Agni motor tuning and racing

I just smoked an Agni in under 1 mile of normal Luke-pace riding. Now my leathers and shoes reek like burning Agni where the smoke was billowing out onto them.

I ride hard, but seriously, I would like to get over 1 mile per motor.
 
Wow, what were you doing to it? Total overheat or brush failure?
Lucky you've got a box full:D

I've yet to smoke one on the road, though I always setup to within the limits of decent commutation if I'm going to ride hard..

Jozz
 
Jozzer said:
Wow, what were you doing to it? Total overheat or brush failure?
Lucky you've got a box full:D

I've yet to smoke one on the road, though I always setup to within the limits of decent commutation if I'm going to ride hard..

Jozz
Click to expand...


I haven't taken it off or apart yet to find out. It went down like this:

I noticed motor burning smell. Ignored it and kept doing technical aggressive WOT riding.

Motor made some clunking and grinding noises. Ignored them and kept WOT riding.

Motor started to cut-out and only sometimes jerk forward. Turned around to head back to the shop.

Motor stopped making torque with throttle applied entirely, throttle only controlled the amount of emitted smoke. Played in traffic walking the bike in my leathers hitting the throttle and emmiting smoke until that stopped as well.
 
Lol, so you wern't expecting it all when it finally gave out then? :D
Mechanical sympathy FTW!


Jozz
 
1 mile is not very long to burn a motor.... Maybe I should stick to the BLDC crap afterall.... You must have an insane current limit on it though eh?

Throttle controlled smoke machine though?... That might be worth a $k.
 
Jozzer said:
Lol, so you wern't expecting it all when it finally gave out then? :D
Mechanical sympathy FTW!


Jozz
Click to expand...


If it was going to fail, I wanted it to fail as close to the shop as possible to minimize my walk-home distance.
 
Also, I should add, this is not normal Agni representative. I can normally run a full pack through them with nothing more than some strong motor smells, but they take it like a good date for hundreds of rides. This one must have had some sort of defect or something in it. I will try to pull the brush carrier and take a pic.
 
Got some time to take a peeksy at what happened to this poor motor.

Enjoy!

agnibrush2.jpg


agnibrushes.jpg
 
The cool part is, that commutator face on the rotor can be cleaned up on a lathe, then installed in the motor, spun with a drill and cleaned up with a stone, and a new brushholder installed, and it will run like a champ. :)
 
Only if you didn't throw molten tin everywhere, the rotor can be salvaged. It looks like all the opposite brushes failed - all positive or all negative ones?
 
jonescg said:
Only if you didn't throw molten tin everywhere, the rotor can be salvaged. It looks like all the opposite brushes failed - all positive or all negative ones?
Click to expand...


I don't remember which polarity always fails (jozzer can tell you).

Agni's that spray a little solder seem to still do very well when turned a bit on a lathe and reassembled. (At least in my experience)
 
On the subject of the thermistors - why couldn't you wire them in parallel and then plug them into the controller so as to dial back the signal? If motor one has a thermistor value of 40 kOhm, and motor two has a thermistor that's on the cusp of catastrophe, ~2 kOhm, then 1/Rtot = 1/R1 + 1/R2, = 1/0.525 = 1.9 kOhm = Woah, throttle back Kelly!

Page 12 on the wiring diagram shows a thermistor lead that may be utilised, but I don't know what it does or whether it's OK with 2 kOhm being the signal...

http://kellycontroller.com/mot/downloads/KellyKDHEUserManual.pdf
 
jonescg said:
On the subject of the thermistors - why couldn't you wire them in parallel and then plug them into the controller so as to dial back the signal? If motor one has a thermistor value of 40 kOhm, and motor two has a thermistor that's on the cusp of catastrophe, ~2 kOhm, then 1/Rtot = 1/R1 + 1/R2, = 1/0.525 = 1.9 kOhm = Woah, throttle back Kelly!

Page 12 on the wiring diagram shows a thermistor lead that may be utilised, but I don't know what it does or whether it's OK with 2 kOhm being the signal...

http://kellycontroller.com/mot/downloads/KellyKDHEUserManual.pdf
Click to expand...


The age old problem with a brushed motor, is where do you put the temp sensor that has any meaning? Every agni I've smoked has had temp sensors with controller cut-backs. But the temp sensor can be cool as it needs to be while the rotor is melting down.
 
liveforphysics said:
jonescg said:
On the subject of the thermistors - why couldn't you wire them in parallel and then plug them into the controller so as to dial back the signal? If motor one has a thermistor value of 40 kOhm, and motor two has a thermistor that's on the cusp of catastrophe, ~2 kOhm, then 1/Rtot = 1/R1 + 1/R2, = 1/0.525 = 1.9 kOhm = Woah, throttle back Kelly!

