Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

[majornelson]

I need another Q100 kit. Last one I bought was from GreenBikeKit...

Is this the latest Q100?

http://www.greenbikekit.com/electric-bike-kit-1/rear/36v250w-gbk100r-electric-bike-kit.html

Also, any comments regarding using this motor on the front or rear? My MAC motors are all on the rear but the current Q100 is on the front. 7 speed Townie is the donor bike so it should work with either.

Finally, any recommendations on where to buy the various white connectors that the CON61/62 controllers use? I'm trying to diagnose which part has failed on one of my bikes (not a Q100, an AmpedBike kit I bought years ago).

Many thanks!

Lee

 

[motomech]

GBK sure could redo their dsecriptions, they are very obtuse.
I beleive the kit you linked is the higher-power capable "H" model rear mount that requires the purchaseof a free wheel(which is not the way to go w/ a Q100).
If I read you correctly, you are looking for a low-powered build and you should stay w/ a frt. mount motor like your other bike. It would allow the use of the "260" speed motor which is best for 36 Volts and 26" Wheels.

Either way, I would recommend the 810 meter which is non-intrusive and useful.
A more modern controller would be the SO6S/S-LCD sine wave that BMS Battery sells. It is feature packed and offers 5-level TORQUE controll. But it requires careful installation and programing.

 

[motomech]

Personaly, I replace those white "scooter" electrical connectors with better ones, but if you want to stay with those, you can find them here;
http://www.electricscooterparts.com/whitewiringconnectors.html

 

[majornelson]

Motomech,

Thanks! I agree, the front wheel option is better. Any idea which part (kit) is the 260 rpm for the front? Just checked and GBK only lists the 201 and 328 rpm motors. I had planned to order the 201 rpm one.

I'm looking for a quick ship and it's been some time since I ordered a kit. Any comments on whether BMSBattery or GBK is most reliable. (My first order in 2013 was delayed by a typhoon or something!).

Again, thanks!

Lee

 

[majornelson]

One more general question, has anyone ordered the LCD display with a Q100 from GBK? I couldn't find any pictures of it.

This build is for my wife's Townie and she likes it clean!

Lee

 

[chas58]

I like it clean too, so I don’t use the LCD. I just have a throttle (PAS would work too).
I seems bought extra connectors with my order through GBK. Like motomech said, almost anything would be better than those connectors that come standard.

That 201rpm motor is good for about 16mph on 36v, so keep that in mind. Matching the speed of your motor to the speed you want the bike to go is pretty important. 260 is the sweet spot as it is around 20mph (alternatively you can run a 201 at 48volts for 20mph). Anything over 20mph is going to be iffy for most people with a Q100.

 

[majornelson]

Chas58,

Thanks. It's my wife's Townie that she rides at the beach in Delaware (she is fit but has bad knees) and she's a pretty casual rider. I mean, the bike has a basket...

She likes it clean too so I just ordered the base controller. Unfortunately, the only options I saw at GBK were 201 and 328 rpm, so I ordered the 201 rpm as she needs the torque for the small rises around Rehoboth Beach. I agree that the 260 is ideal.

GBK said they had the kit and would ship tomorrow. Shipping was 3 - 7 days but I seem to remember that it has to transit out of China first which adds to the shipping time. We'll see... Time is critical as we are already in mid-summer!

Thanks again for this thread!

Lee

 

[motomech]

My option is, if PAS is to be used, some sort of speed selector is necessary.
The 810 is easy to hide, like under the seat. Not as useful to change speeds, but can be done.
3-speed selsction is fine on 36 volts.
For throttle only(tiring for me), no display needed.

 

[majornelson]

Agreed. If the bike were for me, I'd opt for the LED or maybe even the LCD display. I have them in one form or another on my other bikes.

But we're talking about wives here, not me.

I went with throttle only as she's comfortable with that. Her main complaint is that we can't use the "pretty blue wheel" (I.e. front rim) with the Q100, that comes standard on the light blue Townie.

Sigh...

 

[motomech]

I hear ya, w/ my Ex, a good day was a day without a crash.

 

[ScooterMan101]

Your local bike shop can get you another blue rim / wheel, then have them build up the hub motor into the blue rim, you will be left with a hub and some spokes, but from what you write, she will like her bike much better, with a matching rim,
Just be sure to order the hub motor with the same spoke holes as the rim, most 26 inch rims on basic bikes have 32 holes, best to check with the local bike shop ( LBS ) to be sure. You will want to order spokes that are 13 gauge at the hub , tapered to 14 gauge at the rim, that way you can use standard nipples.

Agreed. If the bike were for me, I'd opt for the LED or maybe even the LCD display. I have them in one form or another on my other bikes.

