Sea Otter Classic Offroad E-bike Race

[motomoto]

I checked this out the other day but decided it would be bogus because it was limited to 350 watts (checked at race end) and
only for pedal assist to 20 MPH. Then I saw that is was sponsored by Bosch. Figures.

http://www.seaotterclassic.com/index.cfm/competitive_events_eMTB.htm

But then I got to thinking, screw it. Enter the race, show everyone what real fun is (3kW+)
and just go have a great time.

I was going to suggest they have a class for non Bosch setups including hub motors and other mid drives.

I think that they should allow only bicycle tires as the line starts to blur at some point.

Let's get a bunch of people to enter and make an 'Outlaw' class. It would be rad.

We have till next April to get a bike ready and it's an hour long race.

 

[recumpence]

I checked this out the other day but decided it would be bogus because it was limited to 350 watts (checked at race end) and
only for pedal assist to 20 MPH. Then I saw that is was sponsored by Bosch. Figures.

http://www.seaotterclassic.com/index.cfm/competitive_events_eMTB.htm

But then I got to thinking, screw it. Enter the race, show everyone what real fun is (3kW+)
and just go have a great time.

I was going to suggest they have a class for non Bosch setups including hub motors and other mid drives.

I think that they should allow only bicycle tires as the line starts to blur at some point.

Let's get a bunch of people to enter and make an 'Outlaw' class. It would be rad.

We have till next April to get a bike ready and it's an hour long race.

30kw plus.......

 

[Voltron]

I think the point is to make it more like a one design race, where riding technique and power management trumps raw power, and leads to some nice close racing, and the conditioning of the human riding it is still a factor.. otherwise it turns into the guy with the biggest budget winning most of the time. Plus, having a bunch of people who are on the fence about trail access seeing high power bikes ripping the track apart in a few quick laps isn't going to help with trail closures to ebikes.

 

[WoodlandHills]

If the intent is to spur technological advancement you have an open design class with no rules: anything goes and may the best bike win. If you want to spur rider fitness you have a frozen one design class and everyone competes on the same obsolete equipment.

Obviously Bosch has a vested interest in slowing the rate at which they are being left behind technologically and keeping better equipment from the public eye would help in that effort. After all if the general public knew how much more performance and range is available from other sources Bosch sales would plummet..... Oh wait, their sales never really took off here anyway!

 

[Voltron]

I'm not sure what the intent is... but I doubt its to spur light electric motorcycle development. But it doesn't sound like its frozen, just power limited, which can spur its own kind of development i.e high efficiency motors, high density lightweight powerpacks, and effective regen, just like it has in F1 type racing. I know its heresy here in the hotbed of do-it yourselferism, but maybe most of the general population doesn't need crazy high power light motorcycles, just reliable quiet user friendly actual bike like feel. Plus, there are other venues where that type of development IS the intent, like the Isle of Man TT racing. And most open class racing usually turns into an arms race that moves the budgets out of the zone of weekend tinkerers, as happened in sailboat and windsurfer racing. Great for deep pockets, but discouraging for most that just want some pleasant close racing that the average guy can actually beat a pro by racing smarter.
Also, I don't where your here is, but Bosch sales at the shop I work at are booming.... and is the general public really ready for dealing with programming Sevcons and Castle controllers and maintaining lipo packs? I'm totally not saying those are bad things to have... just that the normal bike rider maybe thinking of going electric doesn't necessarily want a 20,00+ watt ripper.

 

[liveforphysics]

Im game, its a local race for me.

 

[WoodlandHills]

I agree that the public are not into science projects, but in my case, it was no more difficult bolting a Bafang BBSHD onto the bike than it was assembling the bike when it arrived in the mail. Everything was plug and play and I end up with 1000 watts continuous and 1500 watts burst for $1500 including the bicycle with a 20ah battery that is good for over 35 miles in the hills. This is NOT a motorcycle, nor is it a bicycle, but rather something in between that is very easy to assemble by any clerk in the bike dept of Walmart, much less a tech at a LBS. With the BBSHD the Bafang mid-drive is a mature product no longer relegated to the experimenter type hobbyist.

Using an arbitrary power limit set by EU bureaucrats to make a German manufacturers wimpy low range overpriced products appear to be State of the Art will do nothing to promote eBiking in the general public, and in fact may set the movement back a bit by making people think 350 watts is all the choice one has.

Certainly had the eBike race not been purchased by Bosch as a Product Showcase other options would have been entered and the general public would have seen that there is a lot more performance available for a whole lot less money.

 

[motomoto]

I will write them a nice email explaining the variety of electric bikes that people would like to enter the event with
and see if we can get them to not kick us out for not having a pedelec 350 watt system. At this point that is all they will allow.

 

[The fingers]

I will write them a nice email explaining the variety of electric bikes that people would like to enter the event with
and see if we can get them to not kick us out for not having a pedelec 350 watt system. At this point that is all they will allow.

