new eZip motor

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. bum wheel.

I went thru the trouble of reinstalling the motor on the 24" cargo bike again for a third time this week and it was for nothing. This time I drilled the holes in the brackets farther apart then before for more room for adjustment left and right without the bolts hitting against the frame. It looked as it was perfect but after several rotations the chain popped off. Further inspection and I found that the wheel bearings are shot and I suspect that some of the bolts in the spoke sprocket may be loose.

The wheel and sprocket are total pieces of shit and my motor mounting skills are not the cause of this calamity. I also have 100% proof of this in the rear Currie wheel which I went to Home Depot with yesterday. I spent $120 for the straight perfect wheel which spins perfect and the chain is still as tight as it was when I mounted it. Not too tight however but perfect. My home made brackets work and mounting skills are exceptional.

I do not know what I will do next. however am thinking about scraping the 24" cargo bike. If there was a 100 foot cliff nearby I would throw it over. I should not feel that way as the wheel was used anyway and two years ago when I first built it I took several videos. It could just be basic wear and tear on the wheel. That wheel went 29 mph not too long ago and up Congress st. hill when I smoked the alligator clips.

The thing now is do I have a good enough wheel to even bother transferring the 60 tooth spoke sprocket to ? If not do I want to buy a brand new one. That would be a NO absolutely not. I spent enough $$$ on e bikes. I got bills to pay and a limited income. Also installing a spoke sprocket even on a good wheel is a pain in the a s s. It requires a lot of adjusting to get it to spin good enough to keep the chain on. Several hours at least and I am sick and tired of getting my hands dirty. All that black grease don't wash off and takes several days for clean hands again. Everything I touch has black marks on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEqzPOZncDU&feature=youtu.be


The fix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDiKyA8ATr4&feature=youtu.be

When not using a derailleur the freewheel will work better for a pedal chain. Hopefully it will stay on if I can get it tight enough. I am going to Wall-Mart to get some soap that has the sand like stuff in it like the auto mechanics use. Hopefully I will have enough ambition at some point in time to switch the 60 tooth spoke sprocket. No more clackety clack if I get it done. Thing is though I am lazy. Thanks.

LC out.

I hired a kid to change the sprocket to the other wheel for $10. The kid is 15 with no job and school is out so it should help him out. Hopefully it will be done tonight or tomorrow. It will also give him experience turning a wrench. I am trying to give him things positive to do to keep him out of trouble.

Also just got off the phone with Johnny who wanted the Schwinn and I told him I will give him the Cleer Creek Schwinn but he needs a rear motor as he plans on using the bike for dirt trails and mud and I said he needs to order a rear hub motor as the front motor will spin out on him and he could get hurt.

The front motor Sunder sent I will put on the front of the Haro V3 with the best torque arms I can find and then a 1,500 watt 48 volt hub motor will go on the back. I will use a 60 volt brush less 80 to 100 amp controller and build a custom battery pack for it. Total power will = 1,875W - rear + 1,250W front = 3,125 watts.

Can someone please let me know if it will work with a single thumb throttle. Also tell me how many of these I will need and how you think it will work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pxq4Au5iuc#t=3.225358

http://vruzend.com/

I have never attempted anything like this. Also I do not want to go much past 60 volts as to NOT damage either 48 volt hub motor. I know that fully charged the voltage is much higher than when run for awhile so I do not want the total voltage fully charged to exceed 60 volts by a lot but also do not want a low LVC cuttoff to happen either so I need to know the exact specifications and also the BMS and 60 volt charger I will need. Please let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYDF1Q9vaGM

I know I have been warned about high power front hub motors but the 60 volts is only 250 watts more than the 48 volts I am used to for a front motor and also it is not something that has never been done as this video shows. There are also many more dual hub motor videos on youtube.

This will be my last e bike build ever. The other e bikes I am simply maintaining . The only future build after this dual hub motor Haro will be the FX project which will require a beefed up 125 cc dirt bike frame or a build almost like the original Death bike. That could take up to five years with my limited budget but will be saving up for it once I finish the Haro V3. Thanks and please post when you can.

LC out.

 

[Sunder]

Are you building an 18650 based battery? You'll get both quality and safety from those if you use good cells, but they're a pricey way to go for someone on your budget. Have you thought about seeing if there are battery recycling centres near you, getting old laptop batteries, breaking them apart for cheap cells, testing them, matching them for quality, and building packs out of that? For someone who has a lot of time on their hands, this can be a way to make some money.

Quite often, laptop batteries are thrown out because one or two cell in a 9 or 12 cell pack go bad, leaving you quite a few good cells in a "dead" battery. If you use the Vruzend kits, your batteries will look pretty professional, you won't need to worry about bad quality solder or spot welds, and you can probably sell them on ebay for a profit.

On another note entirely, I'm getting the itch to build again, but I should probably hold off, since it's only just over a year until I move to the UK. My thoughts are actually mid-drive with a belt rather than a chain, and continuous internal hub gearing, rather than discrete gear derailleurs. I want to build a semi-stealthy, very low maintenance commute bike, so probably internally routed cables, and I'm hoping to find a frame with a top tube large enough to fit around 10ah of battery. I'm thinking mid range power - 500w to 750w. It's not much, but with a proper gearing system, would have a better top speed and hill climbing ability than most direct drives >1000w.

