E-Scooters vs E-bikes

[gwsaltspring]

Hey Maytag;

Do you have pictures of your rig some where here?

Greg

 

[maytag]

Hey Maytag;

Do you have pictures of your rig some where here?

Greg

It's a very lengthy thread but it covers the whole GT/Puma build from start to finish.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=541&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

[knoxie]

Hi Dave

Good to hear from you again, I worried maybe the throttle had stuck on you and it had taken you off to the mountains! :lol: glad the Puma is still running well for you! I doubt there are many other ebikes that would sit happy on that rack with their batteries in!

I have been playing around, my modified controller is still working well at 150V when I run it, my BMS failed at 72V but I have now upgraded them so they should be ok now. I still think the voltage you are running is a sensible limit for the Puma, any more than that and you start to push the reliability IMHO esp. as the summer kicks in, you may be able to up the voltage in the winter but I think the 1500W power level is a nice happy place for that motor in most conditions!!

Enjoy your biking!

Knoxie

 

[Lock]

Hey! ...you guys have hijacked this thread eh?

OK, I fall on the scoot side of this equation.

Your pedal vehicles suck eh?

There, take that, for interloping.



Lock

 

[fechter]

I rode my original Zappy (modified) for years until it tried to kill me. A shorted FET caused it to go full throttle unexpectedly, resulting in a painful injury.

After that, I decided that stand-up scooters were not for me. I'm getting too old and brittle.

It was pretty much the ultimate for portability, though. Easy to fold and throw in the trunk of my car. Possible to carry aboard mass transit. It weighed in at 43 lbs. with lead-acid batteries. Modern lithium batteries could lighten that up substantially.

Now I prefer something with a seat and adequate brakes.

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

I've been tinkering with escooters for a few years starting from currie standup to mini pocketbikes and on to full size vespa type scoots. Just recently I built my first ebike and I'm pretty sure ebikes are more efficient.

Yup! Just not as safe, as comfortable, as practical or as fun as the kick scoot w/power assist.

tks

Lock

I have to say that other than the 'yup', I disageee with everything after that!

You laid out your case that kick scooters are safer.
Since kick scooters don't ride in & amongst traffic (yes, some do some of the time) all that those statistics prove is that the sidewalk is a safer place to be than in the street. Or bombing down the side of a mountain for that matter, or rocky & twisty trails, all the while flying flat out mind you, pushing the limits is something else scoots don't do (I'm sure you have an exception to prove the rule). I don't see these mitigating factors among numerous others like them accounted for in the CPSC study.

More practical.
Just like better, it comes down to 'more practical for what?'
A blanket statement can not be made.
It depends upon the application it's being used for.

As for fun.
After about a half dozen kicks on a scoot I've had about all the fun I can handle. OTOH I've ridden bikes for six hour stretches at a time at a leisurely pace without a pit stop.
You say a scooter is more comfortable than a bike because your weight is placed on your feet.
You're trying to pass off that standing is more comfortable than sitting down.
That may be true for some people that have a medical condition but I'm pretty sure most people would prefer to sit.
Put it this way, I don't think I've ever in my life remained standing for six hours at a time without taking a break but sitting on a bike I can just keep going.
Besides, there's nothing stopping you from standing on the pedals (which I do to climb hills) if that's what you prefer.
It's an inherent part of a bike's design to alternate between sitting & standing so you have a flexibility open to you that's missing from a kick scooter.

Lastly I'd like to know what you mean by 'Victorian' pedal bike?
Do you refer to a penny-farthing or velocipede/hobby-horse which you've posted pictures of?
I ride a modern american bike which have improved somewhat since queen victoria (argument to ensue no doubt).
If centuries old technology is what you're comparing against to base your opinions upon you might want to try out more modern offerings.
If you "jam in your crotch and wiggle around on" then I'd have to say you're not employing proper technique riding a bike.
Efficient power transfer should have no side motion assosciated with cranking the pedals.
It wastes energy & quickly becomes tiring.

If it isn't clear by now, put me down on the ebike side of the ledger, hands down.

 

[Lowell]

Kick scooting is fun with my friends kids, but I'd rather roller blade than ride a kick scooter anywhere.

 

[Lock]

You laid out your case that kick scooters are safer.
Since kick scooters don't ride in & amongst traffic (yes, some do some of the time) all that those statistics prove is that the sidewalk is a safer place to be than in the street. Or bombing down the side of a mountain for that matter, or rocky & twisty trails, all the while flying flat out mind you, pushing the limits is something else scoots don't do (I'm sure you have an exception to prove the rule). I don't see these mitigating factors among numerous others like them accounted for in the CPSC study.

We are tapping about the same vehicle, right?

