Nine Continents 2806 @ 44.4v lipo question

[theRealFury]

Hello,

Im looking at the Nine Continents 2806 front hub with 35amp controller from Ebikes.ca and wanting to run it on 12s lipo @ 44.4v. I have been looking at the ebike simulator and trying to work out what kind of speed i could hope to get out of it.

I have tried using the ebike simulator on the site and selecting random 48v batteries to try and get a close result but call me dumb but i cant read the damn graphs so im not sure what im looking at exactly.

So my question is, what top speed could i hope to get out of this motor running on the 35amp controller with 4 x 6s 8000mah lipo for 44.4v @ 16ah. If anyone has this setup what speed do you get on the flat with little wind, im not interested in no load speed which i have a gut feeling is what the graphs are trying to tell me. bike and rider will weigh about 270lb if that will help.

Thanks to anyone that can answer this question, or perhaps explain what the peaks and troughs on the graphs mean in relation to what i can actually expect the ebike to do?

 

[torker]

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...3dGd6OGlXNmtrNUE&hl=en&authkey=CMCZsLkB#gid=1

I hope that motor wind is on here. This graphs real on road speeds reported by people and the simulator is no load speed , usually about 5 mph. faster so it is a challenge. My 2806 in a 20 inch wheel ran 18 mph. @36v and 24 mph. @ 48v

A 2806 is a 10x6 on this page

 

[theRealFury]

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...3dGd6OGlXNmtrNUE&hl=en&authkey=CMCZsLkB#gid=1

I hope that motor wind is on here. This graphs real on road speeds reported by people and the simulator is no load speed , usually about 5 mph. faster so it is a challenge. My 2806 in a 20 inch wheel ran 18 mph. @36v and 24 mph. @ 48v

A 2806 is a 10x6 on this page

Perfect, just what i was looking for. thanks alot Torker. Much easier to read than the graphs. So 27-30mph looks like the max in a 26inch rim (which i will be using). Just one question, the max grade (for my kind of setup it states 18%) is that assisted or is that power only do you know?

Thanks again

 

[torker]

I'm not sure about that figure. Seems pretty steep. I'm sure there is some math involved with that figure. A 2806 is a fast find and in a 26 inch wheel and 200 lb. rider I would not expect it to climb very well unless you can hit the hill with some speed and it is a fairly short hill.

 

[theRealFury]

I'm not sure about that figure. Seems pretty steep. I'm sure there is some math involved with that figure. A 2806 is a fast find and in a 26 inch wheel and 200 lb. rider I would not expect it to climb very well unless you can hit the hill with some speed and it is a fairly short hill.

Cool, thanks again for the help.

 

[torker]

I should also add that the sim seems pretty close subtracting 5 mph. at 20 to 25 mph. Once above that you would have to start taking more speed off for wind. Search Dogmans threads for "Hubmotor meltdown" and you will get a good idea. Direct drive motors really start to build a lot of heat once you start to drop below their sweet spot. They are not happy "lugging" below max rpm.

 

[El_Steak]

Good choice for the 2806 with 12s Lipo @ 35 amps. Using an Hyperion 1420 charger with Gary's harness, you'll get a very easy to use setup that is stealthy, light and plenty fast.

On previous bikes, I've run a 2806 in both a 26" and 700c wheel with a 35 amps controller from ebike.ca and was able to easily climb any of the (fairly) steep hills in my area. I was running a Ping 48V LiFePo which has a nominal voltage a bit higher than 12s LiPo, but would sag pretty low under a 35 amps load.

Unless you live in the rockies or plan to climb a lot of hills at slow speed in off-road trails, I don't think you'll have any problem with that setup. Just remember that with a fast-wound motor, the faster you go up the hill, the easier it is on the controller. You don't want to spend your time doing stop and go in the middle of a steep hill.

BTW, if I remember correctly, my top speeds were about 33 mph in the 700C wheel and 30 mph in the 26" wheel. I was weighting around 175 at the time (154 now )

 

[theRealFury]

I should also add that the sim seems pretty close subtracting 5 mph. at 20 to 25 mph. Once above that you would have to start taking more speed off for wind. Search Dogmans threads for "Hubmotor meltdown" and you will get a good idea. Direct drive motors really start to build a lot of heat once you start to drop below their sweet spot. They are not happy "lugging" below max rpm.

Thanks for the info, ill take a look at that thread

Good choice for the 2806 with 12s Lipo @ 35 amps. Using an Hyperion 1420 charger with Gary's harness, you'll get a very easy to use setup that is stealthy, light and plenty fast.

On previous bikes, I've run a 2806 in both a 26" and 700c wheel with a 35 amps controller from ebike.ca and was able to easily climb any of the (fairly) steep hills in my area. I was running a Ping 48V LiFePo which has a nominal voltage a bit higher than 12s LiPo, but would sag pretty low under a 35 amps load.

