CRYSTALYTE 5404 HUB MOTOR - INCREDIBLE TORQUE!
- Thread starter LOWRACER
- Start date
NeilP
1 GW
I think it would be fine, as long as tolerances are tight enough, you could always use a bit of stud lock/bearing adhesive. There would be no side ways play with the snap rings.
In comparison to some of the reciprocating loads we have on keyed shafts in agricultural and industrial applications...the loads here are fairly low.
I would question the need for a 12.9 tensile bolt..but if that is what is to hand...then I would use it too. In saying that, with an M16 coarse thread the minimum O/D of the bolt is 14.7 mmt the root of the thread...and you have maybe an 8 or 9mm hole bored through for the cables...that only gives a 3mm or so wall thickness...so in that case...yes 12.9 seems reasonable
Lowracer...More Questions
What diameter do you bore out the stator to before putting in the keyway...30mm? I think 28mm probably just removes the splines?
What size bore is down the axle for the wires? 10mm?
What type of insulation is that new wire and what gauge..it looks like heavy audio cable
In comparison to some of the reciprocating loads we have on keyed shafts in agricultural and industrial applications...the loads here are fairly low.
I would question the need for a 12.9 tensile bolt..but if that is what is to hand...then I would use it too. In saying that, with an M16 coarse thread the minimum O/D of the bolt is 14.7 mmt the root of the thread...and you have maybe an 8 or 9mm hole bored through for the cables...that only gives a 3mm or so wall thickness...so in that case...yes 12.9 seems reasonable
Lowracer...More Questions
What diameter do you bore out the stator to before putting in the keyway...30mm? I think 28mm probably just removes the splines?
What size bore is down the axle for the wires? 10mm?
What type of insulation is that new wire and what gauge..it looks like heavy audio cable
But what you are saying is the keyway is what holds the stator to the axle and stops the stator from spining?
I would be more inclined to make something stronger. A couple hard throttle hits then regen braking hits and that keyway will loosen. For instance with my X5304 it works it self back and forth in the rear dropouts and I have to be constantly tightening them. Ask around I have one of the toughest dropout setups on here. Chain tensioners with 3x thick steal with a grade 10 pinch bolt!!!
I use hard regen and very hi current limits at 100 volts so I want to see how this goes.
I would be more inclined to make something stronger. A couple hard throttle hits then regen braking hits and that keyway will loosen. For instance with my X5304 it works it self back and forth in the rear dropouts and I have to be constantly tightening them. Ask around I have one of the toughest dropout setups on here. Chain tensioners with 3x thick steal with a grade 10 pinch bolt!!!
I use hard regen and very hi current limits at 100 volts so I want to see how this goes.
NeilP
1 GW
Yes, I understand what you are saying and your concern.
The original axle is fixed to the shaft via splines...and maybe adhesive...it sits against a sholder one side...and nothing the other...well not exactly nothing...it butts up against the bearing...which itself is in the cover...so it cant go any where.
I do not see that a tight keyway...key being the width of the stator 14mm...and a 8mm deep key...4mmin stator...4mm in axle, is any more likely to move than the splined fixing.
Am sure Lowracer will put us straight when he comes on line
The original axle is fixed to the shaft via splines...and maybe adhesive...it sits against a sholder one side...and nothing the other...well not exactly nothing...it butts up against the bearing...which itself is in the cover...so it cant go any where.
I do not see that a tight keyway...key being the width of the stator 14mm...and a 8mm deep key...4mmin stator...4mm in axle, is any more likely to move than the splined fixing.
Am sure Lowracer will put us straight when he comes on line
Hyena
10 GW
How have you made your regen stronger than the next guy ? Something other than in the software ?Arlo1 said:
It's probably because of your super strong drop outs that you're having issues with the axle - instead of the stresses being on the drop outs you've moved them further back up the "chain".
NeilP
1 GW
I do not think Arlo is having problesm with the axle..I think it is jsut he is worried that at keyed stator on the axle is not as strong as the factory splined fit.
Hillhater
100 TW
NeilP said:
Ideally, for reversing power transmission, the keyway should be supplemented with some form of friction clamp...Taperlock, or pinch bolt, ...to prevent the inevitable fretting in the keyway.
LOWRACER
100 W
OK, new axle works again...
The middle part of the stator is tough steel!
I couldn't fix it into my milling machine.
So I have to work in my bench vise...
I decided to show you the pictures...
The ball bearings are the position of the yellow tape.
The snap ring is marked with the RED cable!
The middle part of the stator is tough steel!
I couldn't fix it into my milling machine.
So I have to work in my bench vise...
I decided to show you the pictures...
The ball bearings are the position of the yellow tape.
The snap ring is marked with the RED cable!
Attachments
John in CR
100 TW
Lowracer,
What is the yellow tape around the perimeter of the stator for? Just to protect it while you work on the motor?
What is the yellow tape around the perimeter of the stator for? Just to protect it while you work on the motor?
