Need advise for the Cyclone 4.8 KW coaxial Motor...

[papagino]

See how the rear shock in the above post is almost vertical . many bicycles have shocks that are near horizontal .

Do you think you can design a swingarm ( that would bolt up to the em3ev.com EEB frame ? ...

With the / a big block motor ( lightingrods/GNG 3000w / Cyclone 3000w ) in front of and below the shock .

Move the lower part of the rear shock backwards and up with brackets coming up from the swingarm , with the shaft/cog on the motor located just outside the left side bracket . And make a small heat shield for the shock to route the heat from the motor around the shock, a coil over shock will be necessary a coil shock a good thing anyway air shocks are for lowering weight , a half pound is not so important on a high power e-bike.

Increase the wheelbase a little, and since those e-bike frames do not have a slack enough head angle , make the shock bracket so it slackens the head angle about 1.5-2.5 degrees .

Well, it is already available for the Cyclone coaxial motor as below:


You can actually buy just the Chain drive Coaxial Motor Kit with Swingarm for Enduro e bike frame include: Coaxial motor, 32T, bluetooth programmable controller, throttle, crank set and Swingarm for $649 here: http://www.cyclone-tw.com/Coaxial.html

 

[papagino]

See how the rear shock in the above post is almost vertical . many bicycles have shocks that are near horizontal .

Do you think you can design a swingarm ( that would bolt up to the em3ev.com EEB frame ? ...

With the / a big block motor ( lightingrods/GNG 3000w / Cyclone 3000w ) in front of and below the shock .

Move the lower part of the rear shock backwards and up with brackets coming up from the swingarm , with the shaft/cog on the motor located just outside the left side bracket . And make a small heat shield for the shock to route the heat from the motor around the shock, a coil over shock will be necessary a coil shock a good thing anyway air shocks are for lowering weight , a half pound is not so important on a high power e-bike.

Increase the wheelbase a little, and since those e-bike frames do not have a slack enough head angle , make the shock bracket so it slackens the head angle about 1.5-2.5 degrees .

... also, you can change the geometry of the bike by using a shorter rear shock, in my case, I use 190mm instead of 220mm, this changed the fork angle considerably. There is also 3 holes for the top mount for the rear shock, so you can adjust the angle for the swingarm to your licking. I am using 17" motorbike rims, giving it a motocross style look. My bike is lower than if I was using 26" or bigger bicycle wheel, that way, I can raise the seat post so I have proper legs extension for pedaling while still be able to place both of my feet flat on the ground when at a stop...

 

[papagino]

Here is my existing ebike in action....
https://youtu.be/N3TJ9dg9GLA
[youtube]N3TJ9dg9GLA[/youtube]

 

[Grantmac]

Given all your requirements I'd say either the LR BB or else a different frame.
Personally I'd go option 2.

 

[papagino]

Given all your requirements I'd say either the LR BB or else a different frame.
Personally I'd go option 2.

Yep, I made my mind, I going with the Bafang BBSHD with external controller, probably Kelly KLS7212S With 750C display.
That way, I can tune the motor for either power or extended range. With a 9 Speed 11-50T cassette, I will be able to pedal along easily at 40km/h using the Cruise Control. I don't need or ever use PAS, so problem solved.

I would never change this frame for something else, I need the rigidity for off-road ridding...

I used to have the Magic Pie 5 mounted on a full suspension mountain bike on my first built and it would twist and shake at higher speed because of the added weight of the motor and battery. This is the main reason why I got the EEB Enduro Frame, it is solid and can take lots of abuse.


Cheers
Dan

 

[Tommm]

Sadly the kellys don't have pas, so you will have to take that into account when swapping controllers (still worth the upgrade imho).

 

[Grantmac]

The Kelly won't drive the BBSHD very well (if at all). You need a BAC800 if going external and plan to let it spin if pushing any real watts.

I was referring to a much more rigid and better engineered frame than the EEB. Specifically a Boxxbike. They offer what you're after.

 

[papagino]

Sadly the kellys don't have pas, so you will have to take that into account when swapping controllers (still worth the upgrade imho).

