Galileo/Newton agree-- 9/11 was an inside job!

[ErnestoA]

So I really enjoy the debate but these last few comments I do find offensive.

The timeline alone (I reached most of these conclusions within hours of the event) is evidence that propaganda (there wasn’t time for the propaganda engine to get started yet) was not a factor in my decisions.

The propaganda has been working on you since the day you were born. This is what you're missing. If I remember your post right, you even mentioned Osama's previous attacks (which were very likely BS, as his family is big time buddy buddy with the Bush clan). This is programming/propaganda, and you internalized it without even knowing it and let it affect your judgement.

I'm sorry you choose to be offended when others try to improve your life by trying to provide insight. Offending people isn't what I tend to go for unless someone's just asking for it or I think it may be the only thing that wakes them up. It's all based on love though. I had a crazy wife a long time ago that would get irrational pretty regularly and lock herself into loops, presenting the same totally illogical arguments about the dumbest things over and over again. The only way I could get her to even hear the words coming out of my mouth was to piss her off. The part of her brain/mental process that wouldn't let her understand logic was likely developed due to the overwhelming feelings of disempowerment that civilization causes. The next step up from being powerless is anger. I finally realized that if I could get her angry enough, that she'd break out of the loop she was in, get angry enough to feel stupid, then she'd calm down, apologize, and could rationally discuss things again. It took me five years to figure out how to break those irrationality loops that were based on propaganda and programming. I guess that sometimes, when I see someone that's obviously coherent and intelligent but falling victim to programming that makes them irrational, I might try to get them riled a bit, just to see if that helps. I'm surprised how often it works.

 

[nutnspecial]

The propaganda has been working on you since the day you were born. This is what you're missing. If I remember your post right, you even mentioned Osama's previous attacks (which were very likely BS, as his family is big time buddy buddy with the Bush clan). This is programming/propaganda, and you internalized it without even knowing it and let it affect your judgement.

Well put!

 

[Eclectic]

First I'll start we an Off-Topic response:

Hey, how much truth do you think there is behind alquieda (sp) actually being created by the cia as a tool? If there actually was cia involvement, wouldn't that make it so much easier to flip a covert drill 'live' and have a great patsy?

Ronald Reagan was so obsessed with the Soviet Union, he did a lot of stupid things to try and defeat them (surprise; they’re back). There were a lot of not so secret, secret programs (like Iran/Contra). He got involved Afghanistan (really dumb, Afghanistan eats empires, ask the Brits and Soviets). He sent the CIA to train the Mujahideen (holy freedom fighters) in asymmetrical warfare (little guys against big empires). Osama bin Laden was a Jihadi that was part of that program. It worked, the Soviets left and their empire crumbled (the end of the Soviet Union was because of Mikhail Gorbachev not RR). By that time, bin Laden had become a major player. After the Russians left, bin Laden said thank you very much for your help now leave us alone so we can live our (Islamic) lives the way we see fit. Our response was, we want to live your lives the way WE see fit. So he asked again for us to leave him alone and we said No, No, No we are the United States of America. Since bin Laden was trained in asymmetrical warfare, he started blowing things up. At first they were political and military targets (like military bases). After a while, Bill Clinton decided he had to do something about him. When the President received intel that bin Laden was at an al-Qaeda camp (by this time bin Laden had started his own group) he sent 70+ cruise missiles to blow up the camp and a WMD factory (turns out it was a baby food factory). Unfortunately, unlike Predator drones, cruise missiles take time. Bin Laden had already left the camp by the time the missiles arrive but many of his friends and family were still there. When I saw footage of bin Laden walking through the rubble of his camp, you could tell by the body language that the rules had changed. It was no longer just a holy war, it had become personal and he was filled with rage. That was the moment I said “That attack was a mistake because this guy is now going to start sending Jihad cruise missiles at us.” That’s when he started attacking civilian targets like trying to topple the WTTs with a truck bomb in the basement.

Under Reagan/Bush, the US had a habit of backing questionable leaders because it was expeditious to our agenda and then vilifying them later so we could take them out (Manuel Noriega had received awards from the DEA just before we invaded Panama)

So was Osama bin Laden created by the CIA to be used later as a patsy to be held up as the great evil? Probably not. The simple answer is; it was just a bunch fanatical people doing stupid fanatical things that affect hundreds of thousands of innocent lives.

End of OT

BTW – I don’t believe that nutspecial is a troll. He seems to genuinely believe in what he posts and is NOT doing it just to a rise out of others. And yes I do believe “It's because there were too many sheep that we're even in such a mess now. “

I noticed that when you quoted me, you left off the most pertinent part:
"Not because a larger percentage of the population are blindly following but because there are just too many sheep (people)."
You do make vague reference in your comment but you still kinda' cherry-picked the quote.

