A-Lines Abound: First ride after some major changes

MattyCiii said:
THANKS Adam.

I took new-in-box CAv3 and did:
1) Removed the Torque/PAS JST connector, left it aside.
2) Rigged it for RC drive (my RC brothahs know what I'm talking about)
3) Wired in an extra long speedometer pickup. Having the pickup on the rear wheel is more elegant than on the front. On the front, 4" of suspension == 4" of wire flex (because the wire basically flexes straight up and down). Having the pickup on the rear wheel, suspension impacts the RPM sensor as degrees not inches, which is much kinder to a pickup wire. Also, I have some magnets on order and plan to have 6 poles per revolution vice the present day 1.

4) I also installed the GPS tracker on the bike. I'll still keep it in arms reach at all times, locked when unsure etc - but a multi-faceted defense is best, so the GPS tracker is on at all times. It has about 7 days run time between charges. 8)
Click to expand...
I was asked in a PM what GPS tracker in installed. I figuered maybe better to answer here in the thread. I started a thread on the topic about a year ago:
GPS Tracker: "GPS103A" from dealextreme.com (a user review)
Sadly the shoddy install job did resulted in a severed power lead when I hit a bump (so the GPS is inoperative). So the GPS is sidelined again till I can get to soldering up the wire and doing a more professional installation.
 
Ch00paKabrA said:
Wow! What a great build. I don't understand what the issue was with getting the tires on the rims though. I am also using 21 inch rims (excel, because you can get them used on ebay for around $30 - $50) and street tires. Mine are enduro so maybe the side wall is a little softer. But either way, there is a trick to getting them on (and off for that matter).

Here is the trick, for future reference.

Most people will pick a side and put one bead on and then the tube, and then spoon the other bead onto the tire. With street tires, this is very difficult and you will almost always lose some skin off of your knuckles trying to get the tube in after the wheel is half on.

Do not do this.

Step 1: Put the tube on FIRST.

Step 2: Put the rim with the tube inside the tire. It actually pops in easily - so now you have your rim with tube inside the tire and you have a bead on the outside of both sides of the rim.

Step 3: Spoon one bead onto the tire making sure that you END the spooning at the tire valve.

Step 4: Repeat Step 3 on the other side.

Step 5: Inflate the tire.

I really like your tires so I think I might get some of those and try them out. The enduro tires are only about $50 each though, yours are a lot more expensive but the green rims really look great.

Good Luck and thanks for all the info.

Ch00p
Click to expand...
Great info Ch00paKabrA, and very timely too. I have parts on order for mey next wheel build (16" moto tires on an extra wide 406mm rim) so these tips & tricks will definitely go to good use!
 
Quick update:
On the way home I stopped and chatted with an someone interested in the bike. While pointing out what does what, I noticed some stuff was loose...

My rear wheel is built around a NuVinci N-360 for CVT goodness while pedaling. My electric drive and rear brake both interface to the NuVinci disc brake mount:
DSCF3351.JPG


Stacked right on top of this interface is a sprocket carrier from FFR Trikes, shown here. This is a wheel from my folding bike, but they're set up the same.
DSCF3298.JPG


Outboard of the sprocket carrier is the disc brake rotor. This is a busy picture. At the bottom, just right of center you see the acorn nut on the rear axle. On its lower left and upper right you can see the heads of 2 of 6 disc brake bolts. These bolt into the disc brake carrier of the NuVinci, through the disc brake rotor then the sprocket carrier:
DSCF3852.JPG


The bolts have all backed off at least 1mm, and there's noticeable slop in the chainring and disc brake.
:(


An RC drive like this does not need torque arms, due to the way the torque is applied to the rear wheel through the chain. But now I've found my analogy. The 6 bolts that mount the rear drive sprocket and disc break see the same forces as the dropouts of someone using a high power hubbie and aggressive regen. In the near term I'm going to sock down the disc brake bolts. In the longer term I'm going to figure out whether I need to upgrade those bolts to something better (right now I'm using stainless bolts but I don't know enough about materials science to know if this is a bad move).

Tomorrow I commute on the ol' trusty folding bike.
 