 

[latecurtis]

Yes.

Thanks for posting.

I got the variable controllers in the mail today. I will need to install one of them on the 24" cargo bike tonight.

I will post a video when it is up and running. Thanks.

LC out.

It has a flat tire. I am going to the store to get a tube. The motor seems to be mounted good. It was not easy as the frame was a little bent. I think I may have took the hammer to it when I was mad a few days ago.
I have both controllers still in the boxes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7puBdj-_Qk

I may as well pick up a tube for the Schwinn also. The thing is though I will not be able to put the front motor from the Schwinn on the front of the Haro V3 as the hub motor is not equipped for disk brakes. This creates a problem as I really do not want to give up on the disk brakes. I don't know if Johnny still wants to buy the Schwinn anyway. I told him to just get a rear hub motor for it and I would give him the bike. I have other bikes I can put the front hub motor on but I wanted two motors on the Haro. I guess I can set it up for regular brakes. U brakes are good and I can use forks from a different bike I guess. It will also have rear brakes so should work.

It is not a bike I plan on making emergency stops with that bike anyway. It will not be going 40+ mph unless there is open road which is smooth will little traffic and good vision far ahead. Around town I will run my chain drive sidewalk specials. Thanks for posting.

Ok. My 24" cargo bike is back together and no clacketdy clack. . The wheel spins straight and the new variable controller is hooked up. Also the new good year inner tube is in the back tire for no more flats hopefully. The rubber is 80% thicker than a standard tube and it is noticeable. There is a 26" one in the Currie wheel. I hooked up the 16.0 - 6S pack and tested it out but the true test will be tomorrow. I unhooked the old rusted brake caliper and put a newer shiny one up and a metal brake lever to replace the cheap plastic one but failed miserably with the cable. It was impossible to remove the cable without cutting it and once cut almost impossible to make it work again. Installing the caliper and brake lever is easy. The cable I have never been able to do and am heading to Doug's tomorrow as soon as I do a test run and video.

I have decided to NOT order more SLAs or that 36 volt Lion pack DA posted. The reason is I can get up to 5 miles round trip and 15 mph out of the LiPo pack I got and can also use the 10.0 - 6S pack I have been running for the Currie. 15 mph is fast enough for a cargo bike and the variable controller will run 44 volts LiPo if I want it to but I have a 48 volt controller also which will work with a waterproof thumb throttle. That will be the next step is a waterproof bike.
I am going to stick with 22 or 44 volt LiPo and may never use my 36 volt controllers. For the Haro V3 I might build a pack out of those 18650 cells for 60 volts but otherwise I am either running 6S or 12S LiPo as it is so easy to hook up and charge. Also I have two 6S chargers so it just makes more sense.

Dan sent me a bunch of bullets awhile back and a couple brush-less controllers and some heavy gauge wire. I really appreciate it also as eventually everything will be put to use but for now the bullets have allowed me to convert all my controllers to plug and play. The motor and power wires all plug in and I can switch controllers in about 5 minutes. Even out on the road with electrical tape , scissors and zip ties I can switch from the variable controller to a 36 or 48 volt regular controller and just plug in my thumb throttle. Eventually I will be experimenting with those alien power RC motors which are around 100 KV. The brush-less controllers will be put to use then and as for the heavy gauge wire I may need that for the FX project sometime down the road. Thanks again Dan.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

I took the 24" cargo bike for a ride last night. When I was charging the 16.0 pack. (two 8.0 packs in parallel) I noticed a big voltage difference in the cells. The charger was on balance charge as I always do and one of the cells went as high as 4.24 volts and another was only 4.13 volts. I ran the charger as long as possible to fix it but ended up hooking it to the balancer before running it and got the cells from 3.16 to 3.19 and now they are what is in the picture.

I lost the key to the lock for the cash box and would have to drill it to open and do not want to risk puncturing one of the 8.0 packs to separate them so am hoping if I run them down to about 3.6 volts and fully balance charge at a lower amp it might work better. I was charging at 3 amps last night and will try it at 2 amps tonight after I run them hard and do a video.

Also I think the chain is rubbing against the tire. However it reaches maximum speed for 22 volts which is around 15 mph and seems to rub more at low speed than at 15 mph. Unfortunately since it is a spoke sprocket I do not see a way to fix that problem so it seems that I may have to deal with it for a while. The only possible fix is a lower profile tire maybe.

Anyway I did not drink at all last night and am up early so I have the entire day if it don't rain to play around with this thing and see what is going on here. I will try to mount the camera so that I can see exactly what is going on with the chain. It appears I lost the magnet that was in the wheel so may have to take one off the 20" dual motor cargo bike. We already know that will go 20 mph which is 95% of it's gearing. I guess my goal is since I failed miserably so far to build a really fast e bike that the best I can do is make the ones I have more reliable.

