Noob Lipo Dummy (need a Lot of help)

TopCat

TopCat

100 W
Joined
Jun 2, 2010
Messages
225
Location
Central Scotland
Hi Guys,
Im ready to make the jump from heavy sla to lipos but am at a loss as where to start. :oops:
I know there are lots of lipo threads/posts/topics on the forums but reading through these just gets me all confused and makes my head hurt. Volts - Watts - Amps are all greek to me.
This is the motor and controller that I have...
36V 500Watt motor.
500watt.JPG


36V 800W YK31C Electric Scooter LBD14 Controller 038
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/36V-800W-YK31...porting_Goods_Scooters_LE&hash=item255c611b24

It was suggetsted to me on another forum - http://motorbicycling.com/f55/feedback-request-these-blue-lipo-batteries-23402.html that I go with these batteries and charger...

Batteries.
Turnigy 5000mAh 5S 25C Lipo Pack.
T5000-5-25.jpg

Charger.
iCharger 1010B+ 300W 10s Balance/Charger. - Not in stock at moment at hobbyking.
1010Bplus(1).jpg


Reading through a good few of the lipo threads/posts I came across this link - http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-lipo-batteries.html it was here that I read this...

All this said, RC LiPo packs are coming down in price all the time. If you find a 30C pack for the same price as a 20C when that is all you need, go for the 30C pack - it will run cooler and most likely last a little longer. Like most things, pushing a Lipo pack hard close to its limits will wear it out in short order. Having wiggle room on the high side will ensure that won't happen.

Having read this I went looking on hobbycity in the battery section and found these Turnigy 5000mAh 5S 30C Lipo Pack which now leads to more confusion!
Having been recomended that I buy the Turnigy 5000mAh 5S 25C Lipo Pack, then finding the Turnigy 5000mAh 5S 30C Lipo Pack, which one do I buy? remembering that I'd need to buy a few to hook up together for range.

Next up is the wiring?
I'd like to know what type/guage is on these Turnigy batteries, that way when I order the RIGHT batts I can also order up some wire to connect them all together.

Then theres connectors for hooking everthing together. The EC3 connectors mentioned on http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-lipo-batteries.html look like a solid connector but are these the type i'd need to connect all my batts in series to make a 36V pack.

If I havent already got enough to confuse me It was suggested that I goto GGoodrums site - http://www.tppacks.com/products.asp?cat=26 and buy some of his stuff to help make/monitor and charge my pack.
No idea what to buy or what any of those boards do except that there for helping charge your batts.

I have only been used to working with SLA batteries which were relatively simple. Get 3 12V batts and wire them up in series, charge them up with a 36V charger and away we go. Where as with these lipo batteries there seems to be an endless shopping list of things you need to buy to get and keep them working.

Regards
Tom
 
First off, you're only looking to use 500W at 36V nominal (more like 37 to 38V with LiPo) so the current that you're going to be pulling from the cells will be quite modest, around 500 / 37 = 13.5 amps.

If you were to buy 4 off 5S LiPo packs and wired them up as 10S, 2P, then you'd have a 10Ah pack with a voltage of around 37V. 10Ah discharged at 13.5A is a discharge rate of just 1.35C, so trivial in comparison to even the lowest rated LiPo cells.

It's true that higher rate cells are generally likely to last longer if cycled to full depth of discharge frequently, but at this low rate I doubt they'd be a measurable difference.

If it were me, then I'd go for some of the 5000mAh Zippy packs from HK rather than the Turnigy packs, but that's just based on my limited experience. 4 off of the 5S packs will run the bike at 500W for around 40 mins to about 80% discharge, longer if you don't run at full power the whole time.

Jeremy
 
Sounds like you're on the right track so far.
I am using 5s batteries at 37v too. Charging them with the 1010b+ is quite convenient.

Don't bother with ec3 connectors, i went that way the first time because there were pre-made parallel /serial harnesses and i thought that was cool, but lemme tell ya, they can be on the flimsy side if you do a lot of connecting and disconnecting.

Buy a bag or two of the ec4 connectors and some 12ga. wire. Make your own battery interconnects from that. That's good up to about 50a before you start seeing any real voltage drops. 50a is a hell of a lot of power, so you have room to grow there.

You won't need 30c packs at all.. you can get away with 15c. ( many LiFePo4 guys have batteries that only put out 1c-2c and they manage!! ) I buy the 25c turnigy packs now though because they're at the USA warehouse. Zippys from China to USA are very expensive to ship.