I am aware that Kelly's don't have PAS... I never used PAS, it wasn't even activated in my previous builds, I use cruise control instead.
I value Range over Power, I currently do about 80km on my enduro, if I can increase the range with the Bafang in eco mode to possibly 100km running at maybe at 15 - 20 Amps max, that would put a big smile on my face... If I need more power, just need to flip the 3 speeds switch and youpieeee...

Cheers
Dan

 

[papagino]

The Kelly won't drive the BBSHD very well (if at all). You need a BAC800 if going external and plan to let it spin if pushing any real watts.

I am currently in contact with Kelly's support...
I believe you can run Bafang BBSHD with a Kelly Controller, but you need to supply the HALL sensors with 12V instead of the normal 5V as shown in this video:
[youtube]YG9e-0WucKc[/youtube]

Thanks for your inputs...
Cheers
Dan

 

[Grantmac]

Keep in mind you will not be pedaling with the BBSHD, they need to really spin to move a heavy bike.

 

[Tommm]

15-20A with light pedaling sounds like ~38-42kmh. Is that the speed you are looking for?
That is not quite eco for the bafang as the original controller is 30A max.

 

[papagino]

15-20A with light pedaling sounds like ~38-42kmh. Is that the speed you are looking for?
That is not quite eco for the bafang as the original controller is 30A max.

Yes, 15-20A (or maybe 10-15A) would be for long range, Lo speed... TBD
I am aware of the Bafang controller being 30A... so, if I need power, I can crank up the amps no problem with an external controller all the way to 40-50 Amps if needed. I may use a CA-3 for the display, as you can set-up a 3 speed switch to change the Power instead of Speed paired with a digital up/down buttons to change max speeds...

My current Magic Pie 5 running at 62V max takes around 12-15Amps to maintain the max speed of 47km/h with some pedaling, so I expect that the Bafang would do about the same at that amperage with a 9 speed 11-50T freewheel. My wheels are small, 17" motorcycle wheels (equivalent of a 20" BMX bicycle wheel), so this requires less power to spin compare to a 26" or bigger bicycle wheel...

Still waiting from Kelly's replies to see if their controller can do what I want...


...Work in progress

Cheers

 

[papagino]

I would get a 9 speed 11-46 or 11-50 from aliexpress. The lesser speed chains are thicker and better for ebike use. I have 2000km in a kmc x93 $15 chain now, it is not even the stronger ebike kmc e9 9 speed chain! Also look into a steel freehub body. Also a strong hub, a ratchet sytle hub instead of a pawl one. I destroyed a pawl hub already, it was slipping from day one.

Hey Tommm, I found a 9 speed 11-50T cassette on aliexpress, but what 9 speed rear derailleur can I use with it? I can't find one that would work with this cassette?

Thanks for your help
Cheers

 

[Tommm]

I would get a 9 speed 11-46 or 11-50 from aliexpress. The lesser speed chains are thicker and better for ebike use. I have 2000km in a kmc x93 $15 chain now, it is not even the stronger ebike kmc e9 9 speed chain! Also look into a steel freehub body. Also a strong hub, a ratchet sytle hub instead of a pawl one. I destroyed a pawl hub already, it was slipping from day one.

Hey Tommm, I found a 9 speed 11-50T cassette on aliexpress, but what 9 speed rear derailleur can I use with it? I can't find one that would work with this cassette?

Thanks for your help
Cheers

Get the 11-46 one(not 11-42), it is lighter and can be used without a derallieur hanger extender depending on frame with the m6000 GS(not SGS) designed for 42t.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32852063947.html
You will need a sram 9 speed shifter.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sram-X5-...ter-00-7015-198-010-Bike-Bicycle/293141529234
There is also one with a gear display, called s500. That is the older version, it works the same.

I have two bikes set up the exact same way(46t and 50t with extender). They work quite well.

 

[papagino]

I would get a 9 speed 11-46 or 11-50 from aliexpress. The lesser speed chains are thicker and better for ebike use. I have 2000km in a kmc x93 $15 chain now, it is not even the stronger ebike kmc e9 9 speed chain! Also look into a steel freehub body. Also a strong hub, a ratchet sytle hub instead of a pawl one. I destroyed a pawl hub already, it was slipping from day one.

Hey Tommm, I found a 9 speed 11-50T cassette on aliexpress, but what 9 speed rear derailleur can I use with it? I can't find one that would work with this cassette?