As we all know from the videos the 20" cargo bike with the 36 volt motor on the front and the 24 volt motor on the rear will do 20 mph easily with 24 volts and 500 watts going to each motor. However 36 volts to each motor would gear it for about 30 mph and 48 volts to each motor close to 40 mph. :lol: :lol: The thing is it would turn a perfect reliable heavy hauler cargo bike into a rolling death-trap and most likely burn out the 24 volt motor on the back. However if I were to replace the 24 volt motor with a 36 volt 800 watt motor and 56 tooth spoke sprocket like is on the front instead of cheap #25 chain and 80 tooth wheel sprocket it would make it a little safer but why do all that when it is reliable and goes up almost any hill as it is.

That is why I will probably wait and build the Haro. Even though I have two 36 volt controllers I could use I do not have 36 volt batteries and why go thru all that to make the 20" dual motor bike go 30 mph when I could just hook up 44 volts to the Currie or the Schwinn and go close to or 30 mph. It would make no sense so I will be ordering a 48 volt 1,500 watt motor for back the Haro V3. I may still put the motor Sunder sent me on the front however I do not think I will be running it at 60 volts.

It will cost me a lot of extra $$$ to do that for an extra 6 or 7 mph. It should go 35 mph easily with two hub motors and 48 volt controllers. Also with two motors it should reach 35 mph quicker than one hub motor. A 60 volt 80 or 100 amp controller to run both motors in parallel will be expensive and I will have to make a custom battery out of 16850 cells with a BMS and order a 60 volt charger. If I keep it at 48 volts with two 48 volt controllers I can simply order two new 16.0 or 20.0 multi-star - 6S LiPo packs and call it a day. I should be able to run two 48 volt controllers with 2,500 watts total. Thanks for posting and I shall have a video or two up today.

I was thinking while at Stewerts having my morning coffee what would happen if I were to put dual 48 volt 1,000 watt Unite motors on the back of the Haro V3 and gear them for 40 mph. Since I already put dual 24 volt 280 watt motors on the front of the Diamond Back awhile back there is no doubt that it can be done and I am capable of doing it. I also realize that getting the chain and sprockets to line up wont be as hard as with a single motor as two motors will also act as a chain tensioner simply by moving them apart. I can mount them to a rear rack seperatley and to tighten the chain simply move them apart and tighten down the brackets.

The only issue I see is a controller. I doubt separate 48 volt controllers could work and the way I made it work with the 24 volt motors was to hook them in series to a 36 volt controller. For 2 kilowatts I need to hook two 48 volt motors in parallel and will need an 80 to 100 amp brushed controller. I believe the variable controller is rated for 2 kilowatts but do not think it would be a good idea to push that much power thru it. I also would prefer a single thumb throttle when going 40 mph. I have looked and do not see a 48 volt brush controller rated at 80 to 100 amps. If anyone knows of one please let me know. Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJz_CHVLmgU&feature=youtu.be

Ok. It is obvious that the chain is rubbing against the tire. However it does not seem to effect the performance much. It still will haul cargo and be safe and reliable once I get the front brake cable hooked up. It definitely will not be my main ride. That is why I rebuilt the Currie. I just need to run the Currie at 44 volts though for better performance.

As far as I am concerned once I get the 24" cargo bike to Doug's and get the front brake hooked up it is a finished project. If in the future I need to change the tire or motor sprocket then I will see if a different rear tire will solve the rubbing issue. I will be taking one more video once I get the brake hooked up but without the speedo. The speedo can go on the Currie for when I get 44 volts to the gear reduction motor to see what it has got. We all know from previous videos that the 24" cargo bike goes approx. 15 mph at 22V , approx 20 mph at 36V and tops out at 29 mph at 44V. I actually showed it in three separate videos so there is no need for a speedo on the 24" cargo bike anymore. thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkntINivduE&feature=youtu.be


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wW0bu9u1fE&feature=youtu.be

Ok. I got the speedo working with the magnet from the 20" bike.
LC out.

 

[Sunder]

Most cash boxes have very simple locks. They're easy to pick. Easier with a lock picking kit, but still possible with paperclips or hair pins.

[youtube]cjuT_63Ioig[/youtube]

Have you considered using a Belt drive rather than a chain drive?

They are designed to not need a tensioner (not that you currently use one), and slip less than a roller chain. They are currently very pricey, but for eBikes, they last about 7-10 times longer, as efficient, and for your application, probably more reliable and stable.

 

[latecurtis]

I would love to try a belt drive. In fact the FX motor is a belt drive and if it will work for a 60 horsepower electric motor it surely would work for a 1 to 3 horsepower application with two Unite motors. I would need to know where to order those parts. I will need that information for the FX motor eventually anyway as I have been asking around for 125 cc or 250 cc dirt bike frames. I am going to need some help building the East cost Death bike which is what I will call it as the original Death bike was out on the west coast I believe.

For now though the 24" cargo bike is functioning. I rode it several times yesterday. I am also keeping an eye on the 16.0 - 6S pack. It sat for awhile awhile the 24" cargo bike was down so could be the cause. What I will do is attempt to balance charge at a lower amp to see if that works and if it don't work use the balancer to make the cells closer in voltage before running it. I was never good at picking locks. Cash boxes are cheap and was planning on disposing of the packs and the box they are in when they are done.