But we're talking about wives here, not me.

I went with throttle only as she's comfortable with that. Her main complaint is that we can't use the "pretty blue wheel" (I.e. front rim) with the Q100, that comes standard on the light blue Townie.

Sigh...

 

[chas58]

Is it too late to change your order?

For the wheel, the shipping of an inexpensive wheel from china is exorbitant. I think shipping alone is over $50 more than just a bare motor. So for a bike like your wife’s (or mine which has deep V wheels) I like to ship a bare motor over and have a matching wheel built locally. ScooterMan gave good details for that.

What throttle did you get? I’ve tried the three types and like the half twist. The full twist is actually a little unsafe, because if things get shaky, you aren’t going to let go of the grip, but can much easier to loosen your thumb around the half twist. Thumb throttle isn’t bad for shorter distances, but ergonomically not as good as the half twist. In the end, I just cut 1/2 of my twist throttle off to make it a half twist throttle.

The torque isn’t much different with the different RPM motors. The biggest difference is how slow you can go before the motor overheats vs top speed. Full throttle at slower speeds will burn out a higher RPM motor faster. If she is happy at 15-16mph top speed, the 201 is fine.

I’m an engineer, so I’m all about function. But my wife teaches me a different perspective. Color coordination is key! She even had me track down some blue 26” tires to make her bike color coordinated (colored tires are plentiful with 700c wheels, but hard to find in 26” rubber for some reason).

Agreed. If the bike were for me, I'd opt for the LED or maybe even the LCD display. I have them in one form or another on my other bikes.

But we're talking about wives here, not me.

I went with throttle only as she's comfortable with that. Her main complaint is that we can't use the "pretty blue wheel" (I.e. front rim) with the Q100, that comes standard on the light blue Townie.

Sigh...

 

[motomech]

I agree with the half throttle choice.
My current set up of a left-hand, half throttle and PAS has allowed me the lose the cruise control, something I never liked that much anyhow.
Hand gets tired-pedal. Legs get tired-hold throttle.

 

[majornelson]

Guys,

Thanks for all of the posts and insight. I'm going to check if I can get matching rims. The original Townie rims are 24 spoke wheels (I think) so no go for a hub motor I've seen some online in blue. (Need to check if the Q100 uses 32 or 36 spokes.)

Too late to change he order but she likes the thumb throttle and I spent time painting the rear rack and battery to match her front white basket. Got major props for that!

Funny thing, we had four couples down this weekend to our beach house in Rehoboth, DE. I have both a Trek hybrid and a man's Townie with MAC motors. More than anything else, the guys loved the electric bikes. We have a scooter too but the bikes were the favorite. They were like, "these ar so cool, why don't more people use them..."

The things we take for granted at Endless-Sphere just aren't that well known...

Again, thanks for all of the insight and comments.

Lee

 

[majornelson]

Quick question for the Q100 pros... I've posted this in the following thread (https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84433&p=1239719#p1239719) and have some decent suggestions but not an answer to one question, so hitting thread where I know we're all Q100 fans!

My rear forks are 120mm and I'm planning on using the existing six speed freewheel which I think has a smaller width. Can I safely reduce the spacer on the freewheel side of the Q100? I think I'd try to reduce it by 5mm for a total of 125mm rear hub. I can hand stretch the difference...

I'd either cut the spacer or look for a new one that is smaller at the hardware store. Last resort, use washers...

Thoughts?

Lee

 

[chas58]

Quick question for the Q100 pros... I've posted this in the following thread (https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84433&p=1239719#p1239719) and have some decent suggestions but not an answer to one question, so hitting thread where I know we're all Q100 fans!

My rear forks are 120mm and I'm planning on using the existing six speed freewheel which I think has a smaller width. Can I safely reduce the spacer on the freewheel side of the Q100? I think I'd try to reduce it by 5mm for a total of 125mm rear hub. I can hand stretch the difference...

I'd either cut the spacer or look for a new one that is smaller at the hardware store. Last resort, use washers...

Thoughts?

Lee

Sure, that will work fine.

My road bike (in the first post here) is a single speed with 120mm rear spacing. The Q100 is designed as a 120mm single speed motor per the engineering drawings.
There are two "spacers" to get the motor to fit snugly in a 135mm drop out. I took one spacer out and replaced it with a plastic bushing of the same ID/OD from a hardware store. That one was easy to cut to size. The spacer's only function is to widen the motor to 135mm, so it doesn't take any particular stress - just the compression from the rear axle nuts.

