where to buy npc, update-no way unless its 50kg....

ridethelightning

ridethelightning

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Has anyone got any ideas of where to buy nickle plated COPPER strip?



looking for the 0.2-0.15mm x~8mm stuff.

Iv tried emailing a couple of aliexpress vendors but so far no reply.

any advice much appreciated.

Cheers
RTL
 
I had similar problem some time back trying to source same material, I had no luck, how about tabbing wire for solar panels, easy to get and relatively cheap.
 
I ordered mine from here.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cylindrical-battery-nickel-plate-0-15mm-Nickel-Plated-strip-18650-li-ion-battery-nickel-belt-Used/1930319821.html
 
the nickel plated copper strips you need are to weld over 18650 cells?

how is your spot welder? most can't spot weld copper / nickel plated cooper properly with standard copper electrodes
 
Nobuo said:
the nickel plated copper strips you need are to weld over 18650 cells?

how is your spot welder? most can't spot weld copper / nickel plated cooper properly with standard copper electrodes
Click to expand...

yes it is for spotwelding 18650. I have modded a DN10 welder with a 555 timer circut, and can weld 0.15mm ni coated copper onto a cell quite nicely.

this is using the stock copper electrodes.
Rodney64 said:
I ordered mine from here.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cylindrical-battery-nickel-plate-0-15mm-Nickel-Plated-strip-18650-li-ion-battery-nickel-belt-Used/1930319821.html
Click to expand...

was that copper or nickel you got Rodney?
whatever said:
I had similar problem some time back trying to source same material, I had no luck, how about tabbing wire for solar panels, easy to get and relatively cheap.
Click to expand...
thanks for the tip, ill look into it.
I have tried to email these guys, no reply as yet
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/0-2mm-nickel-200-plated-copper_685855268.html?spm=a2700.7724857.35.1.ZiE7bM&s=p
http://www.him23.com/en/product_152.html
 
ridethelightning said:
Nobuo said:
the nickel plated copper strips you need are to weld over 18650 cells?

how is your spot welder? most can't spot weld copper / nickel plated cooper properly with standard copper electrodes
Click to expand...

yes it is for spotwelding 18650. I have modded a DN10 welder with a 555 timer circut, and can weld 0.15mm ni coated copper onto a cell quite nicely.

this is using the stock copper electrodes.
Rodney64 said:
I ordered mine from here.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cylindrical-battery-nickel-plate-0-15mm-Nickel-Plated-strip-18650-li-ion-battery-nickel-belt-Used/1930319821.html
Click to expand...

was that copper or nickel you got Rodney?
whatever said:
I had similar problem some time back trying to source same material, I had no luck, how about tabbing wire for solar panels, easy to get and relatively cheap.
Click to expand...

No nickel, didn't read the question.
Click to expand...
 
ridethelightning said:
Nobuo said:
the nickel plated copper strips you need are to weld over 18650 cells?

how is your spot welder? most can't spot weld copper / nickel plated cooper properly with standard copper electrodes
Click to expand...

yes it is for spotwelding 18650. I have modded a DN10 welder with a 555 timer circut, and can weld 0.15mm ni coated copper onto a cell quite nicely.

this is using the stock copper electrodes.
Click to expand...

That's interesting,

Do you think the welding is enough strong? could you rip a strip and the welded spots remains stuck to the cells? (while the strip break in those points)

Don't you usually have the electrodes stuck to the strips?

And, how much amps do you need to a properly welding to 0.15mm coated copper?
 
when i pulled the strip off the cell after the weld,there were 2 small lumps of copper left there on the cell terminal and 2 holes in the strip where they came from :D
it was a small piece a friend, Kdog, gave me for testing. i think it came from a powertool pack.
results were consistent when repeated.

electrodes sticking diddnt seem to be an issue.perhaps because the copper was coated with nickle(?)

i couldnt tell you how much current there was, just that the dn10 coil is huge and the timer cirut meant all the power was in a very short pulse.
it welds 0.3mm nickle with ease for comparison, without excess heat, and a longer pulse fries the crap out of just about anything, except 0.6mm copper which it couldnt touch.

all of this has given me confidence to try the nickle plated copper strip...if only i could find some!
 
I've been looking for this as well. :/ No clue where to find it...
 
I tend to think that the battery manufacturers nickel plate the copper themselves.

It's possible to do a cheap set-up - a small bath to nickel plate copper strips - with the use of electrodes etc.

You-tube the vids of people electroplating stuff in cups.
 
after speaking to a supplier in honkong, it looks like the moq for nickel plated copper strip would be around 30kg.

im not too sure id be able to move that much of it so it might be worth doing the plating myself.

trouble is, even plain copper strip is hard to find :|
 
ridethelightning said:
after speaking to a supplier in honkong, it looks like the moq for nickel plated copper strip would be around 30kg.

im not too sure id be able to move that much of it so it might be worth doing the plating myself.

trouble is, even plain copper strip is hard to find :|
Click to expand...

