Clyte 5304 front hub question

gwsaltspring

100 W
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
128
Location
Saltspring Island, B.C.
I'm curious as to how many people use the big Clyte on the front wheel?

Can someone point out the pros and cons of using a front vs rear 5304?

Greg
 
I've used both a front 5303 and a rear 5303.

The advantage of the front motor was mainly that the steering was very solid and comfortable; it tracked extremely smoothly and always felt confident. The bike with the rear motor, on the other hand, has somewhat twitchy steering, though it seems less of a problem as speed increases. It's most noticeable when attempting sharp turns, and makes me nervous. My rear-motor bike has all EV components on the rear, however, so the relative lack of weight in front could be partly responsible... but I'm pretty sure the main reason the FWD bike turns well is due to the heavy front wheel and the fact that that wheel is pulling the bike.

But the rear-motor bike has many advantages over the front one:

* I can use a suspension fork; very important since even at just 34 mph, bumps could be slightly painful with a rigid fork
* I can use front disc brakes (very good stopping power)
* Easy to remove the front wheel (no tools needed), good for transporting it. I can even fit my bike in the back seat of my car! (Racks make me nervous; too many tailgaters or worse)
* Usually don't need torque arms
* Less conspicuous
* Wiring is a little easier since a front fork rotates but the rear does not
* My rear motor is significantly quieter than the front motor, which I suspect is just because the rear of the frame is a much more solid mount than the front fork. My guess is the noise was caused by the fork vibrating and not directly by the motor, but I'm not sure.
 
Wouldn't put an x5 on the front without super-stout custom torque arms, else at some point the dropouts will be ripped open, the wires ripped out and spun 'round the axle, and the motor wheel halfway down the street in front of you.
To my knowledge, there is no sufficiently strong and well-fitting front torque arm available retail.

There's been a number of documented hubmotor drop-out failures here and on other forums -- even the 4xx series develops enough torque at over 1000 watts to shred the front dropouts.

With battery weight balanced 50/50, I've not had problems with the front tracking properly.

Have no fear, go rear! (hubmotor I meant... :oops: )
 
ElectricRider.com ships their motors with torque arms that seem strong to me, and I was using two of them when I had a front hub motor. No problems at 48V. But I broke a motor and destroyed a steel fork running without any torque arm.
 
ElectricRider.com ships their motors with torque arms that seem strong to me, and I was using two of them when I had a front hub motor.

I forget where exactly, but when deciding where to put my 5304, I read a number of user reports describing those electricrider torque arms as fragile and ill-fitting.
 
When deciding and purchasing the current upgrade for my bike I hadn't found this forum and made my decisions based on power requirements, range and my ability to do the install without making a career out of it. The hard part was choosing the 5304 though, not where to put it. The rear, despite its many potential advantages, was never seriously considered.

My reasoning, however flawed, was based on weight balance and what I perceived a tire capable of handling. It seemed the weight of the hub, 48 volts of SLA and me, at 220 lbs, was an awful lot to put over one wheel and tire. Plus, all that weight aft would have to effect handling.

As it turns out my dealer, a fellow in Vero Beach, FL, had everything drop shipped from the EV Depot Service Center in Kansas. The torque arm that came with the wheel looks pretty much unbreakable and since I've experienced some problems with spokes loosening I'm glad it's on the front and the weight is balanced a bit better.

For better or for worse EV Depot had some battery acquisition problems at the time of my order and it was shipped sans the batteries. This naturally did not make me happy and generated a nasty email and a phone call to my local dealer. The poor guy tried his best but in reality he could do little so in a peace keeping effort had a couple of quality tires shipped to me. Since the tires I had were twelve years old and crumbling a little on the sidewalls I accepted them with grace and put them on fairly quickly.

With the new tires, front hub and back batteries the bike did fine for a week or so and then started to handle a little funny even on the straightaways. It seems merely leaning it on the kickstand allowed the left saddlebag to drift a little lower than the right and simply shifting it back in place failed to balance it properly. Tossing the furnished Topeak rack and replacing it with wire baskets solved the problem. Balance is better and handling much improved.

I mention this only because I can imagine the weight of a rider, the hub motor, 40+ pounds of batteries and a little weight shifting over the rear wheel at 30 MPH could be a bit distracting to the rider. Especially on a vehicle basically designed to be pedaled and not powered by a powerful motor.

But, and this is a big but. I've had road rash and don't want any more. I've fallen at speed and don't want to do it again and I have no problem slowing down for most anything. A bike with less than the 40+ pounds of batteries wouldn't have the same issues and a lighter rider would make a big difference. For me though, even to do it again, I'd stick with the front wheel and try and balance the weight.

Good luck, it probably ain't that big a deal.
Mike
 
I chose a rear and because of the above reasons would never go front myself. Devin has a front and loves it but he has a $400 custom steel fork and 72v of nimh in back that need balancing and can live wthout front suspension -- not I when I'm comin down the mountain at 40mph.

I totally agree that a rear hub with a rear battery give you a light twitchy front. Guys who are road bikers may like a light front but I am a motorcyclist and like my front planted. I love the Tidalforce hub battery and have several to mod to go with my 5304. Or, mounting the pack forward of the seatpost greatly improves balance in my opinion but can be quite a project. Eventually all my packs will be forward. The batt pack on the rear also makes it very touchy to leave the bike on the side stand and it can be a real wrestling match to keep it up in sketchy walking up stairs, steep narrows etc.