I am going to make a decision how to make the Haro V3 a 40 mph bike. I really need to build it anyway to get used to higher speed e bikes. it would be insane to jump from e bikes that go < 30 mph to a Death bike which will go > 70 mph.
Building a 40 or 45 mph bike and getting used to the acceleration and handling could keep me safe when I finally do build a Death bike. For example if The Haro V3 tops out at 50 going down a very slight hill perhaps the controller on the Death bike can be programmed to top out at 60 mph going down the same slight decline. A steep hill would not have the same effect as a slight decline as then gravity would be the main force driving the bike forwards not the power going to the wheels. I am concerned how the bike will handle during forwards acceleration not coasting down a steep hill as the laws of physics are not the same.

I am very undecided what my next build will be. A very low profile inconspicuous. https://www.google.com/search?q=inconspicuous&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS734US734&oq=inconspicious&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.7808j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
E bike push trailer is something I have wanted to do for awhile. Instead of a rear cargo rack I could haul about the same amount as a small milk crate but not a big one. I want it to look totally normal and factory but close to the rear wheel not a few feet away like some. I want is to look more like an extension of the frame instead of a separate unit which should also minimize the chance of a jacknife disaster at 40+ mph.

The 1,500 watt hub motor would also be a possibility for the Haro but a push trailor would work for any non electric bike and since I have been getting so many bikes (just picked up a decent Huffy mountain bike last night for $10) The kid swears it is not stolen he just needed the money. I am not even riding it. I bought it for my friend downstairs to go to the hospital this morning to see his wife as she had chest pains and they are keeping her for a few days and he knows the kid who sold me the bike.

The push trailer would work for any of my frames hanging on the wall. The 26" Dimond Back outlook which is 90s vintage and the Columbia. Please let me know what you think about a custom super low profile push tailor capable of 40+ speed. Thanks for posting.

LC out.

 

[BCBeaver]

this link not that one

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/36vo10mo.html

I've got one of those on my electric chopper, I've put 70A at 36V through it briefly. It has a thermal trip in it so it doesn't cook. Riding home in 35°Celcuis, uphill for 4km, pulling 40A (I programmed my controller to 40A max) recently it tripped close to the top of the hill. It was smoking hot, after it cooled off it showed no signs of stress. I've heard it is capable of handling 48V so I'm looking for a new battery that can put out 40A. . If you can find one it's a great motor.

 

[latecurtis]

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/24-volt-900-watt-electric-motor-11-tooth-chain-sprocket.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw2s_MBRA5EiwAmWIac4tg4KQH_H4OJIG4Vk41I5d1t9XVArWTyrc8mX7xDp2pOOvEZeChzhoC8RsQAvD_BwE

Your motor don't exist. Was discontinued about 4 years now I think.

That motor however if ran at 36 volts could do 1350 watts. Two motors 2700 watts.

I am going to check rpm now for wheel size at 45 mph.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Gear reduction motor.

Not sure if the 750 watt (1HP) gear reduction motor I hooked my Currie up with is still available but I highly recommend it. I took it down to City Hall for an appointment with my disability counselor and had no trouble going back up the hills.
Gearing is only 13 mph on the flat at 22V and 500 watts but it steady progressed up the two small hills and the motor was barley warm. I checked it three different times on the 1 mile + trip back. The front brakes are also working good and had no trouble stopping the bike on the way down there.

I check the chain every so often and is still as tight as the original install a few weeks ago. The 24" cargo bike has a long way to go to run as good as the Currie. It has no problem up those hills even though is geared slightly higher at 16.5 mph at 24V vs 13.5 mph with the gear reduction motor. I will need a lower profile tire to keep the chain from rubbing or will need to reinstall the spoke sprocket with extra washers for chain clearance with the tire and will need a much better brake job that the job the old guy who collects cans did last night.

It is why the gear reduction motor is one of the best chain drive motors I have bought. Instead of a 56 or 60 tooth sprocket on a 20" wheel I can run any size wheel up to 29" if I want with a freewheel. Yes that makes total sense. However I will be taking the 24" cargo bike to Doug's to get a better brake job. As far as the chain rubbing against the tire NO ! I am not fixing it now. I can live with it for short trips to haul cargo at least for awhile unless it gets worse. I wont be putting anything more than 22V to it though even though it seems to run better at higher speeds. However I would like to run the Currie with the gear reduction motor at 44V.

However a second 10.0 - 6S pack like I am running will run $80 off of e bay. Then I have a used one and a new one which is a miss match.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172648851568?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I clicked on DA's. old link and they are still available. I only want one though not two. I may buy a second next month if they are good. It is cheaper than spending $160 on two 6-S - 10.0 LiPo packs even with a 36 Volt charger. The Currie will do around 20 mph I believe which is federal limit and will be able to take bigger hills than is capable of now.

Just got off the phone with Doug. I am going to get my brake fixed right. He did the Currie which stops on a dime.


Brake is hooked up now and went down a decent size hill with it on the way back. I ran the 10.0 - 6S pack there as it was at 3.85 V after the downtown trip and used the 16.0 - 6S pack which I took off the charger around 4.14V per cell for the trip back. The 10.0 pack was down to 3.74V when I got back and is charging now and the 16.0 - 6S pack at 3.85 volts. The picture below is the brake job done by the can guy. I will take a picture of Doug's work tomorrow in the daylight which is what a bike shop would do and only cost me $12.