 

[Lock]

You're trying to pass off that standing is more comfortable than sitting down.
That may be true for some people that have a medical condition but I'm pretty sure most people would prefer to sit.
Put it this way, I don't think I've ever in my life remained standing for six hours at a time without taking a break but sitting on a bike I can just keep going.

I'm not sure that very many cyclists spend hours at a time on their bikes?
Most urban trips are quite a bit less time than this?
BTW, I see in the first quarter 2007 Wyeth sold over $26 million US of Preparation H... Up over 12% from the year previous

I stand because it is safer than having the vehicle stuck between the legs. Faster and easier to get on and off.

tks

Lock

 

[Lock]

Lastly I'd like to know what you mean by 'Victorian' pedal bike?
Do you refer to a penny-farthing or velocipede/hobby-horse which you've posted pictures of?
I ride a modern american bike which have improved somewhat since queen victoria (argument to ensue no doubt).

Only that things like the ergonomic seat, pneumatic tires, derailleur and folding bikes were all invented before 1900.

Yes, todays pedal bike has benefited from modern materials, but it is still a Victorian design.

tks

Lock

 

[Lowell]

You're trying to pass off that standing is more comfortable than sitting down.
That may be true for some people that have a medical condition but I'm pretty sure most people would prefer to sit.
Put it this way, I don't think I've ever in my life remained standing for six hours at a time without taking a break but sitting on a bike I can just keep going.

I'm not sure that very many cyclists spend hours at a time on their bikes?
Most urban trips are quite a bit less time than this?
BTW, I see in the first quarter 2007 Wyeth sold over $26 million US of Preparation H... Up over 12% from the year previous

I stand because it is safer than having the vehicle stuck between the legs. Faster and easier to get on and off.

tks

Lock

Can you elaborate on how standing is safer? For certain the higher CG has a negative impact on braking. Cornering? I'll be money on a bike over a kick scooter.

I am curious to learn though.

 

[fechter]

I know my ass gets sore if I spend more than half an hour sitting on my scooter. I would prefer to have a choice at times.

I think once you get above 15-20mph (about how fast a human can run) it's safer to go with a seat. Dismounting at 30mph is going to hurt. A standup scooter takes a different technique for hard cornering and braking, but once learned, I don't see a real disadvantage to it.

One problem I do remember is if you hit some really bad road and start bouncing, your feet tend to lose traction with the scooter platform. This can be bad in a corner.

 

[Lock]

Can you elaborate on how standing is safer? For certain the higher CG has a negative impact on braking. Cornering? I'll be money on a bike over a kick scooter.
I am curious to learn though.

Hi Lowell
Just my opinion of course! I used to (pedal) quite a bit - Halifax NS to Kingston ON in seven days... before I moved to the gas pedal (gawd help me.)
I have a pedal bike I love ("ten-speed" config, but only a one speed w/coaster brake) but I parked it years ago when I got the scoot.

So I have fallen off bikes a few times, and the scooter a few times as well...

Standing, my head/eyes are only slightly higher than folks sitting on pedal bikes, so I'm not sure the CG is significantly higher on the scoot.

I also keep the handlebars high so I don't rest any weight on them...

And I don't understand this, but the scoot front (caliper) brake seems to work *great*, such that this is all I ever use. The back band brake works, but even in a panic stop I am at the point where I don't even think to use it. The scoot seems to "dive" into the front brake, and I have *never* felt like I was close to going over the handlebars.

I think the fastest I have stopped was when I ran straight into a curb (grin) I ended up with the handlebar stem (is that the right word for the upright?) between my legs, but was still on my feet.

What I want to try now is to use two front brakes - regen and mechanical - and no back brake, because I want to try an inline skate blade instead of a wheel. I mean the biggest 110mm wheels w/the best bearings and rubber vibration mount. I scoot smooth pavements, and I don't "do" higher speeds or high speed turns!

Anywhooo, kick scoots are easier/quicker to get on/off than a pedal bike.

When I fall off the scoot, so far it's always been onto my feet, or hands and knees, maybe then a rollover onto my back too.

With the pedal bikes, I believe the vehicle tends to cause the (falling) rider to end up more on their torso/shoulders or head... it's harder to get the vehicle out from between the legs.

I will try and tap with some of the scandinavians folks that race kick scoots. I understand they can sprint to 40kph... Get their views on why they kick, and get back to you. I believe they got into it initially as summer training for their kicksleds:
http://www.kicksled.com/

tks

Lock

 

[xyster]

I will try and tap with some of the scandinavians folks that race kick scoots. I understand they can sprint to 40kph... Get their views on why they kick, and get back to you. I believe they got into it initially as summer training for their kicksleds:

Do you switch legs, or just kick with the dominant leg? Do you have one huge leg and gluteal, the other atrophied like a skinny noodle?