Unless you live in the rockies or plan to climb a lot of hills at slow speed in off-road trails, I don't think you'll have any problem with that setup. Just remember that with a fast-wound motor, the faster you go up the hill, the easier it is on the controller. You don't want to spend your time doing stop and go in the middle of a steep hill.

BTW, if I remember correctly, my top speeds were about 33 mph in the 700C wheel and 30 mph in the 26" wheel. I was weighting around 175 at the time (154 now )

right ok, well luckily most of the hills arround where i go are in the 5-10% grade and the few that are steeper 20%+ are only short. Im also looking for something that will fall into the 22-27mph bracket on the flats as boyond this speed i cant really pedal to assist because of cadence on my bike. I do like to pedal both for my own excersise and to not look too obvious when in the beedy eyes of the plod. Might be able to get away with a 2807 wind in that case which would help that little more on the inclines i believe.

 

[El_Steak]

I do like to pedal both for my own excersise and to not look too obvious when in the beedy eyes of the plod. Might be able to get away with a 2807 wind in that case which would help that little more on the inclines i believe.

I wouldn't go with the 2807 with that voltage. Yes it will be a bit easier on the motor and controller if you want to climb really steep hills at slow speeds, but that's about the only advantage you'll get. The 2806 will be more fun, you'll get a higher top speed which you can choose to use or not (that why you have a throttle!). Heck, with a beefier controller, I would even go with a 2805 at that voltage.

 

[theRealFury]

I do like to pedal both for my own excersise and to not look too obvious when in the beedy eyes of the plod. Might be able to get away with a 2807 wind in that case which would help that little more on the inclines i believe.

I wouldn't go with the 2807 with that voltage. Yes it will be a bit easier on the motor and controller if you want to climb really steep hills at slow speeds, but that's about the only advantage you'll get. The 2806 will be more fun, you'll get a higher top speed which you can choose to use or not (that why you have a throttle!). Heck, with a beefier controller, I would even go with a 2805 at that voltage.

haha, dont tempt me with a 2805... looked at that first then had to talk myself out of it because i cant see any reason to have a top speed of over 30mph as in the UK that would just be asking for trouble if i used it and if i never used it then its just a waste i guess :S, in light of your comments then i think i might just stay with the 2806 as i originally decided on thanks for the info

 

[El_Steak]

i think i might just stay with the 2806 as i originally decided on thanks for the info

I don't think you'll regret it, its a very balanced setup. One thing for sure is that you'll see a big difference from your current 36V / 25A setup.

BTW, if you are ordering a new kit from ebikes.ca, I would really consider the 40A controller option instead of the 35A. Its just 25$ more, will give you a bit more power for acceleration / hill climbing and uses much better mosfets (IRFB4110). For your 12s2p Lipo pack, a 40A load is nothing. Cycle analyst is also a must-have. In addition to all its speed / power metering features, it can let you hard-limit your top speed and/or current should you choose to.

 

[dogman dan]

For dang sure, once you go lipo you can stop using weak controllers. Fast motors are nice, but give me slower winds for any real hills. 8x8 and 18s would rock the hills and have speed.

 

[Alan B]

Hello,

Im looking at the Nine Continents 2806 front hub with 35amp controller from Ebikes.ca and wanting to run it on 12s lipo @ 44.4v. I have been looking at the ebike simulator and trying to work out what kind of speed i could hope to get out of it.
...

Just to add a relevant data point, I have 2807 w 12S Turnigy and it makes about 28 mph on the level using 35A controller. The 2806 should be faster. Weights etc are similar, mine is rear hub. Details in my thread linked from my sig.

I'm actually planning to go to 2810 wind with 18S to reduce the current. Expect I'll get better efficiency and hill climbing as well and about the same top speed.

 

[dogman dan]

2810 with 20 amps of 18s lipo goes about 30 mph. I need to try an 8x8, but the free motor gravytrain is over.

 

[torker]

Hello,

Im looking at the Nine Continents 2806 front hub with 35amp controller from Ebikes.ca and wanting to run it on 12s lipo @ 44.4v. I have been looking at the ebike simulator and trying to work out what kind of speed i could hope to get out of it.
...

Just to add a relevant data point, I have 2807 w 12S Turnigy and it makes about 28 mph on the level using 35A controller. The 2806 should be faster. Weights etc are similar, mine is rear hub. Details in my thread linked from my sig.

I'm actually planning to go to 2810 wind with 18S to reduce the current. Expect I'll get better efficiency and hill climbing as well and about the same top speed.

You'll love a 6x10 on 18s All I did was beef the shunt on mine and on 15s it wants to lift the front end at anything under 10 mph or so.

 

[Alan B]

2810 with 20 amps of 18s lipo goes about 30 mph. I need to try an 8x8, but the free motor gravytrain is over.

2WD 8x8's in the deathrace? Would that be fair??

 

[zombiess]

Hello,

Im looking at the Nine Continents 2806 front hub with 35amp controller from Ebikes.ca and wanting to run it on 12s lipo @ 44.4v. I have been looking at the ebike simulator and trying to work out what kind of speed i could hope to get out of it.

