My new Electric Outboard Motor ( hub motor ) Silent and Fast

[Bazaki]

3900 rpm ? Is that possible ? I thought about 2500 rpm is the most efficient rpm, and after about 3000 rpm cavitation start to happen ?

Today I found out my gear ratio is not 1:2.15 but 1:1.75, so that is better for me, also I found out the last run on video my gears were not running in oil but in water, today I put some new oil in it and made everything waterproof.

Last time I also could go faster due to max motor rpm, at least that is what I thought, maybe it was limited by the controller current at 80A today I will use a 24 Fet 4110, that should 125A for a few seconds without overheating.

Now unloaded at 68V my prop goes 2475 rpm

Is it possible to read the RPM without a IR wireless rpm meter ? IR RPM is too unstable at the boat.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19578___K2_kv_rpm_Meter_with_motor_speed_adjustment.html
I also have these but only goes to max 12s lipo.

 

[Honk]

I used a laquered hall sensor for my RPM readings in the water. It was mounted next to the prop.
Then I fitted 6 magnets evenly spread out circular along the prop body.
The hall pulses was connected to a Flukemeter with frequency input and the readings
multiplied by 10 to get actual RPM. It worked like a charm....

There is no RPM limit, only tip speed limit.
You have to adapt shaft RPM for the prop you intend using.
Mudmotors often run at 3600-4200 RPM prop speed.

 

[merkhond]

how is it coming along?

 

[Hillhater]

What about this:

My 50 kv Turnigy outrunner c80-100 motor, epoxy the windings to make it waterproof, use ceramic bearings and run the whole thing IN the water.
So it will never heat up and no worries about a waterproof casing. Maybe a 36 Fet sensorless controller to drive this thing.

A similar "wet" outrunner has been used before ...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=33877

 

[Bazaki]

[youtube]ppbFNs1GYn8[/youtube]


I'm getting closer, but I keep blowing controllers.
I now use a 24 Fet 4110 at 45V at 80A no problems, but at 85V 80A the controller will blow mosfets directly.

 

[Honk]

Great progress.

Your 24 fet controller has 4 fets per group in parallel.
It seems enough according to the IRFB4110 datasheet but you might have gotten
some counterfeit mosfets from eBay that is far from the proper specification.
Have you tested the RDSon on any of the 4110's you got?

Otherwise the position sensors might be slightly off sync causing the failure at higher volts and amps.

 

[FeralDog]

Good Job!
Power + prop ....when you get it right it's amazing.

 

[Bazaki]

Thanks guys,

About the controller, first I blew a few 18 fet 4110 controllers directly after a bit power at 98v, I thought this 98v was probably to high, but the same happens at 85V at 18 fet en 24 fet.

If I run it sensorless I get about 100 rpm/ volt, when I ran it sensored with the 24 fet 4110 hall sensor controller I get about 110 rpm/volt so maybe indeed it is a bit out of sync then ?

At the video also it doesn't sound 100% smooth, maybe it is a timing issue.

 

[Honk]

You should really try to hook up an oscilloscope to your setup and see what happening.
There might be some severe spikes killing your controller due to a sync problem.
You can use a 12-230V converter for the scope if you cannot run the motor at home in a barrel of water (for load resistance).

Otherwise try replacing the 100V 4110 controller by 150V fets. Preferably this.

 

[Bazaki]

I now want to try a 36 fet 4110 greentime controller and a 30 fet 4115 fet greentime controller.
If that doesn't work out I probably buy the expensive original 500A or 700A Goldenmotor controller.

 

[regmeister]

"Solar Powered!, Axle Grinder!..."

Ha ha.

[youtube]hWawsbpin7A[/youtube]

 

[LockH]

Cute. But some sailors might say "quaint", or "antique". (Note *sailors* perhaps more than "boaters".)

Because I stumbled across something the polynesians etc have known about for perhaps many centuries. Watt they call a "catamaran". In their speak, a raft, made of logs tied together. In modern/western terms a vessel with two (or more eg 3, a "tri" etc) light weight (lacking ballast) hulls on a sailing vessel, "tied" together with beams, which might still operate in shallow waters (the "blades", center boards and rudders are designed to "kick up" when hitting an object), and pulls up/parks on the beach just fine.