Thankyou, I think you have a responsible and mature nature in your involvement as well. I certainly don't want anyone to be personally offended by my words/beliefs.

I am not offended by your beliefs, I am offended by the idea that if I disagree with you, I must be flawed (like I am just brain washed with propaganda) and not that your (or my) arguments might be flawed.

 

[ErnestoA]

About the resonance thing. I used to have a textbook called Fundamentals of Mechanical Vibrations. I must have lost it or given it away. Anyway, I studied the heck out of that book and have applied what I learned there in my mechanical designs and custom vehicle builds, and haven't had a part break since. If you work through some of the equations in the book, you can easily see that every material has a specific resonance, that when reached, can break things apart at molecular levels. If one had access to enough computer power to fea model a building and analyze shape, materials, and material interaction such as dampening/harmonics/cancellation, they could figure out what frequency or frequencies and amplitude would be necessary to cause molecular changes in the materials the building was made of. If I can grasp the process as a mainly self educated homeless burnout, and John Hutchison has been demonstrating this stuff in his garage, on a shoestring budget, I have no doubt that others have fine tuned it. Ancient alien theorists believe that the trumpets blowing caused a resonance that brought the walls of Jericho down. Fundamentalist wingnuts believe that is was the power of the ark of the covenant.

Holy crap! I just looked the book up to put the link here, and I shouldn't have given that book away!
http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Mechanical-Vibrations-Graham-Kelly/dp/0071163255

 

[ErnestoA]

I am not offended by your beliefs, I am offended by the idea that if I disagree with you, I must be flawed (like I am just brain washed with propaganda) and not that your (or my) arguments might be flawed.

Two quick things.

First, in the OT you just posted, you just quoted a bunch of stuff you learned about bin laden through corporate/gov't controlled media, like it was gospel. I'd be willing to bet that ol Osama is in a mansion somewhere in Saudi Arabia swimming in his pool of dollars that the corp/gov gave him too be their boogeyman.

Second, being brainwashed is not flawed. It's normal in our civilization because of the barrage of lies that media spread. We're all somewhere on the range of brainwashing level. I woke up due to a few psychedelic and near death experiences. The world pretty much looks like the movie "They Live" to me now. When I see media, I see right through it. When I watch trends, I know what's probably going to happen, and it usually does. When people point out that you've been brainwashed, it's like pointing out that putting 87octane in your turbo porsche probably isn't the best idea. It's simply a suggestion that there's room for improvement/clarification of your world view and logical process.

 

[markz]

BTW Osama is "dead"
He is/was like 6'7" tall, and an arab. So being that tall in the arab world is "out of the ordinary"
Is he really dead, who knows. Did he really do it/plan it, I highly doubt it.

 

[Punx0r]

I'm sorry you choose to be offended when others try to improve your life by trying to provide insight. Offending people isn't what I tend to go for unless someone's just asking for it or I think it may be the only thing that wakes them up. It's all based on love though.

Yeah, Eclectric, stop being such an ungrateful dick. You need to listen to these guys and believe what they tell you to, otherwise you will be a mindless sheep.

I had a crazy wife a long time ago that would get irrational pretty regularly and lock herself into loops, presenting the same totally illogical arguments about the dumbest things over and over again.

 

[Eclectic]

First, in the OT you just posted, you just quoted a bunch of stuff you learned about bin laden through corporate/gov't controlled media, like it was gospel. I'd be willing to bet that ol Osama is in a mansion somewhere in Saudi Arabia swimming in his pool of dollars that the corp/gov gave him too be their boogeyman.

So now Bill Clinton is part of the conspiracy too. Because it was during the Clinton administration that is when the US first started engaging bin Laden. Then I must also assume that the CIA was grooming bin Laden for decades as a sleeper agent so he could be resurrected for this one mission. I must also assume that every media outlet in world (regardless of their country of origin, I don't get my information from a single source) is also part of the conspiracy.

Second, being brainwashed is not flawed. It's normal in our civilization because of the barrage of lies that media spread. We're all somewhere on the range of brainwashing level. I woke up due to a few psychedelic and near death experiences. The world pretty much looks like the movie "They Live" to me now. When I see media, I see right through it. When I watch trends, I know what's probably going to happen, and it usually does. When people point out that you've been brainwashed, it's like pointing out that putting 87octane in your turbo porsche probably isn't the best idea. It's simply a suggestion that there's room for improvement/clarification of your world view and logical process.

Again the only evidence you have of me being brainwashed is the fact that I disagree with you. Even though you claim I am not flawed, you still offer me suggestions to fix my flaws.

