconnected why shouldn't the BMS parasitic drain be similar among all the P-groups?
Because it's cheaper for BMS manufacturers to do it that way.

It's not that the cheap BMS is faulty. It's just that it's design was not thought out to be made for people who plan on storing their batteries for years. Anyways, if you let a Balancing BMS do it's magic balancing every 10 or 20 charge cycles or so, your battery should stay balanced without a problem. But if it a so called "BMS" that does not balance, you are out of luck and need to manually balance the cell yourself.

What's the best KIS way to determine whether it's a cell problem or BMS problem? Or are we safe to assume it's the BMS. Could that disfunctional BMS have been caused by some abuse to the battery pack?

You could use an ammeter to check for the BMS parasitic current value (aka how much uA it pulls), and to check if the BMS pulls that parasitic load on all cells or just some specific rows of cells.

Otherwise if you need to test the cells themselves, it's more tedious. You need to test them for residual capacity (mAh), DCIR (millioms), voltage stability over time (if the cell has an internal short), check if they are old (with the manufacture code on the cell), etc. You can load test the cells to estimate their internal resistance (measure voltage drop of specific cell groups by pulling a know load (in amps, measured with ammeter wire in series) to calculate Internal resstance (using ohms law: voltage drop (delta V) = R x I ).

Matador
 
To just test for go/no-go, no need for great precision.

Actual remaining mAh / Ah capacity as a proportion of when new is all you need.

A CC load at 0.1C to 0.3C, precisely timed

easier with a $100 dummy load, but can be done with an ammeter + DMM + stopwatch.

Or an Ah counting wattmeter, but that's even rougher by a bit.

I would use 70-80% as my SoH EoL indicator
 
I just opened the sucker up and tested each series. And sure enough, there is an unbalanced cell. They all measured at around 3.94v except for that first pairings after the red wire on the jst connector. It red 3.76v. I think the 6th or 7th cell measured at 3.90v.

The cells 2200mAh cells. Couldn't find the branding though. I took a photo, so maybe you guys might be familiar.
 

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ClintBX said:
The cells 2200mAh cells. Couldn't find the branding though. I took a photo, so maybe you guys might be familiar.
Googled all the 2.2Ah cells and the only one with that pink colored wrap is the BAK VL ... https://voltaplex.com/bak-vl-18650-battery-b18650cc ... the most likely candidate

Has identical specs as the LG MF2 ... https://voltaplex.com/lg-mf2-18650-battery-lg18650mf2

Maybe a joint venture production between LG Chem and BAK VL. Would be interested what you guys think of the possibility that BAK VL may be a kissing cousin owned or in partnership with LG Chem ? Especially, [if BAK VL] being they record all that info on the label like LG Chem and the other name brands.
 
I pulled 29 hobbyking 6s 5Ah and 6Ah nanotech packs from 3 yrs of storage a few weeks ago and tested their balance. Out of 29 packs, 1 had a dead cell, the other 28 packs were within 8-30mv of difference. Most of these packs date back to 2011-2013. All were stored at 3.85V 3yrs ago.
 
That's why some people here call BMSs "Battery Murderer Systems".
Matador
 
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