How to fix or prevent wire cut with Crystalyte HS35 motor

[groundproximity]

Here´s my try to improve the cable problem.

First i got new phase cables. Those are silicon glass silk 250°C heat resistant wires. They are a bit thicker than the stock ones.
I will use them just inside the motor and in addition i will cover them again with some high temperature heat resistant glass silk tube.



Outside the motor i use this as a phase cable. Again a slight increase in diameter



Those are the connections between motor and controller.



The new soldered and double protected phase wires.



I epoxied the cables in the axle. The epoxy remains in a kind of chewy elastic condition.
I left some additional epoxy at the position of the rubber seal. After hardening i shaped this additional epoxy so that it will seal properly.

View attachment 4

After adding a lot of grease on to the epoxy and inside the rubber seal i reinstalled the cover and it looks good so far.




More to come after i test rided it for some kilometers
But it should be okay now. The only thing that contacts the rubber seal is grease and a thick layer of heavy duty epoxy and the cables are well protected far inside the axle.

 

[groundproximity]

Approx 500 km so far. Many hill climbs. 1800W cont. No issues at all. Motor gets warm. Maybe 50°C
I´d say it was worth to replace all the wires.
No issues with the sensorless Lyen Controller.

 

[gensem]

.

 

[kev82]

I got a HS3540 from ebikes.ca a couple of weeks back, and have been breaking it in. A completely awesome motor and I love it. Last night I was riding home from a friend when the motor started jittering. I stopped using the motor and biked sans motor back home. When I came home I tore everything apart to try to find what the problem was. All connections seemed fine and I couldn't spot anything out of the ordinary. After a bit of googling I stumbled upon this thread. I promptly unmounted the motor and as the thread suggested the wires were shorted:

This is after about 100km on 48v, and I just wish I had seen this thread earlier. I also feel like someone at ebikes.ca should have let me know about this issue, since this is obviously a common issue with these motors, with some vendors even modifying them before shipping to customers to prevent this kind of trouble. This seems to be easily prevented, but hard to fix after the damage is done. I've never opened a hub motor up before and am a bit vary of doing it. I hope I get a response from ebikes.ca soon, hopefully with some recommendations on what to do and if they can do something for me.

 

[Hugues]

...I also feel like someone at ebikes.ca should have let me know about this issue, since this is obviously a common issue with these motors, with some vendors even modifying them before shipping to customers to prevent this kind of trouble. This seems to be easily prevented, but hard to fix after the damage is done. I've never opened a hub motor up before and am a bit vary of doing it. I hope I get a response from ebikes.ca soon, hopefully with some recommendations on what to do and if they can do something for me.

I agree with you, it's a little frustrating to bump into this annoying problem and then realize it was easy to fix/prevent. I did not buy mine from ebikes.ca.

Check the other thread on this, it shows how to open the hub and arrange the damaged wire, then do the mods: get rid of this damn seal with metallic ring inside and pivot 180 degrees the first plastic cap, it's all there with pictures. In the process, check your Halls sensor, mine were damaged but i did not realize and had to reopen the hub later.

On the positive side, i learned a lot in the past months because i had these problems. I know much better how each component work with the others. Now when i have a problem or hear some strange noise, i have a much better idea what can go wrong. On the safety side also, it's important to understand what each part is there for, so that you don't end up hurting yourself with a bike that is not secure anymore.

I suggest you do the mods yourself, you'll learn a lot.

Hugues
Switzerland

 

[kev82]

Check the other thread on this, it shows how to open the hub and arrange the damaged wire, then do the mods: get rid of this damn seal with metallic ring inside and pivot 180 degrees the first plastic cap, it's all there with pictures. In the process, check your Halls sensor, mine were damaged but i did not realize and had to reopen the hub later.

On the positive side, i learned a lot in the past months because i had these problems. I know much better how each component work with the others. Now when i have a problem or hear some strange noise, i have a much better idea what can go wrong. On the safety side also, it's important to understand what each part is there for, so that you don't end up hurting yourself with a bike that is not secure anymore.

I suggest you do the mods yourself, you'll learn a lot.

Hugues
Switzerland

I've already opened the motor, shortened the phase wires and soldered them together. Only 2 phase wires were damaged, all hall wires and the last phase wire were perfecly fine. I just need to close the motor up again, but here's hoping this fix will hold.

In the event that it doesn't I intend to change out the phase wires. What material should I use for the new phase wires? And where can I get it?

FWIW ebikes.ca didn't even bother to respond to my email where I asked what to do. The email was sent on September 6th.

