Custom Build... 2 Speed H.O.B.O Powered e-Cruiser

[fizzit]

The shifter boxes are beautiful and I'm sure very reliable! I think theres also something to be said for shifting through the deraillure for those of us without the skills/money to get a shifter box! After all, the derailleur has up to nine gears and bikes come with their own built in bracket for one.

 

[dingoEsride]

Off for an afternoon riiiiide...

KiM

Good stuff thats how it should be, less tinkering and more riding, enjoy

 

[gwhy!1]

The shifter boxes are beautiful and I'm sure very reliable! I think theres also something to be said for shifting through the deraillure for those of us without the skills/money to get a shifter box! After all, the derailleur has up to nine gears and bikes come with their own built in bracket for one.

The trouble with higher power setups and using a gear cluster of a nine speed is the ratios are far to close together. 2 speeds are all thats needed for normal stuff but if you want to go silly speeds 50mph+ then 3 speed would be even better, well this is what I have found with the stuff I have been playing with.

 

[Danny Mayes]

The trouble with higher power setups and using a gear cluster of a nine speed is the ratios are far to close together. 2 speeds are all thats needed for normal stuff but if you want to go silly speeds 50mph+ then 3 speed would be even better, well this is what I have found with the stuff I have been playing with.

I agree gwhy.

AJ and i were talking about this last night, specifically, where would the 3rd gear go. If you just popped it on top of the two AJ already has you could probably do 110kmph. I wouldn't be going that fast very often, if ever but then again i might if i could... I guess it depends how stable the bike is at those speeds. Or would you aim for a top speed and make the ratios closer? I guess maby somewhere in between... I guess if the bike and rider are on the heavy side, a 3rd gear with all the ratios closer would really serve...

Mr Thud designed a 3 speed i wonder what his intention for it is.... Thud??

D

 

[Thud]

Hey Guys,
I have played with several ratio combos & for general use, I find the 2-speed is perfect for general riding around with the 86% increase in ratio this lets you gear for your therocical top speed & almost 1/2's the speed for launching. A Bail-out gear so to speak

I did play with the ratios for my death race tranny & had a much closer ratio. That didn't really work as imagined as the broad tourque delivery really negated the need for shifting once rolling, so in reality the original lower 1st gear would have been better for the motors & controllers getting off the line.

The guys who have given feed back all mention the increadable rush when they move to 2nd gear.
we could add a softer middle gear that would be even easyer on the motor, then boost the top gear.
On my parking lot test track I am finding the issue is diminishing gains from added complexity.

I think a 3 speed still may have some benifit on the race track. a Low gear to get the ation started then a wide spaced 2nd gear that should be optomised to get the motor loaded to about 130% of your fastest cornering speed for a particulat track(this would let you have your max "pull" exiting corners) then the over drive to to max potential speeds on the long straits. when your running on the razors edge of thermal overload gearing definatly will help.

For lazy rides through the country side a 2 speed is proving KISS design rules the day.
the other option is just bolt on an agni & don't bother with a tranny.

 

[Danny Mayes]

For lazy rides through the country side a 2 speed is proving KISS design rules the day.

Lol, thats AJ to a tea, and me for that matter.

Thanks Thud for the input. Kinda confirms my thinking. For the riding i will be doing, 2 gears is perfecto...

the broad tourque delivery

we could add a softer middle gear that would be even easyer on the motor, then boost the top gear.

I think that is what is so thrilling about clicking into second and wrapping the throttle. the broad torque delivery and optimised gearing in second really allows you to convert the motors power to bike velocity, having it softer i think would detract....

i am talking about flying through the Perth hill streets of course and not the race track... I would still love to see a 3 speed in action of course...

 

[Whiplash]

I agree, the nine speed cluster is too many really, I use it and I find myself double clicking each shift now that I have the electronics mostly figured out. I personally would like a 4 speed, 1 granny gear for less than 10MPH top speed rediculous climbing power, and three wide ratios for the street up to about 40ish cruising...

 

[Danny Mayes]

you got a link to your build Wiplash?

D

 

[recumpence]

I am starting to appreciate two speeds as the ideal, too. Even Tesla only went with two speeds on their roadster.......

