A different e-Zip Trailz

[bluthermal]

D-man,

If you or someone can point out to me exactly how to post the pictures, and the requirements like max size, I'll try to post a picture at some point. I tried to do it a long time ago and was unsuccessful. The motor has been removed from the bike, but the fan is still mounted.

As a related note, my forced air cooled 24V 450W motor running at 36V died two weeks ago, after about 6 months and about 1000 miles use. It's possible my air filter was neglected and the air flow had degraded, but I'm not sure.

So, since I knew the system was stressed as it was, I opted for two 24V 450W motors (from TNC scooters) running at 36V, and completed the installation this last weekend. Since Monday and Tuesday I've put 33 miles on the system during commutes. It's working great so far. I was planning on using passive air cooling (drilling all the holes, but no forced air system) because I figured the heat loading would be less with the two motors splitting the load.

It took me a lot longer than I expected to hand make my motor bracket, and I ran out of time to drill out the motors for cooling. The pleasant surprise is that I may not need to ventilate the motors after all. So far, they have not got too hot to the touch. I know that the ambient temps are still mild (around 60 degrees F mornings and 70 degrees F afternoons), but I suspect that for now the motors will be OK. When it gets up to the 80s, 90s and 100s it may be a different story.

I gained at least 2-3 mph top end with the same stock gearing, above the single motor setup.

A separate observation is that at my 200lb weight, I get around 1000 miles per rear wheel spoke breakage incident (2000+ miles now on the bike in about a year). I have no idea if that is normal or not. I have decided to make conscious efforts to avoid high speed bumps and transitions at this point, in an attempt to get more life from the spokes/wheels. If anyone has some suggestions on a good source of specific better/best quality spokes that will fit correctly on the Currie rim and hub combo (gauge and length), I'd like to know what they are, and where/how to get them cheap. Where I live the going rate is $20 to true a wheel, $2 per spoke, and $40 to build a wheel (plus $2 per spoke) at the bike shops. I've been to 4 local shops now and none have had (or said they could/would get) spokes the right size for the Currie wheels.View attachment 4View attachment 3

 

[Kurt]

If anyone in Australia wants a dual motor set up I am not using mine any more. both the motor plate two motors and complete wheel.

Kurt.

 

[D-Man]

Looks good bluthermal.

 

[donob08]

bluethermal
I really like your
Ping v1 36V 20Ah battery, half inside case, half out, custom size, half ghetto

I've ordered a Ping v2.5 24V 15Ah battery and have hoped of doing something similar. Ping is custom making it 5.84x8.5x3. I had hopes that the 3" would be 2.5 and it would fit 'inside the box' like Blacklisted's 36V, 10 Ah. Your technique looks good to me. My Ping should be 5/6 inside case, 1/6 out, maybe more ghetto than yours.

Is there anything I should think about in moding the case?
Thanks, Don

 

[bluthermal]

Don,

You need to remove the center support. I put a sturdy piece of plywood on the bottom of my pack to support it. I used pieces/layers of coroplast (looks like corrogated cardboard, but made of polypropylene, sign board material) cut to size as side and top filler where needed. I put the BMS on the side to minimize damage from up and down bumps.

To cut the outside panel off the case flush with the interior of the case (so I could use the removed piece again), I did it by hand with a hacksaw blade. I lost very little material. At each of the 4 sides, I used the interior of the outside half as a guide for the blade. Angle the blade so the teeth are cutting into the plastic when pulling the blade towards you, keep going over the same starting cut over and over (pull to cut, lift blade, return to start point, pull to cut....) shaving a thin groove a little at a time, until the blade finally breaks through. Then you can cut to the corners as usual.

 

[bluthermal]

Frank G,

I don't know about Kurt, but I'm running the two motors in parallel, and was using the one stock 24V Currie motor control at 36V.

All,

However, I know something is wrong with my system now. My dual motor setup worked great for the first week. I have put almost 200 miles on the dual motor system, and the temporary rear wheel repair with replaced used spokes (for $20 labor at the local bike shop) has already failed.

Since that first week, my bike has gradually lost power to the point on today's ride, I have way less power than I did running on one motor. I still don't have a Watt's up, and that would have been great to have for analysis purposes.