I will be going back there tomorrow as he has a decent Schwinn I will be trading a GT for and extra tires and rims. It could be the new home for the Hub motor on the Clear Creek as I am giving that to Johnny when he orders a rear hub motor and will put the motor Sunder sent on the other Schwinn for myself. I am not sure what motor will be going on the Haro V3. Doug says the Haro is aluminum and says not to put a fast motor on it. The Schwinn he has I am trading the GT for is Cromoly so when I get it here I will see which bike I should put the hub motor on. Maybe you guys can help me out with that.

My other question is if I get the 36 volt Lion pack at what voltage do I stop at and recharge without damage to the battery and how far will it go ? Please let me know before ordering them for the Currie. Thanks.

LC out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Imperial-Electric-Permanent-Magnet-DC-Motor-Model-P66LR006-36V-3-6HP-/192280564776?hash=item2cc4d09428:g:XJIAAOSw4TNZleED

Ok it is back. They had these awhile ago and now the vendor has more. I have to ask a really stupid question. Where do I get a 36 volt 100 amp brush controller ? It is a brush motor right ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-1500W-Direct-Drive-REAR-700C-Hub-Motor-with-Controller-ebikeling-/142471420955?hash=item212bf55c1b:gZMAAOSwM5RZi4Te

And then there is this. Where are the power wires though ? If they are in that wire harness they look to not be very heavy gauge ? Wonder if that is for real. I am basically looking to build something that will haul ass. :lol:

 

[latecurtis]

As The Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. 40 mph

I doubt a 1,500 watt hub motor will reach 40 mph with 44V of LiPo. That means I would need 60 volts which requires a 60 volt controller also.

I am not sure what is going on the Haro V3 then. The Imperial electric motor could reach 50 mph but where do I find a 100 amp brush controller ?

I have made a decision due to a lack of parts I need to build a fast bike I will have to use what I know will work and what parts I know I can easily order. I am getting a bike from Doug which is a dual suspension mountain bike frame and will be putting a Unite 48 volt 1,000 watt motor on the front and the back with two 1,000 watt brush controllers and since I have one already I will only need to order one. Thanks and Please post when you can.

LC out.

 

[DrkAngel]

I guess you will have to dump yourself on your face a few times before you can appreciate how easy it will be to lose front traction with a powerful front motor.
Combine this with a powerful rear motor that removes nearly all weight from the the front end under acceleration ...

... even a 250w motor could spin the front wheel ...

 

[latecurtis]

http://prntscr.com/gb05zx

I would rather just order this motor for the back with no motor on the front but where would I get a 100 amp brush controller and a 36 volt battery capable of 100 amp discharge.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-1500W-Direct-Drive-REAR-700C-Hub-Motor-with-Controller-ebikeling-/142471420955?hash=item212bf55c1b:gZMAAOSwM5RZi4Te

Also I would like to know if this is for real or too good to be true. I would need a 60 volt controller and a custom 60 volt battery for 40 mph but I would rather have a 40 mph Haro V3 than a 40 mph Huffy dual suspension with two motors.

Please let me know if you can and perhaps I wont need a 1,000 watt front chain drive motor after all. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[DAND214]

http://prntscr.com/gb05zx

I would rather just order this motor for the back with no motor on the front but where would I get a 100 amp brush controller and a 36 volt battery capable of 100 amp discharge.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-1500W-Direct-Drive-REAR-700C-Hub-Motor-with-Controller-ebikeling-/142471420955?hash=item212bf55c1b:gZMAAOSwM5RZi4Te

Also I would like to know if this is for real or too good to be true. I would need a 60 volt controller and a custom 60 volt battery for 40 mph but I would rather have a 40 mph Haro V3 than a 40 mph Huffy dual suspension with two motors.

Please let me know if you can and perhaps I wont need a 1,000 watt front chain drive motor after all. Thanks.

LC out.

Stubborn, Still!
I sure hope you don't hit a pothole or a bump at 40mph. At 40mph with no suspension you might wind up a few inches shorter It's too damn fast for a cheap bike especially if it chain drive with wood mounting. Not that you can't do it and make it but we don't wanna lose this thread. It's been fun to follow an help/criticize you. 30mph is plenty fast even it's illegal, you can't out run the cops,
90% of the time I ride 20 or less. It gets me where I wanna go with no problem. As I have said before I can go a lot faster but don't wanna get busted. Arrested or broken up is no fun. Once you get busted the cops will know to watch for you and might even cause a problem for others. Obviously has caused it before, that is why NY doesn't like Ebikes. Think about that, it's gonna cost money to do it, the right way or the wrong way. In either way it's gonna be a mistake.

In my opinion get a decent bike with suspension and a rear hub motor. A hub motor is so cheap now that you are spending more money with what you are/have built.

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

In my opinion get a decent bike with suspension and a rear hub motor. A hub motor is so cheap now that you are spending more money with what you are/have built.

Dan

yes but noone answered my question on the hub motor I posted. I want to know if it is for real or some scam. The power wires do not look heavy gauge enough to handle 1,500 watts but what do I know.

Also the imperial electric motor for a single rear drive. I do not know where to get a 100 amp brush controller for 36 volts and a 36 volt pack with 100 amp discharge will also be very difficult and cost a lot.