MattyCiii said:
Quick update:
The bolts have all backed off at least 1mm, and there's noticeable slop in the chainring and disc brake.
:(
The 6 bolts that mount the rear drive sprocket and disc break see the same forces as the dropouts of someone using a high power hubbie and aggressive regen.
...In the longer term I'm going to figure out whether I need to upgrade those bolts to something better (right now I'm using stainless bolts but I don't know enough about materials science to know if this is a bad move).
Click to expand...
Actually, I would guess that normal monster brake torque exceeds anything you're going to see from the sprocket, but I suppose it's the bi-directional forces that walked the bolts out. Still - a little surprising the threadlock didn't hold - did you degrease the threads (brake cleaner) before applying it?

Nord-Locks come to mind. Here's the company page on Nord-Lock dimensions. Here's the Grainger page for M6 parts. Or - drill the bolt heads and get some SS safety wire to work back there...
 
Well, here's where a dumb decision had negative impacts down the road...

Since I have so much stuff bolted to the disc brake mounts (brake rotor, then the chainring carrier, and at one time - I was using 2 * 2mm spacers to get the chain aligned right), I put the OEM disc brake bolts on the shelf and I ordered some longer, stainless steel replacements. Of course stainless has different properties than the original bolts - but I'm dim sometimes.

I bought a bunch of these SS bolts. They fit both my bikes, and maybe I got a deal on a lot of 50 or whatever, I don't recall. All I know is, when installed tight, they've been a SOB to remove. About 1 out of 5 will strip their allen key hole as I try to loosen the bolt. So I end up using the dremel tool to cut a slot, and loosen the bolt with a flat head screwdriver. Fearful that I might some day shear the bolt head right off (thus ruining the disc brake adapter to the NuVinci), I have not been using loc-tite on the bolts. I've been using anti-sieze!

The real solution is to go back to the original bolts, use loc-tite, and torque them to spec. The bike is off the road a few days as I go looking for said bolts and also work up a list of tweaks I want to get done all at once.
 
I never use loctite. I always use stainless bolts without any problems. You could use steel too and just coat them with wax to keep them from rusting.

Or you could get some titanium bolts.

Matt
 
MattyC,
I've certainly had experience with stainless bolts not reacting as well to Loctite as say zinc plated or black oxide treated bolts. Loctite even has specific products to deal with stainless fasteners. As I think was pointed out before, cleanliness is key. Most disc brake kits that come with the disc mounting hardware has the pre-applied threadlocker on black oxide treated fasteners.

Or go aircraft and safety wire them!

-steve
 
The path forward is clear. I'm going to use standard disc brake bolts when I fix this problem.

While the wheel is off I plan to:
1. Remove the s#itty kick stand. It's already falling apart.
2. Swap out the 53t chainring for a smaller one. I have a 52 and a 48 laying about, I'll toss a coin. the 48t should get my top speed up to about 36mph.
3. I'm going to epoxy 6 magnets to the disc brake rotor - evenly spaced between the bolts. These are for speedometer pickup. 6 magnets will give me excellent speedometer resolution, where I can use the CAv3 to maybe speed govern the bike (as a "street legal" second setting, two-button toggle when I see blue lights...)

There's probably more. I have a list of "things to do when rear wheel is off..." list, somewhere.
 
A local advocacy group is holding their second annual "Rush Hour Race". It's one of those "who's faster in the city - train, bike or car?" deals. This year, they're adding a runner and a skate boarder. Others are welcome/encouraged to ride along in support - but will be asked to start 10 minutes after the 5 official participants start.

I'm going. I'm bringing the A-Line. And my goal is to spark enough interest among the participants/organizers that next year, I'll be participating. Also, I plan to finish first in spite of the fact that I'll be launching 10 minutes behind the 5 official participants :D

To get things ready, I got to work right away when I got home. The bike's been laid up a few days for maintenance. I got the following done:
1. Removed the crap kick stand.
2. Swapped the wearing 53t chainring for a 52t I have laying around. That'll be good for a 33mph top speed. I also replaced the e-drive chain, which was about 0.8% "stretched".
3. Over the last 2 days I did indeed epoxy 6 magnets to the disc brake rotor for high resolution speed pickup. Sadly one was a little too far from center and hit the disc brake caliper mount. I'll be wanting to replace that, but no hurry... The speedometer pickup is still in the front of the bike.
4. Installed a mount for my backpack on the front of the battery box. The rear mount does not work! There's too much rear suspension travel, so the back pack hammers the rear mud guard when I hit a good bump, doing all kinds of damage.
5. Repaired the double row of LEDs on the rear fender. See #4 above as to why they were broken.