 

[rscamp]

There is a lot of conjecture in this thread. Here is an illustration of the problem with conjecture.

http://i.imgur.com/IuKevJu.jpg

 

[Punx0r]

Wasn't looking for it, but I've just seen a video of the collapse of WTC 7 that shows the penthouses collapsing into the main building. This was described by NIST as being one of the first signs of the progressive collapse underway (I also noted the roofline bows just before the main collapse). This part of the video is usually cut off by truthers as it's somewhat inconvenient when you're trying to claim the building was instantly exploded in mid-air.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrzeN-wvHD4


This quote from an ex-truther also popped up and I think it provides some insight in why they are the way they are:

So why are so many people convinced it was an inside job? I think part of the problem is that truthers, ironically, aren’t actually interested in the truth. If they were, they would eagerly examine both sides of the issue. The problem is that believing 9/11 was an inside job is part of a truther’s identity. It’s who they are. They like the idea that they know what’s really going on, that the government didn’t fool them, that they’re somehow smarter than most of the population.

 

[markz]

Who knows?
Who really know?
Flip a coin.....yay or nay

Nice video, it debunks the controlled demo "issue" for sure.
Aint no denying it.

 

[r3volved]

 

[markz]

LMFAO
Thats the host of the aliens show on History.
What a quack he is.

 

[nutnspecial]

This is such a hot topic for us few in this way. I'm sorry we are divided almost like night and day.
These things run so very deep, to our cores.

IMO 'right' doesn't involve suicide bombing pearl harbor, and retribution doesn't involve dropping atomic bombs on their nation.

Catch the relevance? catch my drift?

I've continued on that path, as a human free from deserved judgement, and I see the growing of evil like a cancer, and such great potential for control in this system. The control comes from our own obliviousness to the potential for slanted and controlled 'truth' from the naturally trusted sources.

Whether or not, there was a day,
when islam radicals took our towers away,
Look to the inside of you and me,
judge yourself before sentencing enemy.

Can two wrongs make a right,
can we kill without taking away the other human's rights?
There is right and wrong, before ending in the place we truly belong.

You have to think completely objectively. Hold nothing of yourself above your own comprehension.
The way I look at it, is that I'm completely insignificant, and will whisper away back into dust. This allows me to access the best part of myself, the selfless part. I see the political and war-type national games, the massive system of control telling us the opposite of what is good. I see the evil wrought in the name of good. I can see the depth of perversion in mankind, and how it has multiplied in the hidden workings of a world goverment.

I will breathe my last breath doing what is right- not without a fight- but never taking from another the same right- to breathe, to think, to truly understand the gravity of life.

This was kinda for eclectic, cuz they kinda bared what was at their core of beliefs, so I tried also. There has to be a way to agree and not divide.

 

[markz]

So you know more then likely, its almost guarunteed. That the CIA, NSA and CSIS are all probably reading this.
No no, CSIS is not a wing of ISIS, no no, its closer to home then ya might think.....eh!

----------------------

These things run so very deep, to our cores.

Ah not really, not mine. Sorry to disappoint you Nutspecial.

and retribution doesn't involve dropping atomic bombs on their nation.

Nope, it involves blaming certain people, in certain countries, in order to influence that country and others to "Join the USA cause"

I've continued on that path, as a human free from deserved judgement

I think every human judges in one way or another.

and I see the growing of evil like a cancer

You percieve it perhaps.

and such great potential for control in this system.

We can only control ourselves. The governement controls everything else.

The control comes from our own obliviousness to the potential for slanted and controlled 'truth' from the naturally trusted sources.

Hmmmmmmm, is obliviousness even a word in the dictionary? Which naturally trusted source? Every source is slanted. Even Consumer Electronics Magazine.

Can two wrongs make a right

No, but many more wrongs can be covered up and a campaign of dilussion begun long ago my friend.

You have to think completely objectively.

I dont HAVE TO do anything.

The way I look at it, is that I'm completely insignificant

Yes, good.

I will breathe my last breath doing what is right

What is right, is NEVER breaking the law. Including speeding, and Ebicycles over the stated wattage.

Anyway, keep up the good work Nutspecial, just trying to grind ya a little for S&17's-n-Giggles

 

[ErnestoA]

First, in the OT you just posted, you just quoted a bunch of stuff you learned about bin laden through corporate/gov't controlled media, like it was gospel. I'd be willing to bet that ol Osama is in a mansion somewhere in Saudi Arabia swimming in his pool of dollars that the corp/gov gave him too be their boogeyman.

So now Bill Clinton is part of the conspiracy too. Because it was during the Clinton administration that is when the US first started engaging bin Laden. Then I must also assume that the CIA was grooming bin Laden for decades as a sleeper agent so he could be resurrected for this one mission. I must also assume that every media outlet in world (regardless of their country of origin, I don't get my information from a single source) is also part of the conspiracy.