Also I have seen plenty of youtube videos which have motors on the back and front. They seem to handle very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZNN61u3Dvs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D17Bwfd2dLw&t=13s

I really like that fat bike.

I wish someone could please explain to me how these bikes do not spin out and are 10 times more power and torque than what I want to build. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[DrkAngel]

I wish someone could please explain to me how these bikes do not spin out and are 10 times more power and torque than what I want to build. Thanks.

LC out.

WOT do you know!
Obviously you are not considering the factor of skill.
As in all motorsports, the judicious application of throttle is the difference between performance and crash - winners and losers!

 

[Sunder]

Hard to tell in the video with the dragging of the sports bike, but it looked to me he was on the rear wheels.

How many of the 6000w do you think were being transferred to the ground at that point? 2WD bikes are created by those who have little knowledge of physics or are doing it to claim big marketing numbers.

I had a 1000w bike front wheel drive as my first. It really was at the absolute edge of what you could through it. In the dry, you could spin it if you tried going full throttle from start. In the wet, even a small acceleration from a rolling start could have you spinning everywhere.

 

[latecurtis]

Yes I know about that with the front 1,000 watt hub motor on the Schwinn. I snapped the dropouts on the aluminum specialized back when I first got that motor on take off.. Even when racing the throttle needs only a little when first starting out but once it gets rolling then it is ok to fully engage.

I still did not get an opinion on that 1,500 watt rear hub kit. Is it a scam or is it the real deal. Please let me know. I really want to build the Haro instead of a 40 mph dual motor bike right now. It is the comfort and make of the bike. I would rather ride around on a Haro than a dual suspension Huffy.

I need to order a lot of stuff to make a 40 mph dual motor e bike. All I have is one 48V controller and a frame. I will need two motors, one 48V controller, two chains, two wheel sprockets and two freewheel clutches. Also Will need at least one rear 24" wheel as Doug only has one rear wheel and I will need two for the sprockets. I will need two new 6S packs though for either build.

A 40 mph dual chain drive can still happen but don't need to happen right now. I will order a couple parts each month and make it a three or four month project. Maybe even a winter project. I can live with a 35 mph rear hub motor and take a break from dealing with those chains and sprockets for awhile. Please let me know if the 1,500 watt kit is really 1,500 watts and not a scam. Thanks.


LC out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-30V-100A-3000W-Programable-Reversible-DC-Motor-Speed-Controller-PWM-Control-/371521297570?_trksid=p2349526.m2548.l4275

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Imperial-Electric-Permanent-Magnet-DC-Motor-Model-P66LR006-36V-3-6HP-/192280564776?hash=item2cc4d09428:g:XJIAAOSw4TNZleED

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-50V-60A-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-HHO-RC-Controller-12V-24V-48V-3000W-MAX-/301247561012

48 volts fully charged LiPo * 60 amps = 2,880 watts. 3.6 horsepower = 3.6 * 750 = 2,700 watts.

36V = 2,100 rpm. 48V = 2,800 rpm.

It seems to me that these motors are underrated 36V * 100 amps = 3,600 watts however the motor is rated at 3.6 HP which only = 2,700 watts therefore it seems like the 60 amp controller should work perfect and the motor should not burn out at 48 volts as the current going to the motor is 2,800 watts which is only 180 watts greater than 2,700 watts which is 3.6 HP.

The 100 amp controller however is more money but guaranteed 2400 watts at 24V and stable vs a 2,700 watt maybe.
The big question with that is with 24V Lipo will the motor draw 1,800 watts or 2,400 watts as at 36 volts 3.6 * 750 = 2,700 but at 24 volts 2,700W / 3 is 900. 2,700 - 900 = 1,800 watts@ 24V.

And there you have it folks. 40 mph gearing with a 26" wheel. A single freewheel clutch with a 54 tooth sprocket and 8 mm chain for a rear wheel chain drive.

Only one big problem. The motor shaft ????? What 10 tooth 8mm sprocket will bolt to it. What sprocket period will bolt to it ???? Also when it is all together would the 60 amp controller limit the input current to 60 amps or will the 100 amp motor try to pull 100 amps thru the 60 amp controller and sparks and smoke !!!!!!. Please let me know before I spend my $$$$$$$

 

[latecurtis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpVnFUgjYnw&feature=youtu.be

The packs will not even charge like that. I am getting 0 amps to all cells in the pack and as the video shows all the cells except the unstable one are stuck at 4.0 or 3.99V.

I guess I have no choice but to open the cash box and find the bad cell. There are two 8.0 - 6S LiPo packs hooked together in parallel so it is possible that one of them is still good but not sure what to do with it if it is as running a single 8.0 - 6S pack by itself is asking for trouble as it will always be ran low.

I do not know if combining it with the 10.0 - 6S pack would be a good decision either. Could someone please let me know. Thanks.

LC out.

Well it looks like both packs have a bad cell but it could be because I hooked them in parallel. As I remember when I first got them I accidentally ran one of the packs down to under 3V. It was before I combined them to make a 16.0 pack.
However I did get quite a few miles out of it. I have both on separate balance's and when they are done a few hours from now I will remove each pack and inspect for a puffed up cell.

