X5304 chugs once when controller turned on, But doesn't move

[ryan]

I decided to order a 5304 to replace my 5305. I plugged the new motor in and it ran just fine. I took her out for a few miles to see the difference in speed (I didn't even have the cassette installed yet) and everything worked well until...

On the ninth mile of a run I was really taking easy, the motor died. I hadn't charged the batteries in a couple weeks so my first thought was that I was out of juice. (I knew this before even going out and made sure to take her easy and stay close to home.) Strangely enough the Cycle Analyst stayed on even when I stopped, indicating that my battery still had power. I did notice the motor was hot, but nothing unusual. I could hold my had on it for 5-6 seconds before it was too hot to tough. I walked the last mile home to diagnose there. At home I noticed that when I turned the controller on the motor chugs but the motor does nothing when I move the throttle. How can I debug this? Btw, I used lyen's ebike tester to confirm the phase wires are all set.

 

[John in CR]

Now test the hall sensors from the motor using the tester. Then the throttle. I'd save the controller test for last, since it's a bit more complex, but still easy. If motor and throttle fine, then it must be the controller. My guess is a hall sensor or connection, so the first thing I'd try is the connectors, and look at the male spades to make sure one isn't out of line.

FWIW, I consider anything that I can't hold my hand on continuously as being too hot for my tastes.

If your 5305 didn't fail until pulling a trailer on a steep hill, then any lesser hill and no trailer load should be no problem for a 5304, which actually has better copper fill. I do recall someone suggesting a 5306 though.

 

[ryan]

I just got off the phone with ElectricRider after showing them the attached video.

They believe it's my Crystalyte 7240 controller based on Hall Effects typically don't all go bad at once, so turning the wheel a little bit will usually catch the next phase and keep the wheel moving.

I have a male and female mini-XLR coming from Ilia at ebikessf.com tomorrow to plug into Lyen's ebike tester so I can use it much more easily to test both sides of the problem.

But if they're right I'll need some local help fixing my controller that might have a busted mosfet or something. Who's my go-to person in the San Francisco area for replacing MOSFETs? And why would a MOSFET blow at all?

View attachment 5304_and_7240.MOV

 

[John in CR]

I don't know if Lyen is in the repair business, but he knows controllers and is in the SF area. Isn't it under warranty and Electric Rider's problem to rectify?

 

[ryan]

Unfortunately not. The motor is under warrantee, not the controller (since it's an older one, over 90 days -- more like a year).

 

[fechter]

Is it hard to turn the wheel with the power off? If the controller blew a FET, it will make a serious drag on the wheel.

 

[ryan]

Thanks fetcher. I don't think I notice any difference with the controller on or off while turning the wheel.

 

[ryan]

I finally got Lyen's ebike tester set up with the Crystlyte mini-xlr for easy testing but can't get any lights to twitch when I connect the hall effects mini-xlr cable to the motor and spin the wheel manually.

At this point I'm done debugging and just want to get back on the road. So I'm looking to replace my Crystalyte 7240 controller with a new (or used one if I can find one), or similar controller with similar connectors. With a new controller I'll know quickly if it's the motor or controller. Hopefully it's the controller and I'll be back in action very quickly. But if it's the motor, I'll sell the new controller and have to wait for electric rider to ship me a new wheel.

Anyone know the best source for a Crystalyte 7240 controller? Or a similar controller that I can connect into the Crystalyte 5304 without replacing the default mini-xlr and phase wires on the motor?

Thanks.

 

[fechter]

It sounds like maybe the hall sensors in the motor are bad.
You might check with Lyen about how his tester works, but if you are getting voltage to the hall sensors, they should be doing something when you spin the wheel.

 

[mvadventure]

A few years ago (I just checked my posts but failed to check the date) getting caught in the rain drowned my 5304 and controller. I wound up ordering a new 5304 and controller from Electric Rider but while I was waiting on everything to arrive I followed the directions for trouble shooting that Fechter and a couple of other forum members provided. Since rain and the Crystalyte system are not compatible there were a LOT of problems.
Simply taking the wheel apart was impossible without instructions and then testing the hall sensors proved a unique challenge but all this paid off. By following the provided advice I was able to return the new wheel and simply install the new controller followed by a new watts up meter which failed due to the rain.
I thought at the time my problems were over but they weren't. The key switch failed and for awhile it was an intermittent failure. Once the switch was replaced all was well and continues to be well.
This entire post simply means to check your electrical system all the way. My 5304 is now at least four years old, probably closer to five and hauls my giant butt everywhere it wants to go and had over 3 thousand miles showing before one of the cycle computers blew last year. I did notice the new controller was a lot better than the original.
Mike, Palm Coast, FL

 

[oldhaq]

Perhaps a bad connection on the positive or negative wire to the hall sensors, more likely the negative since, since you said you're getting a pulse at start up.
I'm fairly sure that's the symptom from my experience, add to that the tester shows all sensors as dead.
Do you get any indication on the tester at start up?
Have you tried moving the hall wires/connector that go to the motor whilst applying a little throttle?

 

[ryan]

So I took my motor and controller over to Brian Howell at Electro Ride LLC (electroride), in San Carlos, CA.

We hooked up a brand new Crystalyte 7240 Controller to my brand new (but non-working) Crystalyte 5304 and the motor still didn't work. We immediately hooked it up to an older Crystalyte (I believe a 5303) and it worked perfectly.

So my motor is 100% busted. So I'm shipping my 5304 back to Electric-Rider for replacement.

Brian took a ton of time to walk me through all sorts of components and fail points that I should be concerned about, and how to build a really powerful, efficient bike.

Turns out he also sells everything ebikes.ca sells, but in the US. So for those of us here can save on shipping.

He also demo'd his favorite motors, the BMCs. When I get around to building my wife's bike I'm definitely going BMC. I still want the motorcycle feeling of the x5, but compared to a BMC the x5's are anything but efficient. He also had some fantastic battery packs. Much lighter than my Headways for not much more in price.

So while being off the road is a bummer, it's great to find a new (local) supplier for motors, batteries, controllers, and great service.

 

[dnmun]

so you never tested the hall sensors? no toggling with the new controller?

since it ran fine initially, how could the halls all go out at one time if that is what happened? is it possible there is just a bad connection inside the mini XLR connector? maybe the power or ground are loose?

can you still test the hall sensors?

 

[fechter]

Right, probably the hall power or ground line broke somewhere, so all the halls are not getting power.

 

[ryan]

Either way, it's under warranty and I need to get back on the road. So I'm looking to ElectricRider to fix it and get me back on the road.

 

[dnmun]

before you send it back, can you open the mini XLR and see if the wire broke off the end of the pin? then you could solder it up, test it on the old controller, and would then know what happened if you recover. which was why you started the thread to begin with.

 

[ryan]

I opened the mini XLR. Two of the mini-heat-shrinks weren't fully covering the soldering, but none appear to be shorted and all appear to be connected. It's on it's way to ElectricRider in Texas now to fix and send back. Looks like that's another two weeks before I'll be back on the road.

 

[dnmun]

if you have voltage (4.7V) between the red and black on the motor side of the miniXLR, then it sounds like it is broken inside the motor. thanks, dm

 

[ryan]

I wish I tested before shipping. But either way, it's on its way. Two more weeks and I should be back in action.

 

[ryan]

Just got the call from ElectricRider. Turns out one Hall Effect Sensor was definitely bad, but the tech (Steve) said it was especially odd that none of the halls registered on his tester. He replaced all three just to be sure. Rough start.

Hopefully it will be delivered before the weekend.

 

[dnmun]

no, they wouldn't sink current if they had no power.