Thanks for your help
Cheers

Get the 11-46 one(not 11-42), it is lighter and can be used without a derallieur hanger extender depending on frame with the m6000 GS(not SGS) designed for 42t.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32852063947.html
You will need a sram 9 speed shifter.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sram-X5-...ter-00-7015-198-010-Bike-Bicycle/293141529234
There is also one with a gear display, called s500. That is the older version, it works the same.

I have two bikes set up the exact same way(46t and 50t with extender). They work quite well.

Ok, so it is a 10 speed rear derailleur with a 9 speed shifter...

Thanks for your feedback
Cheers

 

[Tommm]

Ok, so it is a 10 speed rear derailleur with a 9 speed shifter...

Thanks for your feedback
Cheers

It is in this specific combination that is known to work, but it is 90% likely that it will not work with any random 9 speed shifter paired with any random 10 speed derailleur.

 

[papagino]

Ok, so it is a 10 speed rear derailleur with a 9 speed shifter...

Thanks for your feedback
Cheers

It is in this specific combination that is known to work, but it is 90% likely that it will not work with any random 9 speed shifter paired with any random 10 speed derailleur.

Ok, I am a bit confused, do I need the long cage (SGS 10-Speed) or medium cage (GS 11-Speed)?

Shimano parts number on their website is as follow:


RD-M6000-SGS SHIMANO DEORE - Rear Derailleur - Long Cage - SHIMANO SHADOW RD+ - 10-speed
RD-M8000-GS SHIMANO DEORE XT - Rear Derailleur - Medium Cage - SHIMANO SHADOW RD+ - 11-speed


Also, I would prefer the Shimano Alivio M4000 RAPIDFIRE PLUS Shift Lever 9 speed as you can also use either your index or thumb to shift, it should also work I guess...


Thanks again for your inputs...

 

[Tommm]

Ok, so it is a 10 speed rear derailleur with a 9 speed shifter...

Thanks for your feedback
Cheers

It is in this specific combination that is known to work, but it is 90% likely that it will not work with any random 9 speed shifter paired with any random 10 speed derailleur.

Ok, I am a bit confused, do I need the long cage (SGS 10-Speed) or medium cage (GS 11-Speed)?

Shimano parts number on their website is as follow:


RD-M6000-SGS SHIMANO DEORE - Rear Derailleur - Long Cage - SHIMANO SHADOW RD+ - 10-speed
RD-M8000-GS SHIMANO DEORE XT - Rear Derailleur - Medium Cage - SHIMANO SHADOW RD+ - 11-speed


Also, I would prefer the Shimano Alivio M4000 RAPIDFIRE PLUS Shift Lever 9 speed as you can also use either your index or thumb to shift, it should also work I guess...


Thanks again for your inputs...

Those are completely different devices. The aliexpress link has them, cheapest in the world. Select GS from the two options, and you are set.
RD-M6000-GS
https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/deore-m6000/RD-M6000-GS.html

 

[ScooterMan101]

Seems to be some confusion here ,

He is saying to get the 10 speed derailleur , this is probably because the 9 and 10 speed chains are so close, but the 11 speed chains are not compatible with 9 / 10 speed derailleurs .

Other confusion here is long or medium cage, a general rule is that the more teeth you have on the rear cassette cogs the longer the cage you need on a derailleur. ( Plus a longer B screw helps as well )

Not sure why Tommm is saying the short cage when you will be having such large cogs on the cassette ?

 

[Tommm]

No confusion as long as you shop what I linked.
He linked devices that weren't in the links, not sure why. These two work togeather because sram was still doing 1:1 pull ratio(they aren't anymore) and at the same time shimano had just switched to it(they weren't before). It probably has already changed again for new gropsets.

GS is called medium cage because it is 42t and not 46 or 50 rated from the factory, but it is the biggest they have in 10 speed. It will work upto 46t anyway depending on frame/hanger.

No one cares about these marketing words anyway. If you buy what I linked it will most likely work, if you experiment it might, or might not. That is all.

 

[papagino]

Seems to be some confusion here ,

He is saying to get the 10 speed derailleur , this is probably because the 9 and 10 speed chains are so close, but the 11 speed chains are not compatible with 9 / 10 speed derailleurs .