Second, being brainwashed is not flawed. It's normal in our civilization because of the barrage of lies that media spread. We're all somewhere on the range of brainwashing level. I woke up due to a few psychedelic and near death experiences. The world pretty much looks like the movie "They Live" to me now. When I see media, I see right through it. When I watch trends, I know what's probably going to happen, and it usually does. When people point out that you've been brainwashed, it's like pointing out that putting 87octane in your turbo porsche probably isn't the best idea. It's simply a suggestion that there's room for improvement/clarification of your world view and logical process.

Again the only evidence you have of me being brainwashed is the fact that I disagree with you. Even though you claim I am not flawed, you still offer me suggestions to fix my flaws.

Bill Clinton's puppet strings are in the same hands as Bush, Reagan, Obama. If you can't see that, I might as well be having a discussion with a gerbil.

I pointed out that your logical process regarding the integrity of the us government is flawed, and for good reasons that aren't necessarily your fault. All the evidence I need is readily available in your posts on this topic. If you want to play the victim, have fun.

 

[ErnestoA]

The control comes from our own obliviousness to the potential for slanted and controlled 'truth' from the naturally trusted sources.

There has to be a way to agree and not divide.

The top quote is very well put!

I'm assuming that you meant disagree in the second quote. If someone, despite all evidence, still thinks that any government is, or even could be, honest and trustworthy, they are an enemy of the environment and humanity so I have no problem being divided from them. If I ignore them, their ignorance won't make me sad, and if I don't befriend them, I won't be sad when the beast they enable through their willful ignorance eats them up.

 

[ErnestoA]

So you know more then likely, its almost guarunteed. That the CIA, NSA and CSIS are all probably reading this.
No no, CSIS is not a wing of ISIS, no no, its closer to home then ya might think.....eh!

I hope they come and shoot me soon. Don't know how longer I can put up with the general state of apathy and ignorance that seems so prevalent.

 

[marty]

Marty, Take the time to read back through, this was posted previously. FEMA and USGS data confirms evidence of molten steel as well, but here is a vid:

[youtube]fs_ogSbQFbM[/youtube]

After careful analysis of the video I have come to the conclusion that what is proposed to be molten steel is in reality a meteorite or a burnt fruitcake. I have also come to the conclusion that all Truthers are fruitcakes. I do respect you for thinking of alternative possibilities of why buildings fall down.

I have lost faith in YouTube as a media for the truth.

eTrike and all you Truthers, Arguing with you is like trying to convince someone that the earth is flat. Ever been to the ocean? Look out at the water and you can clearly see the edge of the earth.

I give up and will stop posting in this thread.

Thanks for telling me about 7 World Trade Center. I thought only 2 buildings fell down.

3 buildings caught on fire and fell down. That it that's all.

 

[r3volved]

Relevant
[youtube]EhWpP-vPUcQ[/youtube]

 

[nutnspecial]

That's just wrong Revolved :lol:

Imo , look for rainbows in the sky when it's not raining, halo effects around the sun/moon in the 'natural' clouds.

 

[Punx0r]

That Potholer54 guy has some amusing videos. I watched a couple on global warming that were interesting (deniers photo shopping warming graphs). The one "how to argue with assholes" is also good - probably some lessons there for all of use trying to engage with cranks.

 

[r3volved]

I watch a lot of similar stuff on YouTube. Lectures, debates, documentaries and skeptic talks. I watch a lot of atheism stuff and just recently found his channel.
I like his videos. He says right up front that he's not a super scientist and he's literally just cross checking facts...just as capable as any rational thinker

 

[Arlo1]

I have not validated this but maybe worth a read. http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=7858

 

[neptronix]

That one's a bit dated and sensationalistic. I don't know about the truth of it.

But there are indeed, a lot of people in high places who have called bullshit on 9/11 being a terrorist attack we weren't expecting.

Here is an article about a guy who co-chaired the 9/11 commission report:
Fox news' take: http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/...rmer-senator-government-hiding-full-911-story
New york times' take: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/01/us/graham-and-kerrey-see-possible-saudi-9-11-link.html

Former Florida Governor and U.S. Senator Bob Graham co-chaired the 9/11 investigation in Congress. He claims we still don't know the full story behind the September 11th attacks because our own government is covering it up.

Graham helped write classified documents that he says reveal Al Qaeda had help launching the September 11th attacks. He claims there is evidence of a terror-support network in the United States, that supported Al Qaeda, and may still be in place for ISIS today.

Presidents Bush and Obama have both refused to release 28 pages of those classified records. Though Graham cannot reveal the specific contents, he accuses the Saudi government of working against us behind the scenes, and he accuses the U.S. government of keeping it a secret (possibly to protect our oil interests or alliance with the Saudi Arabia).

Bob Graham is a very pro-government liberal.
But, you know. I'm just one of those nutty truthers, and so is one of the best authorities on the subject.