Those turnigy batteries have 10ga. wire coming out of them and 24ga. balance lead wires. That is super overkill for an eBike application, but consider that RC guys pull like 4x more amps outta these than we do O_O

Also.. order one extra pack in case you get a bad one. trust me on this one; out of 8 packs i already got one dud.
 
TopCat said:
Thanks Jeremy and Neptronix. Looks like I have the Batteries and Charger sorted out once Hobbyking gets them back in stock.
As to the connectors Neptronix, iv'e searched HK & the net and cant find any refrence to these EC4 connectors that you mention?

Regards
Tom
Click to expand...


Whats wrong with using the same connectors that come standard on the batteries?!

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9283&Product_Name=HXT_4mm_Gold_Connector_w/_Protector_%2810pcs/set%29

You must have seen these in your 'search' of the net and HK

Volts - Watts - Amps are all greek to me.
Click to expand...

If you have read all the info on lipo in the battery section and are still struggling to come to terms with basics, it worries me a little you buying lithium polymer, perhaps lifepo4 would be more suited in this case, a Lifp04 Ping pack would suit yur setup and be alot easier to manage. ;) lithium polymer can be dangerous if you don't have at least some basic knowledge and understanding of their requirements.

KiM
 
AussieJester said:
Whats wrong with using the same connectors that come standard on the batteries?!

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9283&Product_Name=HXT_4mm_Gold_Connector_w/_Protector_%2810pcs/set%29

You must have seen these in your 'search' of the net and HK
Click to expand...

:oops: Those are EXACTLY the connectors i was referring to, but i called them ec4.. thanks for correcting me for the sake of the OP.

AussieJester said:
Volts - Watts - Amps are all greek to me.
Click to expand...

If you have read all the info on lipo in the battery section and are still struggling to come to terms with basics, it worries me a little you buying lithium polymer, perhaps lifepo4 would be more suited in this case, a Lifp04 Ping pack would suit yur setup and be alot easier to manage. ;) lithium polymer can be dangerous if you don't have at least some basic knowledge and understanding of their requirements.
KiM
Click to expand...

Agreed.. if this sort of electrical/electronic talk is greek to you and you don't have a drive to learn about it, you might want to stick to the pingbattery. It offers that 'plug it in and forget about it' kind of functionality. If you are looking for under 25aH, it will only cost you a bit more than a full on LiPo setup and the convenience advantage will be worth it.

but make sure you buy a pack that is suited to the watt rating of your motor / controller combination!!!
 
AussieJester said:
Whats wrong with using the same connectors that come standard on the batteries?!

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9283&Product_Name=HXT_4mm_Gold_Connector_w/_Protector_%2810pcs/set%29

You must have seen these in your 'search' of the net and HK
Click to expand...

neptronix :oops: Those are EXACTLY the connectors i was referring to, but i called them ec4.. thanks for correcting me for the sake of the OP.
Click to expand...

Yes I had seen these type of connectors while searching but as Neptronix called them EC4's I thought he ment something different!
neptronix
Buy a bag or two of the ec4 connectors and some 12ga. wire. Make your own battery interconnects from that. That's good up to about 50a before you start seeing any real voltage drops. 50a is a hell of a lot of power, so you have room to grow there.
Click to expand...

Anyway its all sorted now. Nep made a little mistake in the name, no problem. We all make mistakes thats why they put rubbers/erasers on the end of pencils :)

AussieJester said:
Volts - Watts - Amps are all greek to me.
Click to expand...

If you have read all the info on lipo in the battery section and are still struggling to come to terms with basics, it worries me a little you buying lithium polymer..........
KiM
Click to expand...

Being a noob to all this electrical jargon, I have to start learning at some point. Im more of a hands on/practical person, its when I see stuff like this...
....How about a 20C rating on a 2000 mAh battery? 20 x 2000 = 40,000 milliamps or 40 amps. Time wise, a 40 amp draw on this pack would exhaust it in about 3 minutes (2000/60= 33.3 mA minutes multiplied by 20c = 666 mA per minute - divided into the packs capacity of 2000 mA = 3 minutes). As you can see, that is a pretty short flight and unless you are drawing the maximum power for the entire flight, it is unlikely you would ever come close to those numbers.
Click to expand...
...my head hurts. I was never any good at math.

Dont go worrying Kim, your quite safe from any fires/explosions being as your on the other side of the planet.

As HK doesn't have the charger in stock at the moment so im just going to make up a list of all the stuff I need and order it up after Xmas once the postal congestion has calmed down a bit.