 

[majornelson]

chas58,

Thanks. I did find a nylon spacer that fit but ended up using a 7 speed freewheel and existing spacers. I spread the rear forks to 130mm using Sheldon Brown's method and then measured (again per his method) to ensure that the forks were spread evenly. When I installed the rear wheel with the Q100 and 7 speed, it was off center so I took the bike today to my LBS. They'll re-dish it for me.

All in all a fun project. I'll post pictures on the other thread once it's completed.

As an aside, the bike shop actually had three different electric bikes. This is a local, one store location that is family owned (in Bethesda, MD). They had an Electra Townie and two different versions of the Trek electric (mountain bike and city bike). All used the mid-drive system (Trek= shimano and Townie= bosch, I believe).

I think that the world is catching up with us (thought they were all around $3k).

Lee

 

[lowellbert]

chas58,

you seem to be the guru of fitting a rear hub motor in 120mm dropout.

I would like to do the same for my singles speed, but would like to get a motor with a bit more power then the Q100.
700c wheel, Chrome frame.

Do you think this modification of remove the "adapter" nut from the axle would work here?

http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2011-1G-KSU5.3DNYT

I have tried asking a few different online sellers if this piece can be removed, but they all say it is fixed.

Thanks in advance.

 

[chas58]

Yes, according to the photograph and the diagrams, that will work fine. That motor in the pictures is just like a Q100. On the left of the picture, I can see a little black spacer just inboard from the silver nut . There's actually two of them in there and you can remove one and replace it by something of the appropriate size to fit 120 mm motor

 

[chas58]

On second thought...

That motor is 145mm, which is huge.

The spacer is 17mm, and the nut is 3mm, for 20mm savings. But, you may need some room for the free wheel. I would guess you can reduce the width 15-20mm max. Maybe 15mm, maybe more. If you have a steel frame, it might work. But either way you'll have to bend the frame a bit.

 

[motomech]

All versions of the Q128 listed @ BMS Battery are 135 mm drop-out motors.
I don't know if ELB needs to up-date their product page or they are selling New Old Stock.
The 145 mm motor was also considered to be an under-performer, so unless ELB can clarify what motor it actually is, I would avoid it.

 

[majornelson]

Quick question on my build regarding P parameters on the LCD-5 display. I think that I have everything configured correctly except for P1.

Any thoughts?

For reference-

For the manual, I found a link on bmsbattery.com for both the lcd-5 and lcd-3 display.

It looks like the lcd-5 (which I have) does not have the "c" parameters, only the "p" parameters. The link is here: https://bmsbattery.com/index.php?contro ... tachment=5

I am using a 52v battery and a Q100 along with the CON63 sine wave controller from greenbikekit.com.

I entered the following parameters... can anyone comment if they are correct?

P1 = 87 (P1 = motor gear reduction ratio× number of rotor magnet pieces). I have no idea what this is but this was the default.
P2 = 1 (P2 = P2 is wheel speed pulse signal setting mode per revolution). Looks like this controls the speedometer. I'm guessing since I only have one magnet on the spokes, it should be one.
P3 = 1 (power assist control mode). A "1" setting is "imitation torque control" mode vs. speed control (setting of 0). Assume this is what I want.
P4 = 0 (handlebar startup mode). A setting of "0" means that the throttle can override the PAS and the PAS does not need to be started to activate the throttle.
P5 = 0 (power monitoring mode). I guessed at this and have no clue as to what this does other than setting the battery indicator on the display to actually show the battery level.


Best,

Lee

 

[majornelson]

Also, I've noticed that even though I have maximum speed set to 72 km/h (45 mph), the PAS cuts out at about 19.5 mph when using Assist Level 5 (highest).

Not certain why...

 

[leelorr]

Have you modified the Con63 controller to work with the 52 (58 actual volts) battery?
The web page says that the Con63 controller works with 24 and 36 volts:
http://www.greenbikekit.com/250w-brushless-e-bike-controller-lcd-display.html

I am trying to figure out parts to make a (201 rpm@36 volt) Q100/Q128 motor work with a 48 or 52 volt battery (for 21 mph) and a sine wave controller, but the only controller I have come up with is the larger BMS Battery S12S sine wave controllers:
https://bmsbattery.com/46-sine-wave

Leelorr

 

[majornelson]

Have you modified the Con63 controller to work with the 52 (58 actual volts) battery?

No, I just used it as it came. The sine wave controller is very quiet. I really like it. The PAS is so-so. I guess nothing beats a real torque sensor...

I think the 52v +CON63+Q100 (201 rpm) is a nice setup if you're looking for something lightweight, speeds around 20 mph+ and relatively flat terrain i.e. rolling hills not mountains.

This build thread by chas58 shows what great bikes you can make.

I'm posting some before and after pics here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84433