methods 26kwh Emoli bug build

[grindz145]

BAH!



-methods

wtf! Is that a SepEx D and D?

 

[karma]

hay Isn't this forum about finding the limit of ev components. i say you found the limit .

and no i cant fix it :wink:

but does make nice wallpaper

 

[evblazer]

Ouch that motor looks like the ADV 9" motor on my old S-15 pickup after the dude who bought it from me towed it home on a dolly a few hundred miles on the highway and it somehow dropped into first and he thought he had run over something.
Bet he takes my advice and removes the driveshaft next time!

Do you know what size that motor is and was it sepex of just brushed dc? I've been looking to get rid of an advanced dc motor I had but it might be a size smaller then that, and is brushed.

 

[methods]

Unfortunately I must admit that I destroyed this motor out stupidity - not by pushing its limits - and that is the last I want to talk about that :?

I am however now in the market... I am not sure if I want to grab the first cheap 6" motor that will mount up to my plate or if I want to step up to something more worthy.

I am not willing at this point to put up the dough for anything other than a series wound DC - though I am willing to step up to a 9"
I want to use my current controller while I work on a DIY.

Suggestions are welcome.

-methods

 

[AussieJester]

Truly sorry to hear of your misfortune Patrick I hope you can find a suitable replacement
at a reasonable price...all the best

KiM

 

[amberwolf]

I've been asking around, including over at DIYEC, to see who has a "spare" motor they'd sell cheap. I've read some threads over there where people have *given* small motors to others to help with their projects; so there is probably someone that's got something laying around you could use.

Locally I've not heard back from anyone I've asked so far.

 

[Malcolm]

Unfortunately I must admit that I destroyed this motor out stupidity - not by pushing its limits - and that is the last I want to talk about that

I know that feeling. I spent the last two evenings repairing my Fechter/Goodrum BMS after I carelessly crossed two cell taps. I just got it working again and was about to finish for the evening when I thought I'll just turn down the finishing voltage on the charger a touch. Did that while the charger was live, of course, but then decided to refit the cover while it was still live. Bang!!! Bugger

 

[dbaker]

Want to consider a 3phase induction motor driven by a VFD? It would be the same digital programming issues you have mastered for ebike controllers setting up the VFD. Problems are the higher DC voltage to drive the VFD but a 230vac 3 phase motor will cost a lot less than the one that blew.

Dave

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I think that this deserves one of these T shirts:


Jeremy

 

[methods]

Want to consider a 3phase induction motor driven by a VFD? It would be the same digital programming issues you have mastered for ebike controllers setting up the VFD. Problems are the higher DC voltage to drive the VFD but a 230vac 3 phase motor will cost a lot less than the one that blew.

Dave

Sure - I will consider anything.
I took a ride in this car here -> http://etischer.com/awdev/
He is running 99 TS 100A cells in series
You should really click around his site - the car was awesome.

The higher DC voltage certainly is a problem... My current pack would have to be 4X... I could do it though, I have enough cells.
Another issue is the high rpm and the fact that those motors really carry RPM so I would need to switch over to a clutch. I cant stand the thought of waiting 3 seconds to shift

Anyhow - what have you got?
Lets see it.

-methods

 

[methods]

I think that this deserves one of these T shirts:

or one of these

-methods

 

[dbaker]

Eric Tischer's VW Passat is a really clean build. No clutch; solved the motor to transmission connection; used a Siemens EV 3 phase motor; built his own controller. Those Siemens motors were on ebay a year or so ago for $1k. There was another guy in Redwood City with a lower budget build using a much smaller motor and hacking a VFD. EV Album has many of them. There were a couple of Australians using Danfoss VFD's and SLA batteries in 4x4's and pickups. There is a Lotus Elise in there too.

I got a 15hp induction motor and a VFD off ebay and dropped my project when the prospect of spending $7k on batteries woke me up.

Dave

 

[AussieJester]

There were a couple of Australians using Danfoss VFD's and SLA batteries in 4x4's and pickups.

There is alot of info on the Australian Electrical Vehicle Forum it is 99% cars and motorcycle builds its a hugely active forum to, might be worth a look for some ideas Methy?

Best of luck

KiM

EDIT: Was just trolling through YouTube and came across this neat VW electric bug damn quick acceleration too i thought

[youtube]cz069B67gAo[/youtube]

 

[Jay64]

I think that rebirthauto from that video is where my local chapter of electric auto association is going to start meeting at now. If I decide to go back to one of their meetings I'll try and check out that bug and bring back some info.

 

[methods]

Man... I have not had a chance to breath in weeks.

Thanks to evblazer the emoli bug is back in action.
He took the time to very carefully crate up a great motor at a great price and ship it to me. Saved the day with a nearly bolt-on replacement.