Plus do a lot more reading on lipos.

Regards
Tom
 
Yeah, the math can be confusing, especially when you don't have a full understanding of the terms mentioned in the first place. This was a big barrier for me too. There are a lot of big brains on here who are beyond our level so many times over that it it ludicrous.. but feel free to PM me if you need help setting up the charging system, etc.
 
Jester is right that for noobs, a ping can be much easier to deal with. But as always, it depends on many things.

I see a scooter motor, is this for a scooter? If so, a ping might be a bit bulky and hard to mount compared to the size and shape of the lipos. But if you are running that motor on a 15 amp controller, a 10 ah ping might fit. If this is going on a bike, and you will use a larger controller, you need a larger ping, or you need a battery with a higher discharge rate capability like the lipo. A 36v 20 ah ping is pretty close to being as simple to use as the 3 sla's and just about the same size physically. Plug, charge, ride.

Hunt the site if you go for the HK stuff, and buy what's in stock, and affordable. 15-20c will be fine for that motor. But if higher discharge rate is on sale, fine to get that too. Just don't spend a lot more for c rate you don't need.

Keep reading in the tech reference section for the basics, like paralell vs series, volts x amps = watts etc. If it sunk into my brain, I assure you it can sink into yours. They don't get stupider than when I was a noob. For lipo, see the lipo noob thread links for the threads that helped me a lot.
 
dogman said:
I see a scooter motor, is this for a scooter?
Click to expand...
The motor is on my chopper....

espoiler1.jpg

Link in my sig.

...that im doing up. As you can see theres plenty room for lipo's. I eventually plan on making a batt box like this one...

5200851324_4638206034.jpg
5200851008_a27882e179.jpg


dogman said:
Keep reading in the tech reference section for the basics, like paralell vs series, volts x amps = watts etc. If it sunk into my brain, I assure you it can sink into yours. They don't get stupider than when I was a noob. For lipo, see the lipo noob thread links for the threads that helped me a lot.
Click to expand...

Iv'e already been browsing your sticky - Lipo noob thread links and others, fingers crossed that some of it will eventually sink in :roll:

Today HK got some new stock in so I ordered up...

Icharger 1010b+ - I'll need to get a power supply for this.
2 meter of 12AWG - red. Black is out of stock :roll:
2 packs of HXT 4mm Gold Connectors.

I'll order up some batts - Turnigy 5000mAh 5S 25C Lipo Pack after xmas, once funds allow.
Regards
Tom
 
Ahh, lots of room for battery, but lots of room to expand to faster stuff later if you go lipo. Nothing wrong with that.
 
30c Turnigys might do...I can vouche the last lot of 20C Turnigys dont they have 10AWG
HK lists the bullets on the 25c Turnigys to be 4mm which would fit
10AWG wire would it not? I might be wrong though often am...least i'm
consistent :mrgreen:

KiM
 
Those 4mm connectors do fit 10awg very well.
My 25c batteries do have 10awg on them.

My setup needs like 2c, lol.. but i buy 25c batteries because those are the high-volume ones that sometimes go on sale.
 
neptronix said:
My setup needs like 2c, lol.. but i buy 25c batteries because those are the high-volume ones that sometimes go on sale.
Click to expand...

Not often I get above 250amp but when I do its good to know the batteries can takez it
i use the 20C myself, always cheap have a burst rate of 25c -30C IIRC which is more than needed for my whimpy setup.

KiM
 
250amp?!!?

What kind of hell-beast motor-controller setup draws that kinda juice? :lol:
 
neptronix said:
250amp?!!?

What kind of hell-beast motor-controller setup draws that kinda juice? :lol:
Click to expand...

Castle Controller HV160 on high settings when hooked to Turnigy 80-100 130kv or Astro 3220 motors.

KiM
 
neptronix said:
damn....
how fast can you go?
Click to expand...

Depends on the chain rings/sprockets i run :wink: one of the advantages imo of a non hub drive is being able to change gear ratios at the drop of a hat to suit your needs ;) Currently i have it geared low to tackle the hilly terrain where i live whilst towing my wheelchair behind the bike and thus have it gear limited at ~60km/hr acceleration is outstanding :mrgreen: ...would be well capable of 75-85km/hr maybe more i think if geared for it..(i cant realistically go above 45km/hr with wheelchair in tow as it starts bouncing around and flips on its side, rather scary the first time it happened) I thinkz we should getz back on topic before this thread gets totally derailed /OT discussion my end apologies OP ;)

KiM
 
Kim, just read what you posted about 4mm bullet-connectors, so I had a quick look. I didn't know what connectors came with the battery I ordered because at the time, the info posted was thin. I notice now that "some" of the listings have more information, so I guess "Sum Yung Guy" is typing as fast as he can to update the web-catalogue.