LOWRACER
100 W
John in CR said:
Exact! "X5404.COIL.PROTECTION.JPG"
Before you do any work with the stator, protect the coils!!!
docnjoj
1 GW
I dunno, I'm a doctor not an engineer, but it seems to me that having a really large bearing and torque arm attached to the central bearing area like Heinzmann does is really the way to go for high power motors. After looking at Lowracer's superb machining and efforts I wonder why you folks dont just put a big central bearing in these motors. I know, the stator will have to be redesigned to accept it but there is so much engineering "work around" going on that SOMEBODY should just bite the bullit and build it! Sorry for the rant!
otherDoc
otherDoc
John in CR
100 TW
Lowracer,
Even your protection looks nice and neat.
Doc,
All you have to do is mod the cover to accept the bigger bearing, no stator mod needed. Then through the larger center you add whatever torque holding attachments you like after securing it to the axle. Here's what I did to a little geared hub, not for torque arm purposes though. It was to pass big phase wires through and air intake holes. That bearing on the right big enough for you?
Even your protection looks nice and neat.
Doc,
All you have to do is mod the cover to accept the bigger bearing, no stator mod needed. Then through the larger center you add whatever torque holding attachments you like after securing it to the axle. Here's what I did to a little geared hub, not for torque arm purposes though. It was to pass big phase wires through and air intake holes. That bearing on the right big enough for you?
Hillhater
100 TW
that keyway does not look pretty ?? :?
docnjoj
1 GW
Yowser John! That is a big bearing. Why did you not consider having the torque arm come out of that central part of the hub?
otherDoc
otherDoc
Yeh thats it although im not saying your keyway is better or worse i think a taperlock or something would be better. I know the factory splines were nothing great. But a keyway will eventualy work back and forth from accel-deccel hits and as it works loose it will get worse at an acelerated rate.NeilP said:
John in CR
100 TW
docnjoj said:
No enough torque. The axle would give before the clamps I'd put on it.
I'm sure Lowracer with do something secure his axle quite well. You're right though, and we should begin seeing better stuff coming out of the manufacturers, especially as some of the motorcycle companies begin to realize the benefits of hubmotors and develop things like high powered geared hubbies with real planetary gears and real cooling which don't weigh much more than current wheels+ sprockets+brakes etc.
LOWRACER
100 W
TO MUCH TORQUE! TO MUCH SPEED! TO MUCH POWER!
[youtube]chXbpHoLW74[/youtube]
[youtube]chXbpHoLW74[/youtube]
MadRhino
100 GW
Bravo!!! 
We'll see it on the road pretty soon.
We'll see it on the road pretty soon.
wojtek
100 kW
Great job my dear neighbour!
LOWRACER
100 W
SICK MACHINE!
[youtube]kp4rd6Lch48[/youtube]
[youtube]kp4rd6Lch48[/youtube]
MadRhino
100 GW
That is the climber of my dreams! 
Can't wait to have one here.
Can't wait to have one here.
LOWRACER said:Doctorbass said:Excellent!!!!
Lowracer.. You rock !!
so that motor fit in the standard 135mm width?
How it can be lighter than the old 5300 since it have more copper, steel and aluminum !!!
Doc
The heaviest part at the hub motor is definitve the rotor with magnets, it's complete steel!
That's good, because I've seen much motors where the spokes are frayed away. 8)
No, not exactly 135mm, exactly 150mm width!
BUT, I must admit that in a 5hours test run one of the china hall sensors is broken!
I've got figured out, that the hall sensors, the ball bearings and the axle are cheap china trash!
Now I change the 3 sensors against HONEYWELL SS40,
and I change the ball bearings against SKF 6004-2RS / SKF 6005-2RS,
and I change the axle against a new selfmade 12.9 STEEL AXLE with build-in torque support!
info please, the motor (150mm) can fit in the mtb bike standard 135mm without modification?
thanks
wojtek
100 kW
i wish i could smell the burning tyre while watching the video!
Chris, any plans to eliminate the heating issue on this hub motor?
Chris, any plans to eliminate the heating issue on this hub motor?
LOWRACER
100 W
esoria said:LOWRACER said:Doctorbass said:Excellent!!!!
Lowracer.. You rock !!
so that motor fit in the standard 135mm width?
How it can be lighter than the old 5300 since it have more copper, steel and aluminum !!!
Doc
The heaviest part at the hub motor is definitve the rotor with magnets, it's complete steel!
That's good, because I've seen much motors where the spokes are frayed away. 8)
No, not exactly 135mm, exactly 150mm width!
BUT, I must admit that in a 5hours test run one of the china hall sensors is broken!
I've got figured out, that the hall sensors, the ball bearings and the axle are cheap china trash!
Now I change the 3 sensors against HONEYWELL SS40,
and I change the ball bearings against SKF 6004-2RS / SKF 6005-2RS,
and I change the axle against a new selfmade 12.9 STEEL AXLE with build-in torque support!
info please, the motor (150mm) can fit in the mtb bike standard 135mm without modification?
thanks
Which material is your mountain-bike tubing?
Steel, here's no problem!
Aluminum, here's a little problem, you must test it!
Carbon, here's a big problem, forget it!
LOWRACER
100 W
wojtek said:i wish i could smell the burning tyre while watching the video!
Chris, any plans to eliminate the heating issue on this hub motor?
Here you don't need plans, you only need some holes in the cover plates.
Ok, for me it's easy because the motor running nearly in a dry housing.
I've got a mounting for a little 12V turbo-fan.
With the turbo-fan I got forced air to kill the remaining heat inside the motor.
Here some pictures...
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