View attachment 003_Bug_and_Solo_V2.0.jpg
View attachment 005_Bug_and_Solo_V2.0.jpg
View attachment 006_Bug_and_Solo_V2.0.jpg
View attachment 007_Bug_and_Solo_V2.0.jpg

What you dont see in this picture is the fact that I first bolted the motor up to the adapter plate upside down and had to re-do everything. Why I ever thought the adapter plate would be symmetrical is beyond me... Ever see a transmission with a symmetrical bolt pattern?



The new motor is a few inches shorter that the last. It can still reach an honest 60mph but I have to really pay attention to my foot. I have gotten this motor hot enough to light a cigarette already The motor came with a thermal switch that is set to 150C. The insulation is class H so it is rated for 180C. You can smell the motor cooking long before it sees significant damage.

I have installed one of my BMS boxes and it works great on the 140Ah pack

Next big mod is to add forced air cooling to the motor. Ideally I will pull air from the cabin and recirculate it back so that I can kill three birds with one stone in the winter - cool the motor, warm myself, and use my nose as a temperature probe.

-methods

 

[oatnet]

Next big mod is to add forced air cooling to the motor.

Oh Yeah.

Important note - the fan in these motors is on side opposite the main shaft, designed to blow air through the motor towards the adaptor plate. In rear-motor VW installations, the motor is reversed from its intended installation, and subjected to airflow that works against the fan. They get WAY hotter than when mounted in the front, so forced air cooling is crucial.

This is the main reason I haven't taken my VW Bus up to 60mph yet. :lol:

-JD

 

[methods]

Yep - I got back there and spun it up to confirm the flow direction last week.
Seems logical enough - you would want the coolest air on the brushes.

As far as forced cooling - here are some of the ideas I have:

Insane solution: 230mph 1,500W electric leaf blower on a thermal switch.

Reasonable solution: Blower (heater motor etc) with 3" ducts on whenever the motor is over 70C (or some number)

Quick fix solution: RC airplane motor/prop mounted on a stick aimed at the brushes. I have some seriously high power stuff.... could do a 3KW 4" prop that screams like an insane person or maybe a larger 11" pusher... I dont have any ducted fans on hand - but I could have one in a day or two. I kind of like the idea of a ducted fan screaming at 120db as I ride through parking logs

-methods

 

[grindz145]

For that amount of effort water-cooling might not be that much harder to implement. Do you think it'd be worth it?

 

[amberwolf]

Water cooling a big brushed motor is something that's been discussed on other EV forums I've run across, and generally it's not recommended because it won't cool the brushes, which are probably the hottest part of it anyway. If you did cool them directly, the coolant would probably become conductive due to carbon dust from the brushes, and bad things would eventually happen.

Cooling them indirectly would require things like boring out the shaft so you could get coolant inside, having spinning valves, etc. Yuck.

 

[methods]

In principle this worked - until I thought I could run the 12V fans at 20V.
Then a funny smell came out.




That was just an experiment.
Next I am doing something like this:
http://www.evsource.com/tls_motor_cooling.php
Of course I will source the parts myself and rig up a Ghetto adapter.
Luke is trying to convince me to use some ridiculous 2KW 5" RC ducted fan....
Probably blow hard enough to shoot the brushes right out the other side of the motor.

View attachment 008_PERM.jpg

I have a couple of these sitting around if anyone is interested.
One is in good shape - the other is frozen.
Have not even looked at them - got them as part of a lot I bought up.

Still not reading PM's

-methods

 

[AussieJester]

Luke is trying to convince me to use some ridiculous 2KW 5" RC ducted fan....
Probably blow hard enough to shoot the brushes right out the other side of the motor.

HAHA likely his intention, Luke doesn't like brushed motors much from what i have read

Did you have your fans all blowing in or in a push pull setup Patrick? I think smaller ducted fans in push
pull config would be the way to go, they also sound trick, you would sound like a plane humming down the freeway hehehe

KiM

 

[methods]

HAHA likely his intention, Luke doesn't like brushed motors much from what i have read

He claims that he does not like brushed motors or low RPM motors yet oddly.... 5 minutes ago I packed up a PERM motor for him.

Did you have your fans all blowing in or in a push pull setup Patrick? I think smaller ducted fans in push
pull config would be the way to go, they also sound trick, you would sound like a plane humming down the freeway hehehe

KiM

All of those fans blow in - the air exits up at the drive end of the motor. There is an internal fan as well - sucking at the brush end and blowing at the drive end.
I would probably just to push-push instead of push-pull since the motor is getting up toward 200C and any RC ducted fan wont last long at those exit temps.
There will also be conductive brush dust blowing through.

-methods

 

[amberwolf]

I have a couple of these sitting around if anyone is interested.
One is in good shape - the other is frozen.
Have not even looked at them - got them as part of a lot I bought up.

Still not reading PM's

When you do, how much for the frozen up one? Keeping in mind you can probably find another buyer before I can scrape up money.

 

[methods]

Sorry - that one is gone.

-methods

 

[amberwolf]

I figured it would be.