I will also see which one seems to balance better than the other but am not bringing them back inside until I check both of them out. If one is good it can be used for Wall-Mart trips and perhaps Price chopper. I just used google maps to calculate distance and I believe that the 8.0 pack should be capable of about 3 miles round trip. The 10.0 pack should be able to do about 5 miles.

Should I combine them or not? Please let me know. Those 18650 cells are starting to look better and better but am not sure about the BMS unless I get the 36V pack which has it. However for 48V I would have to order one of those kits and hook up a BMS myself.

Also is there any way to build a pack using 18650 cells that I could charge with my LiPo charger ? I have two LiPo chargers for 6S LiPo. I hate to have to order more chargers when I already own two. Please let me know.

LC out.

 

[Sunder]

1. The "bad" cell is the one that is 4.2 when the rest is 3.9o. The small variances are normal. You need to leave that pack on balance charge, not normal charge.

It will drain the 4.20 to 4.19 then charge up the whole pack for a few seconds. Then rinse and repeat until they are all equal.

Depending on why this cell was high, this might or might not be an issue.

2. Nobody wants to tell you a motor is good, because we haven't seen it. There is no reason why a 3kw motor can't fit in that case, but inside the case it could be packed with thin laminations and high density copper windings and it could be a damn good one. Or it could have a tiny stator, thick laminations, and just a couple winds around each armateur, and it'll melt on your first hill.

You have to take that risk. It's possible you will get what you pay gor, or its possible you wont.

 

[latecurtis]

Yes. That makes sense. $160 don't seem like a lot of $$$ but when on a limited income it is. I trust the imperial electric 3.6 HP - 2100 RPM 36V chain drive motor more than the 1,500 watt hub motor. It is the 100 amp and the 60 amp brush controllers I question and definitely the motor shaft. I have not a clue what motor sprockets will fit.

Right now the packs are still on the balancers and will be for a few hours. I will see about charging them when the cells are closer. Hopefully one of the packs are still good and I can use for the short trips.
As far as how I have been charging all my packs, I always balance charge.

The pack which is bad will be my first LiPo shoot. :lol: :lol: I still have the puffed up 10.0 pack out in the dryer. i also have my co2 pellet pistol with plenty of ammunition in my dresser drawer. :lol: :lol: Thanks.



The packs are still on the balancers. Down to 4.14 from 4.29 volts. Cant tell yet if both have a bad cell or only one. I am thinking about running both packs down to around 3.6 volts per cell then try balance charging them. What I am NOT understanding is why would I balance charge them at 10 or 5 amps. When balance charging I thought they would balance evenly at 2 or 3 amps. I do not trust charging a pack with such an unstable cell in the house. I hope at least one is good. they were in parallel for a very long time so it will be hard to tell unless I run them separate I think. please post when you can.

LC out.

 

[DrkAngel]

1 "bad" or "poor" cell does not make a pack "bad"!
It offers the opportunity for rebuild-repair.

Just remove the bad cell ...
Remove 2 bad or poor cell from 2 6s packs to make an effective 10s 36V LiPo.
Tack an additional, lower capacity, cell onto a weak cell to "pump it up" to full capacity.

Most importantly, test new pack for matched cells and with no self-discharge!

 

[latecurtis]

Just remove the bad cell ...
Remove 2 bad or poor cell from 2 6s packs to make an effective 10s 36V LiPo.
Tack an additional, lower capacity, cell onto a weak cell to "pump it up" to full capacity.

I have never done anything like that before. I will watch a couple videos but am very inexperienced doing anything of that sort. I still have the 10.0 pack with the puffed up cell outside.
Also what about balancing ? There will still be a 6S plug on the pack. I do not believe the charger will balance charge but if the balancer will work without a new 5S plug and will balance the 5 good cells with the 6S plug I could bulk charge with the charger if I play around with it to find the five S - setting. Please let me know.

I can still shoot the bad cells and have my LiPo shoot and finally have a good 10S 36V option for all five of my e bikes.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

I watched the video and it looked like a disaster waiting to happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbZI5QOK9F0&t=499s

No way I would use such a sharp instrument that close to one of those potential fireballs. It looks like Hell unleashed in your hand with one wrong move. :lol:
I would rather shoot the pack from a good 30 feet away as there is no chance of getting first or second degree burns.

As of now after two days on the balancer and two times balance charging I have the packs close to 4.0 volts per cell.

I was going to run one of them last night but did not make the same mistake again. (reverse polarity) I have carefully hooked every controller I own so that the positive wire coming OUT from the controllers is female and any positive plug coming from any LiPo pack must be a male NOT a female. This is for all controllers variable or Chinese that use thumb throttles.

These packs I screwed up on when I switched to bullets as they came with yellow plugs. When I combined them into a 16.0 pack I made sure the positive was male and negative female. i will now make these work by using the extra bullets Dan sent. I will not need to solder but just do a real good tape job as these packs don't look like they will last long anyway. They will be good for short trips about 2 miles total.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugm7j08EUfY&feature=youtu.be

I do not recommend using tape without soldering for anything permanent, however if you do not have access to a soldering iron or solder it will work like this for awhile. Obviously if you tug on both ends it will come apart but if you don"t
it will do the trick. However I do not recommend electrical tape. It tends to stretch then come unraveled.