So, I'm guessing, A: my stock motor control is gradually dying with the 150% voltage and potentially 200% added current load (and currently near death). Or, B:
My year old Ping V1 battery is now being damaged (even more easily due to age and prior use) by the potentially 200% additional current load (and currently near death). I tested that each of the two motors are still running by themselves, and in parallel.

Any suggestions regarding repairing, motor controls compatible with my current dual motor setup (2X 450W 24V motors running at 36V LipOfe), or troubleshooting hints would be appreciated. I may not be able to make the group ride this Saturday to Balboa

I put my third new wheel on the back, because the back-ordered wheel arrived. I'm not sure if Currie substituted another bike's wheel, but this one has a better quality hub that might be aluminum (vs steel) and a different gear arrangement on the cluster, which now has a 34T granny gear next to the 24T gear. The rim is also a different shape extrusion. Maybe it's the wheel for the Mt. Trails AL model?

 

[Kurt]

Its actually bluthermals thread,I just jumped on with a pic of my dual motor that's fro sale in case some one was interested.

I run the motors in parallel And they share the load. Both motors even each other out. I ran them at 48v through a 33a ecrazyman controller.I haven't had to do any cooling mods as it isn't really necessary with two motors sharing the 33a as each motor is only getting just over 16a.

Rather than jack this thread you can read about my old bike on the link below from last year.

Kurt.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4936&start=0

 

[shayne]

"was using the one stock 24V Currie motor control at 36V."

how did you get on with this long term? i upgraded my battery pack to 36v and it was working ok (and still does intermittently) but the controller now cuts out most of the time soon after switching it into circuit. the battery pack is 40V+ and i'm guessing some over-voltage protection circuit in the 24v controller is probably kicking in. i read somewhere on here that you can stretch it past 36v but don't know what to. anybody here tested the actual tolerance with any accuracy?

does anyone know which controller i should change it to if i a) want to use 3x12v (40v+) charged and b) possibly upgrade the motor from the stock ezip trails motor in the future and still use the same controller (perhaps to ~500w would be what i'd be looking at)?

 

[bluthermal]

Shayne,

When I first switched to 36V (about 40-41V with my fully charged LiFePO4), My stock 24V 450W motor burned up in a couple days with no cooling. Then I got a 36V 250W motor, and it lasted a while, but was over taxed and eventually melted the wire insulation near the brushes where the wires exit the motor, which shorted out that stock controller. Then I forced air cooled a 24V 450W motor with a new stock 24V controller successfully for about 8 months. I didn't do any testing, just went for it.

The controller I installed yesterday was $28 plus shipping from TNC scooters, I picked it because it was cheap and rated at 36V 1000W at 40A , the highest rated 36V they had. I didn't go to 48V because they had low voltage cut offs built into the controllers.

The new controller worked fine today, actually better than the stock Currie controller, but it's only been one day. Wiring it was a bit challenging, and there is no more PAS function, but everything else I had before is functioning.

 

[shayne]

thanks for the reply. i ran mine for a few days - i only travel about 10min at a time though this might not always be the case. i might have to look into that cooling option... and nice to know that the 48v might not work!

do you recall the model number you got from TNC? i too was planning to make a purchase from them (i need a couple of other things too) even though they're in the US, you just don't seem to get the options down here in oz

how has it been going since (this post a couple of weeks back now)?

 

[shayne]

Just an update - my 24V pack has started the same problem (cutting out after turning on). I opened the controller and note there is a 12V relay within that is not holding open. I'm a bit confused as to how this actually works (why 12V?) unless there is a voltage splitter somewhere on the circuit board used to trigger the relay (hence labelled 12V) but the internal capability is 24V+ switching. anyone had the circuit board out? i'm hesitant due to what looks like mosfets hooked in and pasted to the case

 

[bluthermal]

do you recall the model number you got from TNC

It was model CT-660B9, electrical part number 101205.

how has it been going since

Still working well, and still slightly better (speed and power wise) than the stock Currie controller. I have about 154 miles (340 miles total since switching to dual motors) on the bike since last replacing the motor controller with the TNC part.

anyone had the circuit board out?