Other confusion here is long or medium cage, a general rule is that the more teeth you have on the rear cassette cogs the longer the cage you need on a derailleur. ( Plus a longer B screw helps as well )

Not sure why Tommm is saying the short cage when you will be having such large cogs on the cassette ?

Tommm is right, the RD-M8000-GS SHIMANO DEORE XT - Rear Derailleur - Medium Cage - SHIMANO SHADOW RD+ - 10-speed
is the only Derailleur that will do 42T, the RD-M6000-SGS will only do 36T.

However, I will try to pair it with the Shimano Alivio M4000 RAPIDFIRE PLUS Shift Lever 9 speed instead of the Sram X5 9 Speed Rear Black Trigger Gear Shifter because you can use both your index and thumb fingers to change gears.

Hopefully, It will work...

 

[Legna199111]

See how the rear shock in the above post is almost vertical . many bicycles have shocks that are near horizontal .

Do you think you can design a swingarm ( that would bolt up to the em3ev.com EEB frame ? ...

With the / a big block motor ( lightingrods/GNG 3000w / Cyclone 3000w ) in front of and below the shock .

Move the lower part of the rear shock backwards and up with brackets coming up from the swingarm , with the shaft/cog on the motor located just outside the left side bracket . And make a small heat shield for the shock to route the heat from the motor around the shock, a coil over shock will be necessary a coil shock a good thing anyway air shocks are for lowering weight , a half pound is not so important on a high power e-bike.

Increase the wheelbase a little, and since those e-bike frames do not have a slack enough head angle , make the shock bracket so it slackens the head angle about 1.5-2.5 degrees .

Well, it is already available for the Cyclone coaxial motor as below:
Cyclone coaxial.jpg

You can actually buy just the Chain drive Coaxial Motor Kit with Swingarm for Enduro e bike frame include: Coaxial motor, 32T, bluetooth programmable controller, throttle, crank set and Swingarm for $649 here: http://www.cyclone-tw.com/Coaxial.html

Anyone try this yet I've been looking all over this website if anyone has tried the cyclone coaxial kit! And if there's any mad man whose over volted I was thinking going with sabvoton 96080 and 29ers plus in the front 27.5 plus in the back with lifepo4 20 ah cells!!!

 

[Tommm]

Anyone try this yet I've been looking all over this website if anyone has tried the cyclone coaxial kit! And if there's any mad man whose over volted I was thinking going with sabvoton 96080 and 29ers plus in the front 27.5 plus in the back with lifepo4 20 ah cells!!!

What do you mean kit? I have the bike with that motor in it. I think sabvoton 72080 would be a better fit, with temp sensors inside. Either 72v+field weakening, or 80-86v with no field weakening. Anything above and it would likely fall apart.

 

[papagino]

Anyone try this yet I've been looking all over this website if anyone has tried the cyclone coaxial kit! And if there's any mad man whose over volted I was thinking going with sabvoton 96080 and 29ers plus in the front 27.5 plus in the back with lifepo4 20 ah cells!!!

What do you mean kit? I have the bike with that motor in it. I think sabvoton 72080 would be a better fit, with temp sensors inside. Either 72v+field weakening, or 80-86v with no field weakening. Anything above and it would likely fall apart.

"By the kit", he mean just the Swingarm with the Cyclone for $600-$650 to go with your existing EEB Enduro Ebike Frame... Not the complete bike.

 

[Tommm]

Anyone try this yet I've been looking all over this website if anyone has tried the cyclone coaxial kit! And if there's any mad man whose over volted I was thinking going with sabvoton 96080 and 29ers plus in the front 27.5 plus in the back with lifepo4 20 ah cells!!!

What do you mean kit? I have the bike with that motor in it. I think sabvoton 72080 would be a better fit, with temp sensors inside. Either 72v+field weakening, or 80-86v with no field weakening. Anything above and it would likely fall apart.

"By the kit", he mean just the Swingarm with the Cyclone for $600-$650 to go with your existing EEB Enduro Ebike Frame... Not the complete bike.

He has:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=99870&sid=e869b6fef4c5c57f07207569ea17b6d4&start=25#p1508763