Also tomorrow will be the debut of some new riding gear. My two wrecks this winter in traffic, plus a fall while riding around in deep snow for fun, all left me nearly un harmed because the motorcycle jacket and helmet I was wearing. But when temps get above 55f, it's too hot to wear on the ride home and too bulky to pack. So I went and purchased a summer weight "mesh" breathable motorcycle jacket. I have 30 days to try it and return it if it does not work out. The next few days will be a great test for this jacket, as temps will be cool. I plan to wear just the jacket and a T shirt underneath, and If I don't freeze my arse off in the morning, then it's not very ventilated is it.
 
The Rush Hour Race was fun. I might post a separate reply about the experience, but overall I had a lot of very positive interest in the e-bike from all participants.

While prepping for the event, I noticed my rear wheel was wobbly. Not surprised, I had no experience base to know how much to tension a motorcycle rim to a bicycle hub and spokes. So, last night and tonight I had the bike on the stand and have been tweaking the rear wheel back into true.

Also tonight I decided it's time to install an e-brake cutoff switch. Honestly that switch would have been a whole lot more useful when the bike was new and I did a couple "unintentional burnouts" by laying on a little throttle at a stop and responding by applying brakes instead of dropping the throttle. But whatever - an e-brake cutoff can be extremely useful in a split second, should my throttle ever short or something else go wrong.

I'm using Magura Gustav brakes. Great brakes. I had a bleed kit and spare "royal blood" on hand, plus a hydraulic pressure switch. So all's needed is to cut the brake line about 5 inches from the brake lever and install the pressure switch. Easy peasy. Then there's the wiring. The pressure switch has a coaxial type connector, but the CAv3 uses a 4 pin JST connector. I decided long ago that I'll adapt my brake pressure switches to the CA standard rather than vice versa (and rather than making a coaxial-to-JST pigtail). That wiring went smooth too.

The hard part - this should not surprise anyone - was getting air bubbles bled from the system and the whole thing adjusted to apply the right force to the rotor with the right amount of lever throw. That my friends was a pain in the azz.
 
Heheee I won some people over.

The Rush Hour Race had 5 official entrants: a biker, driver, subway rider, runner and in-line skater. I'll go on record right now and say I'll do my level best to have a sixth category - e-biker - in next year's heat.

Those who came out in support of the ride were encouraged to participate - but, to let the official participants to move unobstructed, we were asked to wait 10 minutes before starting. I had designs on a route that was straight and fast, that a biker would not dare take but a motorist would get snarled in traffic on. I thought - I'll go WOT on said roads, and overcome the 10 minute delayed start and WIN. But when push came to shove I decided I'd rather pedal along with the convoy of supporters than blaze down the road solo and try to be first. I think it was the right choice, I got a very warm welcome from everyone I talked to. With all the talk lately about prejudice against e-bikes, I think I made a good impression on behalf of us all.
 
Full results are here: http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2013/05/07/rush-hour-race-boston-commute/
But quick summary:
1. Train rider, 25 min
2. In-line skater, 28 min
3. Biker, 30 min
4. Runner, 40 min
5. Driver, 50 min

Word on the street is the biker took a dive, rode a meandering path.
 
Commuting home tonight - about 2 miles into the 8 mile ride - something bad happened. Yeeeeeeah.
My electric drive ate my chain tensioner. And since I was not carrying a chain tool (I'm running a chain with no master link), I had to walk the bike, slowly and carefully, to keep the chain from getting bound up in the rear wheel parts.

Careful I was, avoid binding I didn't. Frustrated I sat on the corner. This is a busy bike corridor, so I greeted each passerby with the succinct query "chain tool?" Maybe after 6 or so people, one guy stopped. "I don't think so but I'll check". Then he recognized me - we chatted yesterday at a light. Well, he had one - as part of this awesome Park Tool multi-tool. I broke the chain, we chatted a bit, then went on our respective ways.

Except for the hills, it was a pleasant ride. But the bike os out of commission for a while :x
 
Here are some pictures of the aftermath. The damage was confined to the chain tension, but since I have no spare...
Moreover, just slapping a spare on the bike is not the right medicine. This is the second time I've had the drive chain munch on the tensioner - so I want to do more than just return to the status quo. I think I have a fundamental problem in the mount point of the tensioner, that then requires it to have a bad angle with respect to its springs and the chain line. Sadly I created the mount with too much "lightening holes" and not enough prospective mount points for the tensioner. This will probably mean an expensive do-over in the rear dropouts :x

Here's the ruined Surly Singelator chain tensioner. Not the best camera angle... it doesn't look THAT bad, does it?
DSCF4136.JPG


Yeah well now it does!
DSCF4137.JPG


Hopefully I can get away with buying an upgrade kit (http://www.amazon.com/Surly-Tensioner-Parts-Singleator-Upgrade/dp/B001CJVIH2), which looks like it includes all the components I've destroyed.