Yes, the board comes out easy enough. Remove the screws that secure the mosfets to the case. There is a thermal gasket material between the mosfets and the case you'll have to line back up when you put it back together. There is also thermal silicone grease between the mosfets and gasket, and between the gasket and case. If you are careful, you should be able to just reassemble, without the need to add more thermal conductive grease.

 

[donob08]

Shayne
In case you didn't see the other thread, this could be your problem.

I made a discovery others may want to avoid on their eZip. If the switch is left on for an extended time (days) the relay inside the Currie controller that cuts power to the main speed control circuitry if the throttle hasn't been blipped for 5 min or so can hurt itself.
It is a single pole, double throw miniature automotive pc mount relay. When the PIC circuit tells the relay to cut power it is actuated and the NO contacts lock it on until the external switch is ON/OFFed. That gets the power off most stuff, it normally passes through the NC contacts. There are no lights on the throttle to let you know you screwed up. It was days before I discovered I'd messed up. My relay stuck in the NO closed, NC open position. My bike was dead. After some head scratching and surgery it works again. But I'm afraid the contacts are pitted and may hang again. I've ordered a replacement.
Don

 

[shayne]

I believe you're right..... I did note that once my battery seemed to go flat on it's own and I have always assumed that once the throttle lights were out the bike was effectively "turned off"- I therefore do (did) often leave the switch on. For the effort involved compared to the cost of the controller I don't know I'll attempt to source the relay and make the repair.... I also wonder if running 36V has made the situation a little worse by the relay getting a bit hotter (as it still does work from time-to-time) - and I also note that even now on 24V it has an intermittent fault that is made worse by bumpy riding conditions which I suspect could also be related to that relay. thanks for the info.

UPDATE:

I eventually ordered a new controller - however, I found that I could 'jam' that relay open (or closed, whatever it wasn't doing) which resulted in the bike again being operable. I've been running like this on 36v now for months with no problems. The relay seems to cut the current to different parts of the circuit, but not all. I don't know wy it was being triggered (perhaps over-voltage or something else??).

if anyone else has this problem, snap the cover off the relay - i jammed the end of a cable-tie to make sure the contacts stayed touching. dodgy as, but despite the rough terrain i go on it has lasted quite well.

 

[smay28]

So, I'm now looking for a second Currie rack mount battery case, if anyone has one cheap. I live in Mission Viejo, CA, USA 92692.

I'll probably also be ordering one or two of the custom batteries from Ping, same as what you are using, in the near future.

How is your motor holding up? It's hilly where I ride, is it hilly where you ride too?

Did you do anything to bypass the speed limiting circuitry?

Thanks for your posting. [/quote]


I'm in Mission Viejo as well.. Stock Mtn. Trailz I've had for about 3 weeks.. 5.7 mile commute to work.. Saving mad cash on not visiting the pumps but would love to kick this thing up to about 35 mph if possible. I'll keep reading the threads..

Cheers,

 

[bluthermal]

Smay28,

Not sure if you're asking me, but if you are: My dual motor conversion is still working well, the two (450W) motors (from TNC scooters) now have about 1080 miles on them. I haven't done anything to them since I bought and installed them in the dual configuration. I'm thinking I should re-grease the gearbox soon.

The 36V motor controller from TNC scooters has about 180 fewer miles on it than the motors, but is still working fine.

It has not been as hot as usual this summer, and I have not felt the need to monitor the dual motors, heat, If I was using the forced air cooling on a single motor, I suspect my lack of maintenance might have it fried by now.

I've heard of people on this forum supposedly running dual motors without forced air cooling at 48V OK, but can not confirm it. If so, you should be able to get to 30mph with that setup easily. You might even make close to 35.

 

[bluthermal]

Oh yeah,

It's hilly where I ride, and I do my best to avoid the hills in my commute.

There is no speed limiting circuitry, the speed is limited by the rider weight, wind resistance, gravity, rolling resistance, voltage, gearing, amps pulled and motor size only.