I have stuck with single speed for a long time, now and I must say, with the kind of power I have (9+kw) it seems fine geared for 40mph top speed. However, with any less power, there is a lag when geared so high. The setups I have built, when geared for 30mph, are extremely hard accelerating with only 1 ratio. If you want higher top speed, and still have it pull your arms out of their sockets, a two speed is really a good idea.

Matt

 

[Danny Mayes]

Hehehe, enough said.

The master has spoken

Sorry for the extra cheese but it's true

 

[olaf-lampe]

I wonder, if the people feeling a kick in the a** when they shift in second, do shift to late?
IMHO they'd better shift at 50% of max RPM or a little later. That's where the torque curve begins to decrease.
Correct me, if I'm wrong. :lol:
-Olaf

 

[etard]

I can second the two speed thoughts here. Thud's box has worked flawlessly and I hope we see more builds that take advantage of this source. Enevitably, the Thud 2 speed will save you money in the long run by saving the other components in your drive system, namely the controller. It's a wise investment and a bulletproof design. When I get the motor back from Thud I think I will set the bike up to go a tad faster on the streets, looking for 45-50 mph, I also want to stretch first gear into 20 + mph, so I'll be taking a tooth off the rear sprocket. As geared by Thud it was perfect as a racebike on kart tracks, but for cruising I want the ability to keep up with traffic around town.

I'll also agree with AJ on the sensorless controllers, I have a tiny HV110 and this thing has fried motors and drives my hub motor with ease. It's quite amazing to be able to tuck the controller into an underseat pack and zip around at 30 mph with this "toy" controller. I will say that it definately is a pedal first powering a hub motor, but on my RC drive Death Race bike it required no effort to start from zero. And the only reason it blew the Hacker RC motor was because I had that bike terribly undergeared.

 

[recumpence]

Hehehe, enough said.

The master has spoken

Sorry for the extra cheese but it's true

I have never really been against two speed trannys. I have been outspoken about driving through the stock derailer, though.

My argument has always been, why spend more money on a tranny, when you can just put that extra money into a larger motor? However, if you already have a big motor and still want more power, go with a two speed.

Anyway, I have never wanted to step on Thud's toes by building a two speed. But, maybe he and I can get together on something. :wink:

I am glad the two speed is working so well for Kim. I love his bike. I think it is up there with the best 5 bikes in the world.

Matt

 

[flyinmonkie]

Thud's 2 speed is pure genius and a great way to get a set up that splits the drives at the rear wheel with 2 freewheels. For those of us with out the skills to build it, or the money to get one made up, the dérailleur is still an option. The great thing about a cassette hub, is you can select any sort of ratios between gears you want by just reconfiguring the cassettes to the sprockets you want. My rear hub has 3 standard bike sprockets for the motor to drive through and a splined eno for the pedals. I can easily change the ratios for the motor by just changing the sprockets. Just limit the dérailleur travel to keep it from throwing the chain.

I prefer 3 speeds with a really low gear for starting. That keeps the load on the controller and motor down. Very quickly after getting rolling I go to second and use second and third for cruising. First is only really for starting from a dead stop, putting around real slow, or getting up a very steep hill. I think if you went for a 3rd gear Thud, maybe it would be lower to make starting even easier on the controller. Of course thei could lead to results like Luke's hill climb bike. hehe

Hope you had a good ride Kim. Looking forward to the video.

Clay

 

[Danny Mayes]

I have never really been against two speed trannys. I have been outspoken about driving through the stock derailer, though.

I know. I agree.

My argument has always been, why spend more money on a tranny, when you can just put that extra money into a larger motor?

Totally valid and i think is a good argument I think your set ups are unique with Astro and CC and what i am saying applies more to the turnighy motors.

Anyway, I have never wanted to step on Thud's toes by building a two speed. But, maybe he and I can get together on something. :wink:

That will be exciting and revolutionary, no doubt!

I am glad the two speed is working so well for Kim. I love his bike. I think it is up there with the best 5 bikes in the world.

Matt

I agree. It is one of the finest.

The PK ripper is one of my all time favorites too

 

[spinningmagnets]

Anyway, I have never wanted to step on Thud's toes by building a two speed

C'mon Matt...don't you need another project to give you something to do with all this spare time you have?...Thud won't mind!