Probably because it tends to oxidize nicely in the air...

How much would it be for 30kg of nickel plated copper strip?
 
yeah i was thinking just that :)
...or even a guillotine!

iv asked for a 1kg sample of 100mmx0.2mm. see how we go.
 
so little update on this subject...
npc is the holy grail of 18650 tab welding. iv decided to pursue the loose goose.

It seems diy nickel plating copper is actually pretty straight forward.
http://www.instructables.com/id/High-Quality-Copper-Plating/

here are some tests with 0.16mm copper foil in nickel acetate solution-
PICT0040.JPG
View attachment 1
PICT0038.JPG

all fine and good
also cheap.

the next problem is copper has very low resistivity. this means that a relatively large amount of power is required to make the weld, when compared to something like nickel.
also, it means the path of least resistance is through one electrode, across the copper strip and back up the other electrode(not through the battery terminal under the copper tab)
this can be improved by making a small slit between where the electrodes go.

it seems the best electrodes for welding copper are tungsten or molybdenum tipped. this is due to these metals having very high melting point and having slightly higher resistivity, so the current causes heat in the electrode tip that makes the weld.
some electrodes from japan im looking at right now-
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=f81c378e89&view=att&th=14fd3b3ae901ab9c&attid=0.1&disp=safe&zw

I have been able to weld the npc i made to 18650 but the successful weld was not very repeatable , and due to the high current required, if something goes a little wrong- not enough pressure or surface not clean enough, you getan allmighty ark that blows a hole clean through the can :shock:
so hopefully, using a copper electrode with a moly or tungsten tip, and something like riba's jp welder, i should have some success.

more updates soon, any feedback info on this subject much appreciated :D
 
Completely awesome work. It looks that still not enough reliable because the problem with copper low resistance.

I think this could be experimented with aluminium, it would also have a similar cost, and aluminium has a electrical resistivity almost the double than copper. It is 2.5 time better conductor than nickel, so maybe this is the right metal to tin with nickel and test :eek:
 
thanks Nobuo!
aluminium I thought would be very difficult to coat with any other metal because of its strong oxide forming properties.

its a good conductor yes, and i have seen some evidence of people spotwelding with it, but I have a feeling it will be even more difficult to manage than copper :?:

have you seen any info on aluminium spotwelding to steel(18650 terminals)?
 
some very quick searching came up with the result that thin aluminium can be spotwelded with high current-
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/15485-Can-Aluminum-be-spot-welded

but im assuming they are only talking about welding alu to itself.

i would guesse welding it to nickel plated steel battery tab would be another matter entirely( :?: )
 
Hey RTL
Playing around in my shed today. Was able to reliably weld some of that NPC that you gave me. How?...i beat it out a bit thinner ( not very scientific I know) to emulate the.1 you'll be getting. Then I slotted it, actually it was two parallel strips. Very light pressure on the electrodes and bam! She stuck good! The thinness made all the difference. Same power level as .15/.2 nickel. I reckon with your new moly/W tipped electrodes you'll be rocking. And it's cheap... Like 1/4 the prices for nickel. I'm coming round to the copper idea for my battery

I'll have to be able to weld it with just a small slot/no slot to be really effective
Il keep working on it…
 
thats awesome news!

the 0.1mm stuff should be arriving soon. now just to order the 'trodes....and a dremmel to cut slots :mrgreen:
 
Amazing topic, thanks for sharing! Where did you order copper foil?
 
Piles of vendors on aliexpress. And it's much cheaper than nickel. Buy a sheet and cut it with scissors. Get.1mm max. RTL and I did a fair bit of work trying to get good welds. We've got different set ups but the basics are: use thin copper ~.1mm, jury's out on nickel coating but unless it is perfect (I mean to the micrometer) then it's no go, clean surface thoroughly ( although I didn't and it still worked), slot your tab.
RTL has a more powerful spot welder and can use tungsten electrodes ( my voltage is too low and I can't push the amps through them),but they are the bees nees!
If it were not for the current capacity, I wouldn't use copper bc it's weak and fickle to weld. It took me about 5x time of nickel
I'm going to rewind a huge transformer I got my hands on recently to see if I can use them tungsten thingys :wink:
 
I found "High Quality 100g 99.999% Pure Nickel Ni Metal Flak Powder Reagent" on Ebay. Will it work? I believe it should work even better because powder is easier to dissolve.

Update:
I just realized nickel plates should be used to attach electrodes during dissolving. You can not attach electrode to powder.

1) will it work by just pouring powder into the water and inserting the electrodes (probably not?)
2) can I use HCl + H202 instead like here http://lanthanumkchemistry.over-blog.com/article-the-dissolving-of-nickel-101259615.html ?
3) does it even make sense with powder?
 
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