 

[smay28]

Smay28,

Not sure if you're asking me, but if you are: My dual motor conversion is still working well, the two (450W) motors (from TNC scooters) now have about 1080 miles on them. I haven't done anything to them since I bought and installed them in the dual configuration. I'm thinking I should re-grease the gearbox soon.

The 36V motor controller from TNC scooters has about 180 fewer miles on it than the motors, but is still working fine.

It has not been as hot as usual this summer, and I have not felt the need to monitor the dual motors, heat, If I was using the forced air cooling on a single motor, I suspect my lack of maintenance might have it fried by now.

I've heard of people on this forum supposedly running dual motors without forced air cooling at 48V OK, but can not confirm it. If so, you should be able to get to 30mph with that setup easily. You might even make close to 35.

Thanks for the info bluthermal.. I love this forum..

 

[smay28]

Oh yeah,

It's hilly where I ride, and I do my best to avoid the hills in my commute.

There is no speed limiting circuitry, the speed is limited by the rider weight, wind resistance, gravity, rolling resistance, voltage, gearing, amps pulled and motor size only.

I think you blew by me yesterday on my way home from work.. If it was you, you were hauling ass up Trabuco and passed me and left some guy with shaved legs and a roadie in your wake.. Lost sight of you (I think) just as you passed Puerta de Luz just before Margerite Pkwy.. Looked like you make pretty good time without to much effort on that thing.. Very cool..

Only thing I noticed was the dual 450's on the rear.. No way I was going to catch you, even if we caught all red lights! That was great..

 

[bluthermal]

Smay28,

Sounds like you did see me. That's the route I take going home from work. I remember both who was probably you on a non-roadie style bike, and the roadie. I live pretty close to Margarite and Trabucco. Since switching from the single forced air cooled 450, to dual stock 450s (and non stock 36V controller required at that point) my avg speed has gone from around 19mph estimated (single) to 21mph estimated (dual). My bike computer isn't calibrated, but I've seen the speed differences between my computer and the car speed display on the roadside . Feel free to pm me if you want. I'm usually pretty busy, but happy to meet or talk if doable. You'll likely see me again.

 

[317537]

I'll soon find out if my ezip controlle handles 36v.

I have a Pingbattery custom fit for the existing battery box on the way.

Doesn't matter much if I blow the controller or burn the motor as its an excuse to upgrade!

I own one just like this and 36v wont work. Oh it will for a little while then it fries the windings. The gearing is not suitable for 36v as the motor can not wind up in time.

If you can get a few less teeth on your motor cog or a few more on your wheel cassete youre in bussiness. My dyno BMX uses the same motor and on a BMX wheel 36v is awesome.

You just cant push these motors at this gearing with 36v.

And the controller has been filled with plastic so you cant access the parts.

I screwed a pentium heat sink on the motor and had some sucess, they fit perfect. .

 

[317537]

Arrrhg someones pinched my c1 motor and mounting from the ezip trails.

Was going to take a picture of the heat sink screwed to it and its gone.

Anyone using that motor on a bike without the currie symbol around here is going to have to answer a few questions aye.

The P4 heat sink screws to the housing. I used longer screws to hold the heatsink firmly onto the motor and nuts on those screw to hold the cover on aswell.

 

[alswiseowl]

what,some &%#en person has stripped the motor + mount from your bike,what k&^t$...
where i live theres heaps of thievies around,that will either shifty it from right under your nose,or straight up smash you off it,(good old public housing)thats why i ride with a nice heavy duty chain around my shoulder,lol with a even chunkier pad lock on it for extra swinging power (hai-ya)....

if you are in oz i would give ya my my1018 motor for free,if your in sydney that is.in 2weeks...im going for cyclone kit finally saved enough $$$ for it
other wise if your interstate or international you cover postage.but for the motor mount plate i think tncscooters sell them,but im not sure if it will fit you izip or ezip...

sorry to hear about that mate.
p.s tomorrow is always another day,+its a small world, :wink:

 

[317537]

Ahhh its ok I have a spare currie Dyno. I didnt realise this thread was so long. I responded to the first post in turn.

My ezip trails now has a golden motor hub had the rack replaced with a baby seat.

 

[317537]

The infamous Reid has an informative thread on these motors here.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=525