More pix of the carnage:
DSCF4142.JPG


DSCF4139.JPG


Nad of course the obligatory hint at what I'm doing in the short term, to cope with the situation:
DSCF4143.JPG


Finestkind.
 
what about using a car timing belt tensioner as a base for a new setup. they have a spring loaded plunger with oil dampening. they are a throw away part of every timing belt change so there should be a few around any shop. maybe alittle heavy but really tough and free.
 
THANKS Bill,
I'll check that out. All options are on the table, I want this bike to be reliable as it's really hard to pedal home!
 
I just remembered:
I used half of a Surly Singleator and half of an Origin8 chain tensioner to build my chain tensioner solution for my folding bike. The part I didn't use on that project is exactly the part that the A-Line munched.

<runs downstairs... rummages through boxes... >

Found it!

OK, it looks like I can get the bike back on the road as is. I've ridden several months and several hundred miles with this setup, so maybe I can ride it a little more while I design a better solution. Of course, maybe that's a perfectly bad idea too.
 
Replace that noisy tensioner with a skateboard wheel. Slice it narrower and put a groove for the chain to stay in and align. Cheap, easy, good cheap bearings readily available, virtually silent even with a chain rolling through it, and it can't get eaten so the chain tensioner itself will never put you sitting on a curb.

Of course if you have a chain drive you gotta carry that chain tool at all times. Mine doesn't pedal so well, so I carry an extra chain too.

John
 
Hey Matt!

I was reminiscing thru this thread! Awesome work! I'm trying to figure out what Rim/Tire combo to go with that won't take 3 guys to change! lol :)
Also, I kept seeing "LEFTY FORK" and thought you meant "HEFTY" then I saw "LEFTY" again. Now I get it!
I had to see this pic to get it!
Did this come stock on the Norco?

Tommy L sends.....

DSCF4095.JPG
 
John in CR said:
Replace that noisy tensioner with a skateboard wheel...
Click to expand...
Great suggestion. As I look over my "fix it right" options that'll be in the mix. There are a lot of skateboard tensioner solutions out there in the recumbent forums, lots to draw ideas/inspiration from.

If I can get over a chest cold that's been hurting me the last few days, I plan to take this bike to the White Mountains of NH this weekend and ride some with my motorcycle friends. So, my "fix it quickly" plan is to use the rebuilt Surly Singleator.

John in CR said:
Of course if you have a chain drive you gotta carry that chain tool at all times.
John
Click to expand...
Yeah lesson learned the hard way. I can pedal that bike a long way - it has awesome gear range. I even got it up over some small but steep hills as I neared home. Patience is a virtue. But this was only possible because of my Good Samaritan friend who stopped. I now have a chain tool in my back pack.

Tommy L said:
I was reminiscing thru this thread! Awesome work! I'm trying to figure out what Rim/Tire combo to go with that won't take 3 guys to change! lol :)
Click to expand...
I've thought about "right sizing" wheels a lot - I've put a lot of those thoughts down in my third bike build thread. The combination of parts is hopefully going to be very durable without being overboard. And I can literally change these tires with nothing but fingers - don't even need plastic bicycle tire levers.
DSCF4127.JPG


Tommy L said:
Did this come stock on the Norco?
Click to expand...
No, I bout the Norco as nothing but a frame ($400 on ebay, new). The Lefty was sourced from Project 321
 
Quick updates:
1. I slapped the old (rebuilt) chain tensioner back on the bike. See the picture below, center frame. With a quick test ride under my belt, it feels OK... but again I will definitely be implementing a long term solution, thanks for the great input guys.
DSCF4175.JPG


2. Like my other bike, I installed a thermistor to monitor motor temperature. I've also decided I'll be buying a Cycle Analogger from ebikes.ca so I can start looking at telemetry of temp versus throttle/power. I'm getting the one with built in GPS so I can look at speed/power versus the grade/slope of the road.

3. I also took lots of new pics, coming right up in another post...
 
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