Gorilla tape is much more sticker and even when wet resists coming unraveled. It is also not too difficult to take off. Find the end and it will come off in one strip. Electrical tape tends to tear and will not come off in one strip but will come off in many pieces and create a headache. I start about 1/2 inch up on the insulation and end 1/2 inch on the other side then repeat starting on the side I ended on with the first strip of tape. I wrap tight and squeeze down as I am wrapping as the video shows.

Also the bottom picture shows what it should look like BEFORE wrapping with the thin strips of gorilla tape. The wires should be wrapped around each other several times and tight and about 1-1/4 inches long minimum. You would need to tug rather hard to separate these wires when taped. Obviously soldering will work better and last longer and is how I do all the wires on my controllers but this just has to last a little while.

I shall be running each pack separate down to about 3.6 volts per cell . I may need to recharge them outside though as the bad cell seems to spike very high over 4.3 volts when balance charging. These packs are a headache. Hopefully only one has a bad cell and the other appears bad as they were in parallel for so long. I should know after I run them and attempt to recharge. Thanks.

LC out.

I Wonder what would happen if I ran those in series to the Imperial electric 2,700 watt motor ? If they survive that for about 5 minutes at full throttle without a LiPo Fire then Just recharge them and try it again. Maybe use a 4.8 HP winch motor for the next run. Or the FX motor at 44V. :lol:

Why not ? As long as I don't bring them in the house my front porch is concrete and steel so all they can do is a lot of smoke. As far as on the bike though the cash box has to go on a rear metal rack. If or when it happens I can simply stop the bike and cut each wire positive then negative going to the controller in case the wires catch fire. Just need a handy on-board tool box with the wire snips in it.Also a good dust mask so I don't breath in any smoke. Do they make a small fire extinguisher for LiPo batteries on electric scooters or e bikes ?

Perhaps I could take it a step further and win the Guinness book of world records for the most LiPo Fires on an e bike. :lol: :lol: :lol: Doug has a bike with an all chrome rack perfect to not catch the bike on fire. I will be looking for a new cash box tomorrow. Do you think the puffed up pack in the dryer will charge. OH HELL NO I AM SHOOTING THAT. I want to see a LiPo fire for myself that way when it happens awhile charging and riding I will know what to expect. With the Lipo bags and a cash box the fire hazard is at 0% However a potentially fatal hazard still exists. The smoke. I am sure just breathing in a little of that could be fatal for sure. Curtins. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor should Turn but the chain drives LC will never learn. 30 mph and 40 mph ?

The 20" dual motor cargo bike. Yea that one the one that nobody here on this post wants to talk about as it actually was proven to work in videos and LC built it and everyone had negative propaganda except for LC.

Sounds like LC may know what he is doing so the entire success story was swept under the rug as they say. Everybody kind of clammed up about it when a bike with under $500 worth of parts took a hill faster than many factory bikes worth about three or more times as much.

It is interesting how it works with a 24V Unite 500 watt motor for the rear paired with a 800 watt 36V front motor. It is very interesting indeed. Another thing interesting is the three Huffy dual suspension frames on my back porch.

It even gets more interesting when you think how the 20" dual motor cargo bike could work with a 500 watt 24 volt front motor instead of the 800 watt 36 volt motor running at 533 watts. Only 33 watts difference. The rear motor is 500 watts and 24 volts and 2.500 rpm. It runs a 80 tooth #25 freewheel sprocket and 11 tooth #25 motor sprocket for approx. 20 mph gearing @24V is only 1 mph difference from the front 36 volt motor running a 56 tooth spoke sprocket with #420 chain.

I think that instead of spending money on a used Imperial electric motor and hoping a 10 tooth motor sprocket will fall out of the sky which will work has a better chance to FAIL on a 40 mph build. What will work however is to remove the 800 watt 36 volt motor from the 20" cargo HUSH HUSH bike and replace with the EXACT 24V motor that is on the rear for the front with a 20" rear wheel and 80T #25 freewheel sprocket.

I will need to order two motors. One 24V 500 watt unite like is on the back of the 20" cargo bike and a second 36V 800 watt that is on the front. The 20" cargo bike will run the two 24V 500 watt motors at 24V or 36V as I have two 36V controllers so it will be geared for 20 or 30 mph and climb any hill in town at 36V with that gearing.

Also in overall performance it shall put any mid drive gear shifting bike to shame as two motors vs one and two wheels turning are better than one with fancy gears. I am not impressed with motors hooked to derailleurs or a motor in the triangle frame. My dual motor bikes will take them on up hill or on the flat with straight acceleration.

Since I already own one 48 volt controller I will only have to order a second. The two 36V 800 watt motors will find a home on one of my dual suspension Huffy bikes front and rear sporting the freewheel clutches and 54 tooth 8mm sprockets and chain for a nice smooth and efficient 40 mph e bike cruiser powered by 12S LiPo :lol: No pedal chain or crank included with 20" wheels on a 26" dual suspension frame.

If the police don't like it then they can try and catch me if they can. i'll be the gingerbread man.

 

[Sunder]

If the police don't like it then they can try and catch me if they can. i'll be the gingerbread man.

Like this? Two broken legs and a broken skull?