I have tried using the ebike simulator on the site and selecting random 48v batteries to try and get a close result but call me dumb but i cant read the damn graphs so im not sure what im looking at exactly.

So my question is, what top speed could i hope to get out of this motor running on the 35amp controller with 4 x 6s 8000mah lipo for 44.4v @ 16ah. If anyone has this setup what speed do you get on the flat with little wind, im not interested in no load speed which i have a gut feeling is what the graphs are trying to tell me. bike and rider will weigh about 270lb if that will help.

Thanks to anyone that can answer this question, or perhaps explain what the peaks and troughs on the graphs mean in relation to what i can actually expect the ebike to do?

I actually have an almost identical setup to what you just described. 44.4V 15Ah LiPo setup with a 35A controller. Bike + rider = 255lbs. Freshly charged 49.6V no load = 30mph some pedaling with a 26 wheel that has a smaller tire than the original one. After the battery is over 50% discharged it tops out around 26mph. I rode 18 miles today and used 9.8Ah from the pack with an average speed of 17.5mph and 25.6 wh/mile with a lot of stop and go. I rode with very little pedaling because I was testing consumption at lower speeds and kept my trip max to around 22mph. All flat riding, all grades are 1-2%.

This setup is a lot of fun and has good range if you keep out of the throttle as I found out today.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask me. I now have 100 miles on this setup. I'm thinking about going to a 66.6V 20AH setup in a few months unless I sell off the other 6 LiPo packs I have here or build a 2nd bike.

 

[dogman dan]

Re the death race, if it has pedals that work and a motor, it qualifies to run. Two motors would be an advantage since you could then push more watts through em than just one. Winding wise, I still keep looking at simulators and think for that track the 2807 is the right winding. You want your wattage to peak right about 30 mph for that track. For a track built for cars, you might want a 2805, since you'd need power at 45 mph, and a top speed of 60 or so.

 

[Alan B]

...

I actually have an almost identical setup to what you just described. 44.4V 15Ah LiPo setup with a 35A controller. Bike + rider = 255lbs. Freshly charged 49.6V no load = 30mph some pedaling with a 26 wheel that has a smaller tire than the original one. After the battery is over 50% discharged it tops out around 26mph. I rode 18 miles today and used 9.8Ah from the pack with an average speed of 17.5mph and 25.6 wh/mile with a lot of stop and go. I rode with very little pedaling because I was testing consumption at lower speeds and kept my trip max to around 22mph. All flat riding, all grades are 1-2%.

This setup is a lot of fun and has good range if you keep out of the throttle as I found out today.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask me. I now have 100 miles on this setup. I'm thinking about going to a 66.6V 20AH setup in a few months unless I sell off the other 6 LiPo packs I have here or build a 2nd bike.

Which motor was this?

 

[Alan B]

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...3dGd6OGlXNmtrNUE&hl=en&authkey=CMCZsLkB#gid=1

I hope that motor wind is on here. This graphs real on road speeds reported by people and the simulator is no load speed , usually about 5 mph. faster so it is a challenge. My 2806 in a 20 inch wheel ran 18 mph. @36v and 24 mph. @ 48v

A 2806 is a 10x6 on this page

Perfect, just what i was looking for. thanks alot Torker. Much easier to read than the graphs. So 27-30mph looks like the max in a 26inch rim (which i will be using). Just one question, the max grade (for my kind of setup it states 18%) is that assisted or is that power only do you know?

Thanks again

Hi. That's my spreadsheet! The Max Grade is Stalled, so you have to pedal, but it is really easy to pedal, kind of weightless since the motor is doing the real work. That assumes the max current is available for the motor. Which on a 2806 is hard on the controller for very long. Also as things heat up the copper resistance increases and torque and current will drop some. Everything on that chart ratios off the reference data.

 

[theRealFury]

Thanks to you all for the replies and the lashings of info.

I may increase the voltage at a later date but i think my mind is set for now on a 2806 and a 40amp controller running on 44.4v lipo. hopefully the upgraded fets in the 40amp controller from ebikes.ca will help to alleviate some of the stress on the controller when on the inclines. Only one way to find out for sure i guess, at any rate im ok with a soldering iron if it all goes wrong. Just gotta find the cash for it now and talk the missus into not beeing too pi$$ed when she finds out how much its gonna cost

 

[theRealFury]

Hello,

Still trying to make sure i have ironed out all the kinks before i go about ordering stuff but think i may have overlooked a fairly important point. Does the 9C 2806 or 2807 come with front disk brake compatability? I have read somewhere that it does but some sellers claim that it does not? does anyone have a front 9C with a disc mount or know the definitive answer to this? I really dont want to get rid of my Hydraulic disc brakes if its at all possible.

Thanks.

 

[Alan B]

Note that discs on hub motors may have caliper clearance issues as well that need to be checked.