 

[nicobie]

FWIW ebikes.ca didn't even bother to respond to my email where I asked what to do. The email was sent on September 6th.

Justin is on vacation. Give him a chance to catch up, I'm sure he will get back to you.

 

[sn0wchyld]

FWIW ebikes.ca didn't even bother to respond to my email where I asked what to do. The email was sent on September 6th.

Justin is on vacation. Give him a chance to catch up, I'm sure he will get back to you.

ill second that, I asked a few Q's of justin about a CA (that I bought from lyen). Took about 4-5 days to hear back the first time, but since then its been only a day or so. top notch service, particularly seeing I didn't purchase directly from him.

 

[kev82]

Doesn't look like it - It's been a week now and still no response from them.


I already opened the motor, fixed the phase wires but when I assembled everything together the damn slot in the axle is so sharp that it nicked one of the phase wires and it looks like I'm going to have to replace the phase wires completely. Where do I get replacement phase wires? Can I use 12AWG silicone wires?

 

[deecanio]

**bump**

guys just finally getting around to seeting up my hs35 (i know, i know).
just wanted to check, i get the plastic inner piece mod to keep the wires flatter before they right angle exit but hugues wrote:

"Check the other thread on this, it shows how to open the hub and arrange the damaged wire, then do the mods: get rid of this damn seal with metallic ring inside and pivot 180 degrees the first plastic cap, it's all there with pictures. In the process, check your Halls sensor, mine were damaged but i did not realize and had to reopen the hub later."

Do i need to do the plastic washer mod AND remove the seal???

Also is there anything else i should check before i run it?

D

 

[Hugues]

**bump**

guys just finally getting around to seeting up my hs35 (i know, i know).
just wanted to check, i get the plastic inner piece mod to keep the wires flatter before they right angle exit but hugues wrote:

"Check the other thread on this, it shows how to open the hub and arrange the damaged wire, then do the mods: get rid of this damn seal with metallic ring inside and pivot 180 degrees the first plastic cap, it's all there with pictures. In the process, check your Halls sensor, mine were damaged but i did not realize and had to reopen the hub later."

Do i need to do the plastic washer mod AND remove the seal???

Also is there anything else i should check before i run it?

D

surely others will give their opinion, but i checked mine last week and it's holding up very well. I recommend removing at least the metal ring inside the dust seal. But my seal was damaged so i bought a thick rubber o'ring and cut it to fit the whole and nicely around the wires, and put some grease. After 1 or 2 months, the o'ring is still intact and has not damaged the wires.

The most important is to pivot the first plastic cap 180 degrees so that it does not let the wires touch the cover plate.

good luck.

 

[deecanio]

Thanks Hugues,

i'll remove the metal ring and do the inner cap mod just to be safe.
Thanks for the thread guys, saved me a ball ache.

D

 

[ColinB]

...I also feel like someone at ebikes.ca should have let me know about this issue, since this is obviously a common issue with these motors, with some vendors even modifying them before shipping to customers to prevent this kind of trouble. This seems to be easily prevented, but hard to fix after the damage is done. I've never opened a hub motor up before and am a bit vary of doing it. I hope I get a response from ebikes.ca soon, hopefully with some recommendations on what to do and if they can do something for me.

I agree with you, it's a little frustrating to bump into this annoying problem and then realize it was easy to fix/prevent. I did not buy mine from ebikes.ca.

Check the other thread on this, it shows how to open the hub and arrange the damaged wire, then do the mods: get rid of this damn seal with metallic ring inside and pivot 180 degrees the first plastic cap, it's all there with pictures. In the process, check your Halls sensor, mine were damaged but i did not realize and had to reopen the hub later.

On the positive side, i learned a lot in the past months because i had these problems. I know much better how each component work with the others. Now when i have a problem or hear some strange noise, i have a much better idea what can go wrong. On the safety side also, it's important to understand what each part is there for, so that you don't end up hurting yourself with a bike that is not secure anymore.

I suggest you do the mods yourself, you'll learn a lot.

Hugues
Switzerland

I'm feeling dense - where is the other thread that describes how to take the motor apart and remove the seal? My HS35 (Bought Spring 2013) is doing the same thing. After 160km, the plastic cover has nearly been worn through. Thanks!

Ok, I've found a description on the ebikes.ca site that tells how to pull the motor apart, but it is not clear if this is necessary to just remove the seal. I've tried to lever it out, but so far it has resisted. Strongly. Does anyone know? Thanks!