Page 12 on the wiring diagram shows a thermistor lead that may be utilised, but I don't know what it does or whether it's OK with 2 kOhm being the signal...

http://kellycontroller.com/mot/downloads/KellyKDHEUserManual.pdf
Click to expand...


The age old problem with a brushed motor, is where do you put the temp sensor that has any meaning? Every agni I've smoked has had temp sensors with controller cut-backs. But the temp sensor can be cool as it needs to be while the rotor is melting down.
Click to expand...

Could you mount a IR temp sensor somewhere to point straight at the rotor? And would that work?
 
Done it. Lens clogs up with brush dust on the first ride.
 
One of these might work, but with a normally open option:
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ST3825&keywords=Thermal+Circuit&form=KEYWORD

but again , where do you put it where it actually reports a useful temperature. Bakelite doesn't conduct heat as well as you would like.
 
This is just the Macgruber in me thinking, but if dust clogging the lens is the only issue, could the sensor be placed into a small tube that forced enough air into the motor as to keep the dust from coming near the lens?
IR Temp sensor.jpg
 
Isn't the airflow pattern on the Agni sort of intake on the sides and outflow radially? If so, place the sensor on the cast drive face where the inflow air will wash the IR sensor face, near, but not at the full radial direction. Idea is to have it exposed to fresh air with some velocity. Just an idea.
 
Hi Folks,

Earlier in this thread I raised an issue I was having with excessive brush wear. I sent the motor to Steve Labib (Jozzer) for analysis with the following results:

Steve verified that I had not abused the motor with excessive current and noted the following anomolies:
  • low resistance to center hub of motor (see earlier in this thread where I measured 8.3K between power terminals and perforated metal case) although no dead short in armature
  • copper spacing in armature uneven. See attached picture for details
  • armature spacing slightly off to one side (I'm not sure what Steve meant on this one, I'm just quoting)
  • magnet rings not correctly aligned - magnets on one side 1mm offset to magnets on other side. This would have the effect of mixed timing
  • bad riveted connection between copper wire and one brush. He hadn't seen this before and I believe may have forwarded this brush to the manufacturer for analysis. This wasn't anything to do with my original problem since I was getting excessive brush wear on the previous set of brushes.

He realigned the magnets, replaced the armature, brushes and, for good measure, the bearing.

Agni covered the cost of the replacement armature under warranty and were also kind enough to supply new brushes at no charge.

I have done 500 miles on the motor since it was repaired and things are much better now. There is no appreciable brush wear and interestingly, my top speed has increased from 55mph to 60mph! I am very happy with the speed and quality of Steve's work and appreciate Agni for coming through on the replacement parts.


Barron
 
Hi Battman,

Excellent, glad to hear it's working out better for you.

The speed increase is due to the magnet rings now being properly aligned, you should now manage thousands of miles before the brushes need replacing again..

Thanks for the feedback, you were a pleasure to deal with yourself!

Steve
 
Jozzer said:
Unfortionatly there is no easy way to wire them up in series or parallel, I usually plug mine straight into my "Methods LTC BMS" and program it to cut back at a temperature of my choice;)
Later this year I'll be offering a gizmo to do this, along with lots of other safety/performance enhancing tasks...I'll be sure to mention it here when it's ready.

Steve
Click to expand...

Any news or details on this "gizmo"? :) would you reccomend the same 1mm/150amp for the 111rDr?

Brock
Www.Winzeracer.com
 
"Gizmo" is on its way - Methods is putting it all together for me now..

And yes, something like that for advance..
 
We've put together some Agni maintanance/tuning video's with the kind help of Anthony (http://www.ajovideo.co.uk).

http://www.jozztek.com/shop/content/category/2-technical-support-videos-agni-motor-reconditioning


Hope they prove useful!

Jozz
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Agni 95R overhaul help - noob here
Replies
4
Views
862
Njay
N
nutnspecial
Tesla 1899 everything is the light
Replies
16
Views
2,762
nutnspecial
nutnspecial
jonescg
Agni Motor Maintenance
Replies
4
Views
5,842
jateureka
jateureka
fechter
Glossary of EV terminology
Replies
0
Views
9,889
fechter
fechter
calinb
Corrosion Proofing a Crystalyte Motor for Rainy Weather
Replies
16
Views
3,609
spinningmagnets
spinningmagnets
Back
Top