And despite "light weight" being sorta "key" to high speeds (waaay faster than most other sailboats, but have passed many motorboats too), I have also packed the "trampoline" (cloth stretched between hulls and connecting beams) with tent, groceries, extra clothes, etc etc and gone camping from shore to shore, for a week at a time.

My daughters (the two that I know about) used to enjoy "racing" around our harbour and environs at 2-3 times most other boat traffic both gasoline and diseasal powered (and those under sail, and those others observing the harbour "speed limits"), plus offsetting sideways wind pressures by lifting one "weather" (the "up wind" side of the boat, where typically our weather comes from) hull out of the water (makes that hull "heavier", literally, to "balance"/counteract the wind pressure).

The same principles (air/wind power) work onshore as well (gotta add wheels though).

So, ask me watt I have paid for energy all my life (on the water).

But yes, like some others, I still enjoy seeing antiques.

Cheers

L

 

[bearing]

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/5920/5daw.jpg

Originally an Archimedes 5hp air cooled two stroke with a Bing carburator and the cylinder/head molded in one piece?
I have one of those somewhere under a pile of junk. I think they are quite rare, so I was surprised when I saw the pic, especially with this beltdrive setup (Awesome! ). Generally, do you think beltdrive is better than the common angle gears?

Do you think this 100mm inrunner could work in a direct or planetary gear drive setup?
http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/100mm/tp100-inrunner-brushless-motor-rc-boat-150kv-23000w/

 

[Bazaki]

I believe it was a Volvo Penta 9hp :wink:
But maybe different brands use this bracket, who knows...

This Hs3540 or ht3525 is not really great for my needs, it is however a very silent solution, if one does't need planing speeds I think it very good and effecient, the big pulley can be replaced for higher or lower rpm. but so is the motor and prop ofcourse.

The alien motor is much more powerfull and should be able to get to planing speeds but since it is 150kv a direct drive to a stock outboard motor is maybe better.

 

[penguintec]

Hi,

I am new to this forum.

I really like the Belt Drive system at the start, it looks like the quietest and most elegant.

Then it degenerates into a 5kWatt mounted the traditional way Horizontally..why ?.

I have one of those 5kWatts on an inboard I have built
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGdy8UBmBvs

Noisy, and only running at 1kWatt (16Volts, 50 Amps) in this boat which is fine.
I built the controller, it has one button control.

Planing; if you have a PUNT or a Flat bottom boat, it will plane no problems with one of those 5kWatt BLDCs. (PUNTs are almost always planing).

I also love the RC motor controller water proofed.

For ultimate quietness ?.
Think long , skinny, POD motor mounted on the bottom of your boat under water.
Anyone built one of these ?, I am. The details are so secret, I don't even know them all myself.

 

[Bazaki]

Very nice, an inboard on that small boat !

I never had the guts to do that to my new boat, but yours looks good.

My 10kw Golden motor was blowing mosfets at 18 fet 24fet and even 36 fet controllers. Now I have my Golden motor HPC 700 96v 560A controller.

I hope this will work.

With my 36 fet controller at 90V 200A the boat was like a tuned RC boat, also not very noisy.

If everything is working fine I want to water cool the motor and controller and then isolate for even less noise.

But only a thin layer of foam will probably not reduce a lot of noise.

The benefit of that inboard is that it doesnt look like a gasoline outboard like mine.

You plan to stay at 1 kw ? The motor can have so much more

 

[penguintec]

Hi,

Those 'Sine wave' controllers from Golden motor look good, I'd like to know how it goes.

I use 6 mosfets (eg 2 per phase), they are 200 amp mosfets AUIRLS3036-7P.

The power is controlled before the commutating mosfets by a separate DC to DC converter stage through a coil..
So the mosfets are being fed nice DC voltage, and not having to switch pwm.

It doesn't draw more than 80 amps ever because the current is being measured and controlled.
(Measuring the current with this nice integrated sensor ACS758).