If you are only going to run a single brick of LiPo, get the 30C, but if you will parallel several bricks to get better range, I recommend to get all 25C packs, 10/12AWG wire, 4mm bullets...

edit: heres an alternate wire supplier based in the US that was posted recently:
http://www.rcdude.com/servlet/the-1511/10-AWG-Silicone-wire/Detail

I was interested in the 6S 5000mAh packs, and they now actually do list the 25C pack connectors as 4mm, and they also do verify the 30C connectors AND the 5800 size pack connectors are 5.5mm

(5800/25C = 5.5mm, 5000/30C = 5.5mm,...5000/25C or smaller = 4mm)

edit: if you are ordering these connectors from Hobby King, might as well throw in some Heat-Shrink-Insulation (HSI). The comments section seems to indicate that 6mm HSI (available in black/red) works well to cover the 4mm female bullets.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...tname=Shrink+Tube&idCategory=375&ParentCat=58

TurnigyS-tube_t.jpg
 
Hi Guys,
Been looking into a power supply for the Icharger1010b+ and am wondering would any of these be suitable?

Propeak Power Supply 240>13.8v 20A Auto

o-ip2000.jpg


The ProPeak 13.8v power supply is a high quality switch mode power supply with a particularly smooth output current, making it suitable for use with almost all 12v input chargers available today. Using switch mode technology gives greater efficiency and reduces the weight and size of the power supply compared to older units. The maximum 20 Amp output allows fast charging of even high voltage battery packs.

Technical Data:
• Input voltage range: 190~240v AC
• Output voltage: 13.8v DC regulated
• Current rating: 0~20 Amps
• Output connections: 4mm Banana/Clamp type.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fusion 200W Adjustable Power Supply.

1.66029untitled.jpg


The PS200 Adjustable is a regulated 5~15V power supply with current limiting from 0~15A. With an LCD readout showing the voltage and current being supplied, it can also be used to charge Lead Acid batteries.

Features

* Input Voltage: 220~240V AC
* Output Voltage: 5~15V DC Regulated
* Current Rating: 0~15 Amps
* Output Connections: 4mm Banana Sockets / Clamps.


Regards
Tom
 
Here ya go kim,

http://www2.ripmax.net/item.asp?itemid=O-IP2000&Category=070

Fusion also do a twin Power Supply.
http://www.cmfhobbies.com/Chargers-and-Power-Supplies/Power-Supply/C46-41-1-0.htm

Iv'e also seen a few on ebay.

Here's another...

o-ip2002.jpg

The new ProPeak dual output 13.8v power supply is a high quality switch mode power supply with a particularly smooth output current, making it suitable for use with almost all 12v input chargers available today. The dual outputs allow easy connection of two chargers, to take advantage of the exceptionally high maximum current of 20 Amps, and the LCD readout gives at a glance an exact reading of the current being supplied by the power supply.

Technical Data:
• Input voltage range: 190~240v AC
• Output voltage: 13.8v DC regulated
• Current rating: 0~20 Amps
• Output connections: Twin 4mm Banana/Clamp type
• LCD Amperage readout

http://www.rcmodelcentre.co.uk/Power-Supply-20A-13-8V-Twin-Output/prod_6088.html

Regards
Tom
 
Cheers bookmarked ...GGoodrum has just done a review on the new Hyperion 1420i chargers, much better than the Icharger your buying IMO and he is doing a 25 dollar discount for ES members on them on his website tppacks.com so $US180-25 bucks= $155 If you want to charge your lipos fast and safely he has a full easy to follow write up on it
in this section of the forum. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23362 I will be using this exact setup on my new bike... Meanwels are ~50 bucks off ebay new to power the Hyperion, you want safe and fast bulk Lipo charging/balancing theres your answer..

KiM
 
Sadly Iv'e already ordered/bought the Icharger101b+ from HK :roll: so i'll make do with that for the time being. Further funds are now going into a power supply - batteries more wire and anything else i'll need to keep an eye on my batts while I ride.

I still have a lot I could be getting on with but with 2ft of snow covering everything in my area...well :(

Any news on your missing seat Kim?

Regards
Tom
 
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