 

[Lock]

Do you switch legs, or just kick with the dominant leg? Do you have one huge leg and gluteal, the other atrophied like a skinny noodle?

hehe... Yah, you definitely switch legs! I did discover early on that I am left-footed! No idea how that works. I'm not a "south paw"...

tks

Lock

 

[Lock]

Lots of YouTube vids but here is one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttJkOJeCbSU

tks

Lock

 

[Lock]

I briefly considered the eToucan, but consider it too big, and underpowered:
http://www.belizebike.com/english/etoucan20.html

tks

L

 

[Lowell]

Will a scoot with decent rubber lock up the front wheel or flip when the front brake is applied hard?

 

[Lock]

Will a scoot with decent rubber lock up the front wheel or flip when the front brake is applied hard?

Probably! I've never tried
The scoots I'm used to carry their pba batts under the deck... so v.low to the ground. And pba so heavy too... (2x 12v 10ah, so what, about 17lbs?)I think this should be a help (reduce any tendency to flip) versus carrying higher up in panniers or back rack...

With 12.5" wheels, I am only used to crappy rubber... the last two tires cost me $4.50 each

These things are legal in California and Oregon, etc so there's lots of `em out there in use. I used to be on a board somewhere in Cali where the users were all riding gas and electric standup scoots, and I don't recall this being an issue (any more than a bike w/seat.)

L

 

[Lowell]

Actually those were two different outcomes.

a) lock up front wheel

b) flip over forwards

 

[iberkt]

I briefly considered the eToucan, but consider it too big, and underpowered:

The eToucan looks cool. I like how they mounted the batteries on the sides of the wheel.

It would be better with a Phoenix motor.

http://www.electricrider.com/crystalyte/index.htm

Even with the small 20" wheel it would get 27mph at 48 volts (36mph x .769 = 27.684)

 

[Lock]

What I want to try now is to use two front brakes - regen and mechanical - and no back brake, because I want to try an inline skate blade instead of a rear wheel.

The program Daily Planet on Discovery Channel had a piece tonight about a fellow that has worked out leaf (sort of) springs for the chassis(?) that holds the wheels and boots all together for inline skates... I was thinking rubber vibration mounts, but the response shown from folks trying out the sprung skates was pretty impressive (they seemed impressed.) Think the inventor is out west somewhere like Seattle. Missed a bit of it. Can't find any reference (video?) yet on the Daily Planet web site, or anywhere else yet on the web, actually...

I see patents for diff. shock absorbing schemes for inline skates, but the spring system looks really elegant. The wheels act independently. The show said they weren't in production yet. My guess will be (if they successfully commercialize) that they'll just be made under license by a larger company, so available to us all soon... errr, well, those of us that want to try a blade anyway
tks
lOck
ps... did finally get out to see Joshua at the new digs in Mimico, and pick up that disk brake for the hub motor. Thanks Joshua!

 

[Lock]

A while back I posted a vid from the Kickbike (TM) folks about kick bikes or kick scooters... whatever you wish to call `em:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttJkOJeCbSU

Just adding a couple more vids on the theme...
Note these are kick only designs... no assist.

Czech Rollo League Roznov 2002, scooter league in the Czech Republic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5nzHusGttg

Road racing in Finland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2i9GhU0aME


Here is a video that promotes automated pack swapping for two wheeled vehicles:
Unlimited Range Electric Scooter (URECA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVY0OxhA55s

From the YouTube page:
URECA Electric Scoter is a subsidiary of the Unlimited Range Electric Car Company. The URECA electric scooter demonstrated in this video is refueled in seconds by placing the scooter into a URECA Scooter Battery Exchange/Charge Station, paying for the exchange by credit/debit card or cash and pressing a button. The system then automatically removes the depleted battery from the scooter and replaces it with a fully charged one as illustrated in the movie.

The system if fully patented worldwide. (less)
Added: December 15, 2007
Category: Autos & Vehicles

I thought the fact they claim a worldwide patent on battery swaps (?) interesting...
tks
lOk

 

[Lock]

W/front-wheel drive (hub motor) rear of deck (rear "wheel") might look like this (this deck puts the blade in front):
tks
L

 

[Parsifal]

What are the differences between an e-bike and e-scooter performance wise? ....

The first thing that comes to mind is the weight!
I have an oxygen lepton I'm putting in place (62 Kg lead acid battery only), and an electric bike, an Italian model 22 Kg with lithium battery (www.microbike.it).
Well if battery deads (it is difficult withlithium battery, before I had a lead acid one...), I can still get home pedaling. The scooter, with regenerative braking, when you are pushing tries to regenerate battery with your effort...
You can imagine the picture!