The Tidalforce is my model of stability and userfriendlyness. Even with a rear pack the front hub keeps it balanced.

This Tidalforce has XT brakes, 30/42/52 chainwheels, 11-31 freehub, suspension seatpost, WTB ProGel seat, 2.5 Hookworms, 36v 15ah Lipo + 8.5ah nimh front hub and it commutes over a mountain. The Clyte will eventually be set up similarly but with Armadillo Hemispheres.
 

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Oh yeah, the fork was another disadvantage of the front hub motor. I needed a rigid steel fork that could fit 700C wheels, and to use the torque arm, I needed vertical dropouts. An extremely rare combination. I had to buy a $150 fork online created by a company no longer in business. Also the rim the motor came in was very wide; I needed a 700x50 tire, which is very rare. I managed to find and order one from an online retailer 2500 miles away, but it was too wide for the front brakes so I had to rely only on rear brakes, which is not safe.
 
I have to agree with mvadventure on this one as we pretty much have the same system (but I have a 5303). We're both big guys and if I were to go with a rear hub that would mean 220 lbs + 40 lbs of SLAs + almost 25 lbs of hub weight on the rear. Now that might be ok for some but I have an aluminum frame (and NO the front fork is NOT aluminum) so that would've been a major concern for me. Don't worry it's a sturdy brand new Trek so I doubt it'll fall apart.

Not sure about early electric rider torque arms but this one appears to be the Version 2 model (as shown in manual) and seems pretty damn sturdy. I keep an eye on the fork and was a part-time bike mechanic so I'm pretty picky about upkeep in general. Was also a crazy, shave my legs, road racing cyclist for several years and I have the scars and a permanently separated shoulder to remind what can happen when you hit the pavement at speed.

I guess the story is that if you put it up front you really need to have a good reason and watch it closely. There's a big difference between losing the front and the rear.
 
Thanks everyone for your replies.

Gives me good insight into what I was planning to do. (Rear 5304, 72V NiMH within the frame if ascetically possible)

It seems that figuring out a way to gracefully locate the batteries within the frame becomes the trick, especially if I want it to be quick release.

I have a pretty lightweight rear rack which is OK with just the batteries on it. (36V NiMH) but if I load it up with groceries it wiggles all over.

I've been looking into trailers for the bigger loads, like groceries or a couple of kayaks and may just forgo the panniers.

Greg
 
Hey GW,
If you would like a few more ideas for a frame mount with easy release you can take a look at my ride here. http://tinyurl.com/2f3n8f
 
I installed a 5304 in the front wheel of a new downhill bike,my thinking that the bike would be better balanced. This was true,it handled and steered very well. But of course one day on take-off the motor broke out of the dropout, winding the wires around the axle,but I was SO thankful this happened while I was stopped,not doing 40kph as I was a few moments before,I would have been severely injured.
Myself,I would never install a 5 series motor in a front wheel again,I can do things to improve handling with a rear motor,and safety is a first!
 
Yo All -- I don't know how many dozens of times this and all other ebike forums have admonished loudly that front mounted motors must have steel forks and or major torque arm sytems. This is another story like many others that preceeded all the admonishments.

Torque Arms Rule!!
 
I had forgotten all about this post. Interesting to see it rear its head again since I have now decided to go with a motorized trailer.

Cheers Greg
 
To the motorized trailer, I love my for zipping around the neighborhood to garage sales and its great with my wifes big huge soft sided cooler for trips to the grocery store, but a day in day out ride..... nope,,, too much bounce and hop and dang its wide!!!!!!!!!

bob in phx.
 
I use the Crystalyte 5303 front motor and think it handles just fine. If you enable regeneration you need to get an aftermarket torque arm but otherwise the supplied arm works OK - it does fit a little loose. I have four BB 12-12T2 SLA's in a Topeak rack bag and that is a bit top heavy. Mounting LiFePo4's in the frame or above the rear axle would be prefered (that's the next project). It's only an issue starting out or on the center stand. Once in motion it doesn't seem to matter.
 
Good points, I guess I will have to see.

My intended use is for riding to my office then disconnecting the trailer and switching out my wheels for a set with offroad tires and going for a trail ride with a buddy.

Then when it is time to head back to the farm swap the wheelset back and reattach the trailer.

Currently it is a 45 min pedal down the mountain to the office and 60 min back up. (1000 ft elevation gain once I get to town) I expect that the trailer will help on the way back up the mountain plus giving me the flexibility that I'm seeking to be able to ride the bike like a non E-bike.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it works out.

Cheers Greg
 
Windows Photo editor has a feature to shrink photo pixel #s. Mine usually work at 900x700 or so!
otherDoc
 
trappermike said:
This website says my photo is too big,over 512KB. My photo is 1.03 MB....I'm screwed,can't do it? GRRRRRRR :evil:


When you are viewing the picture at the bottom of the screen there is a tiny button called " close this window and open in edit.... CTRL+E ".. click it and under the EDIT option in MS-Paint resize to 50 and save again.. ! 8)
 
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5832

So... mods... removing posts so Al (Nimbuzz ) doesn't look like the d!ck he is? Suggesting that Trapper get a mac?
 
I think if you can somehow have your front forks invincible to pevent a 5304 breaking out and injuring you,that is a good set-up,because wieght balance IS excellent.
With my downhill forks trying to designing torque arms will not be easy......just no room.... :?
 
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