 

[Miles]

My argument has always been, why spend more money on a tranny, when you can just put that extra money into a larger motor?

Indeed. You have to balance the cost and weight of the gearbox against that of a correspondingly higher torque motor. With the larger motor, you don't have to reduce speed to gain torque....

If you are power limited, for whatever reason, then a multi-speed gearbox is the way to go...

I should have something to show in the way of 2 speed gearboxes, by the end of the year. I've been obsessed with their design for long enough.... time to build.......

 

[damcard]

Kim, I'm genuinely surprised nobody else has downloaded Thuds
FREEplans

I would like to check them out but haven't found them. Where are they? -Damcard

 

[Jehu]

Try this
pdf about 5 posts from bottom of page 8)


http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=14818&start=90


Thud oferd to make a few a few days ago, not shure if it's still on

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=29411&p=424847&hilit=Thud+speed#p424847

Kim, I'm genuinely surprised nobody else has downloaded Thuds
FREEplans

I would like to check them out but haven't found them. Where are they? -Damcard

 

[AussieJester]

You have to balance the cost and weight of the gearbox against that of a correspondingly higher torque motor.

And still its 27kilo lighter than an X5... Couldn't resist.... continue on...

Seriously...oh wait, i was being.... ok ok...so, Thud meeets Recumpence now thats a deal i would like to see happen!

KiM

 

[Miles]

IMHO they'd better shift at 50% of max RPM or a little later. That's where the torque curve begins to decrease.
Correct me, if I'm wrong. :lol:
-Olaf

Well.............. It's where the power curve starts to fall...

 

[AussieJester]

Well....i had to search further back than Deecanios worklog to find this thread :-| definately time for some form
of update HAHA..

So i have been using the newly released RC compatible Cycle Analyst from ebikes.ca...some
may have followed Justins thread regarding this unit? aaaaaanywayz, after much trial and error
Rodgah telling me what to change over MSN Messenger then me testing it we came up with a suitable
setup that i think is at least on par with any other throttle interface i have used with the rc ESCs

I upped my settings in Justins thread but until now i hadn't shot video so only the few that have ridden
the bike since the CA has been fitted and myself, really new how well it performed...This
video i shot today, i attempted to show flat ground dead stop starts, hill starts and slow
ridding up hill, I have the current limited to 130amps on the CA and it cuts it off dead on 130amps unlike
the CC HV160 allowing 100amp spikes above the set current limit on the esc :-S

[youtube]wYyq6XE2hdw[/youtube]
Top speed was 73km/hr (gps certified) with a max of 130amps batteries were a lil down at 48v she
has alot more poke at 50v Data logging recorded max votqage spike of 1.87v think i have finally got this beat!

Anyone thats watched any of my previous videos will be familar with the route i take in these vids
gives a good comparison IMO between the performance of this current based throttle and previous
votage based throttles... The CA is now a permant fixture on the bike, BIG thankyou
to Justin for making these units avaialble so quickly and Rodgah
for the patience to help me set it up, not like the CUB (Cashed Up Bogan), had anything better
to do anywayz :lol: This rc_CA is definitely the best option
for an RC throttle interface for on road riding, IMO... I'm not sure how it would fair
off road on bumpy terrain, hopefully it wont be too long before we see some reports
of how they go off the tarmac

KiM

EDIT...Windows Movie maker seems to have tacked on the "edited" version after the uncut version soz ...

 

[gwhy!1]

Thanks for the update KiM,
Now that looks like a Very Very usable and capable bike... I think its nailed Mate.... Like you say it will be good to see how well these units perform for offroad technical riding.

 

[Ypedal]

Running good man !!.. 8)

*a lot of tall skinny people in australia, or the camera is playing tricks lol.

 

[liveforphysics]

Looks fantastic KiM! I love the shifting. Jealous of the shifting... Now thinking about how I can shift.... Though it would be hard to justify the need when I can flip over in a wheelie and go >100mph with a single speed... But I still love the shifting sound and concept so darn much!


Really makes me happy to see the bike all working well and it seems like it's something you can take out and rip around with and get into town to run errands and things. That's so cool my friend.

Great work!