1kWatt is good for this boat I think, it has a maximum speed, and after that it just hits a 'wall' pushes more water and consumes endless power, it never planes.
1kWatt I am not water cooling, drawing ~50 amps, at 16vols

The poor motor is only running at low power,
I would love to run it at 5kWatts on a fast boat...

 

[Bazaki]

I now have my outboard running with the 10KW Goldenmotor with the 96v 560A Controller HPC 700. 25 km/h and pretty silent.

It ran very well with 90V and 100A, I went full throttle for about 5 sec at 280 A Battery current. Than I had an hall sensor error.

There is a second wire for hall sensors, I connected this new wire for hall sensors and set the current a bit lower to max 200A battery current and 400A Phase current.

I hit the throttle to about 120A Battery current and dead again, also same message " hall sensor error "

Why should hall sensors go dead when asking more power ?

I hope they can be replaced easy.

Any idea's ?

 

[LockH]

Sorry Bazaki, no help here... But may I please come for a ride Skipper, on Version Two?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=47249

 

[Honk]

Very strange case....I've never had any hall sensor go bad in my motors.
The only thing I can think of is some kind of overvoltage killing the sensor.
The controller shall feed the sensors approx 5V and there must be a good overvoltage protection within the controller.
You can add a simple 100R series resistor with a parallel 5V1 tranzildiode to 0V. It will protect from any harmfull voltage spikes.
This should be mounted in series with the sensor 5V output from the controller.

Btw, you hit 25km/h...was this using your inflatable boat or some other boat?
What is the estimated weight of all things combined e'g you, the motor, batteripack, boat itself, extra gear?

25km/h is a great speed and being silent it's even better. Look forward to a video.

 

[Bazaki]

Pretty heavy !

80Kg for the inflatable 350 RIB, 52 kg for the 28s A123 5kwh batterypack, outboard complete about 35kg, me about 80kg = 247kg

I believe planing speed at about 18 kmh is about 100A and for 25 km/h it is 280A, but these number I have to measure again.

I have installed smart tabs, so the boat is easy at planing speed, but has more drag at higher speeds.

The 3 phase wires at 580A were very hot after only a few seconds, I had to make them longer, controller is inside the boat to get motor lighter and smaller.

I hope that this was the problem for the hall sensors.

Overvoltage for the hall sensors, well it is a stock motor and controller, the only way is the electro magnetic field, but if this can cause overvoltage?

 

[fechter]

I've seen hall sensors fail from over temperature. Most are only rated for 100C. It's possible the motor heated up enough to cause one to fail. A temperature sensor on the windings might be a good idea.

 

[Honk]

18km/h at 9000W (100Amps x 90V) sounds very power thirsty.....
I have an aluminum outboard and an old 8hp yamaha 2-stroke. With two people onboard we reach 18km/h as well.
8hp is approx 6000W output.

Total weight is 140kg boat (with wodden floor), 28kg motor, 12kg gasolin, two people 170kg, other stuff 20kg = 370kg
So we get 18km/h with 370kg weight at 6000W.....
Hmmmm.... sounds like 20-25km/h should be possible at 10000W depending on the right prop, hull type and planning capability.
Iv'e seen tests at 32km/h with two people onboard using modern 9.9hp outboards (7400W).

 

[John in CR]

It was a very long time ago, but I water skied behind a 7.5hp merc, and even dropped a ski and slalomed, though that was so slow on 1 that I hesitate to call it skiing.

 

[Bazaki]

Yes, I see kids planing with 5 hp outboards. But I think that a brand for example Yamaha put a sticker on an outboard with, let's say 9.9 HP and it produces about 11 hp at the prop.

My outboard has an input of 80v x 100a = 8kw . and with some thin wires ( testing ) some controller losses and motor losses, gearing losses, I have an output of about 6 hp at the prop I
think.

I believe Arlo at this forum had a dyno a few years ago, with 5 kw input was about 2.5 hp output at a Crystalyte HS motor I believe.

EV car, Fisker Karma, 402 hp according to their specs..... 230 Whp, saw it on youtube.