Link to ebikes.ca troubleshooting page. http://www.ebikes.ca/troubleshooting.shtml

 

[dzoberti]

Ok guys, I've read the instructions how to fix this problem and I must say (as some others have also mentioned), it's not completely clear. I have a new motor, I'm guessing 2014 model (just bought) and as I'm looking at that piece of plastic it all makes it even less clear. Could it be possible that they have fixed it? I guess someone with experience on this problem will have to confirm. If so, anyone buying this motor from now on can rest assured this problem is in the past.

After removing the cover plastic, I tried to remove the thick plastic ring. As I was pulling it out, I saw the piece is not only a thick washer, but has a tube towards the inside of the motor (as pointed by the arrow in the first picture).

Apparently this piece is shaped as the drawing in the second picture (I didn't pull it all the way out, because it's quite difficult - the cables are thick, so I don't know how far it reaches. Probably all the way to the inside of the cover)


The cable is going on the inside of this plastic piece, which is not rotating. That means nothing can grind against the cables and destroy their insulation, shorting halls and so on. Am I right, or will I be back with shorted halls soon?

 

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

If you have the new version motor, the motor axle is hollow.
Wires are feed through this hole, so no more groove (like old versions motors).

With the new motor no more mods are needed to prevent wire cutting issue.

 

[cal3thousand]

If you have the new version motor, the motor axle is hollow.
Wires are feed through this hole, so no more groove (like old versions motors).

With the new motor no more mods are needed to prevent wire cutting issue.

If you look at the pictures, it is clearly not a hollow axle that he has in his hands.

Look at my photo here of this HT35 that I just rewired. Remove the plastic piece completely and throw it in the trash. It belongs only there.

Then, if you look down the axle, you will see a 'seal'. Remove this too as it will cut your wires eventually. Then, optionally you can dremel out the part behind where the seal was until the hole is larger than the bearing hole. Only a couple mm in diameter to remove.

Then, if you use an 'extension spring' (as opposed to compression spring) as a 'shell' and heat shrink it in place, you will protect the most vulnerable spot from being cut:

 

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

Well I have the latest version of the motor and it has a hollow axle.
It stops before the plastic cable protection piece.
So you can't see from outside.

If you want for sure just (hollow axle) remove the side cover :lol:

 

[dzoberti]

Wow, I really wasn't planning on removing the cover. The S/N of the number is QM1306RXXXX, which is why I guess it came of the production line June 2013? Anyone knows when the hollow axle was introduced? Anyway, I finally removed that plastic part and it's not as long as I thought.

The seal which I now see, is very soft and doesn't seem like it could cut through the wire. I like your solution with the spring cal3thousand. So I'll remove the plastic and put the spring on instead. Don't know what to do about this seal though :S ?

 

[cal3thousand]

The seal which I now see, is very soft and doesn't seem like it could cut through the wire. I like your solution with the spring cal3thousand. So I'll remove the plastic and put the spring on instead. Don't know what to do about this seal though :S ?

The seal has a metal ring that creates the solid circumference that holds the seal in place. It's not just soft rubber. That rubber wears away and exposes the sharp ring underneath that will eventually cut your cable again. But if you use the spring, it might defend against that stupid seal.s

EDIT: The black zip tie I have on the axle (look close at the pic) also helps keep the wire in the channel and away from the cutting surface.

 

[dzoberti]

EDIT: The black zip tie I have on the axle (look close at the pic) also helps keep the wire in the channel and away from the cutting surface.

Ah, that's what that is. I understand now why the seal is a problem and I'll remove that too. I guess some force must be applied to remove it, since it didn't move when i just poked it a little. I'm always hesitant to push with a lot of force if I don't know what exactly is going to happen.

With a zip tie and the spring around the cable, I won't worry about the cable anymore. I am curious about the effect this has on waterproofing. Obviously water can now get into the motor. Might it cause some rust in the long term? Or is this negligible.

 

[Ohbse]

I removed the plastic hood and the seal on mine and tossed them. ~3000km later and inside looks like new still. My suspicion is it would actually look worse with the seal in place as water would inevitably still get in, but have no way to escape.

A properly sealed motor would perhaps be a good thing, but the way Crystalyte have done it will inevitably fail and probably slice through your wires too. I just have a small zip tie keeping the wire bundle in the channel until its well clear of anything that could interfere. Stock wiring internally, replaced with 10awg silicone stuff shortly after axle exit for the phase wires. Running 4kw daily with no issues.