About as fun to participate in or to watch as an unlimited tortoise race. The hare feels left out. :lol:

 

[PaulD]

I'm not sure what the intent is... but I doubt its to spur light electric motorcycle development. But it doesn't sound like its frozen, just power limited, which can spur its own kind of development i.e high efficiency motors, high density lightweight powerpacks, and effective regen, just like it has in F1 type racing.

I'm with Voltron. Sounds like it will be a good contest of rider, overall system efficiency and weight. I hope the course isn't dumbed down too much and has some technical bits. I think a super steep climb that would be a run-up in a normal MTB race would be a great way to showcase the technology. Count me in

 

[dogman dan]

The point of the race is to sell USA mtb riders on the Bosch mid drive bikes that are hitting the showroom big time next year.

The assisted race will test rider skill, rather than the riders EPO doc. Those of us that ride dirt a lot know that it can get quite challenging up hill, just like bombing a downhill. But different, since the front wheel won't dig like on a downhill. Normally uphill is just a cardio fest, not demanding rider skill. An off road e bike race could actually be quite demanding since they'll be booking ass up and down the hills. The whole circuit at much higher speeds than normal, no relaxing and just grinding up the hills.

FWIW, the Bosch was the nicest mid drive I rode at interbike, but I didn't test the shimano steps because the line was crazy long for it. It was the only pedelec bike I rode that did not suck. I just loath pedelec, sooo... one I liked says a lot! Clearly a smarter setup than the usual jerky on and off pedelec.

 

[Voltron]

The STEPS is pleasant.. A little louder than the Bosch, but also really speed limited. The one I think will really open it up is the Yamaha unit. It's coming on the Haibike off-road models down in the $2600 range, on a bike with some nice components. The price point is going to have lots of brands scrambling to catch up....including Bosch. And a big plus of the Yamaha is normal double chainring up front...lots easier to customise gearing.

 

[LockH]

... and now a news item in local newspaper Monterey County Herald. 8)

"Cycling’s Sea Otter Classic to offer new events — including electric bikes"
http://www.montereyherald.com/sport...fer-new-events-x2014-including-electric-bikes

In part:

The addition of electric bikes has met resistance. “Motorized doping” is the odd phrase used for cycling’s recent dilemma — pro athletes using mini hidden motors for assistance, including at the world championship level. But with e-bike manufacturers Bosch and Haibike offering sponsorship, a one-hour timed “e-MTB” event is scheduled Friday in numerous divisions.

Some cycling purists disdain the idea and have offered protests on cycling forums. But the response has primarily been positive. More than 100 participants will pedal the battery-powered machines. Athletes’ bikes will be inspected before and after races for proper battery wattage. Presenting sponsors will have bikes available for competitors.

“It’s just folks being folks, and change is hard for some people to embrace,” said race director Jeff Frost, in his 18th year at the Sea Otter Classic. “Motorized doping as a purist has made me take pause. But this race is specifically designed for the product.
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“It’s like a NASCAR Craftsman Truck race versus a NASCAR race versus a dirt track race. It’s a specific race designed for a specific application on a specific bike. In that context, it makes sense to me. And in the industry these days the most units selling are e-mountain bikes.”

 

[The fingers]

http://www.kionrightnow.com/news/lo...ebut-for-electric-bikes-at-sea-otter/39086760 :?
New technology is transforming the classic pedal-powered bike. Called electric bikes, they come with an integrated motor and battery.
They cost anywhere between $4,000 and $16,000. For the past several years, they've been available for sale at the Sea Otter Classic. This year, they made their racing debut.
"It's great, 90 registered racers, I believe," one racer said.
Haibike sponsored the race and Bosch sponsored the race route; both companies make Electric Mountain Bikes (eMTBs). The event was a timed race on a 1.5 mile course. Whoever completed the most laps in an hour won. The rule was that racers could only go up to 20 miles per hour of assist.
But not everyone loved the idea. Originally designed for consumer/commuter use, some are concerned about their role in racing.
"They're alright, but I feel it's a little lazy," Greg Fogg said.
On the other hand, E-bikes open the door for more people to get into cycling.
After the race, there was plenty of chatter on both sides of the debate. Several people voiced their concerns about E-bike use on trails, saying E-bikes blur the line between power vehicles.
"The ability to accelerate and force skids and braking to manage that speed only aids in the damage of the trail," Mondo Aquilera said.
The senior engineer of Haibike said E-bikes are much more common in Europe, but said Americans are warming up to the idea.
"The U.S. market is a little behind Europe, especially Germany, but we also see the amount is growing," Haibike Senior Engineer Ingo Beutner said. "I think people have to try it."
While the biking community seems to be embracing the new technology, more popularity could mean a call for regulation.

 

[rider95]

The biking community is not embracing the e bike lol ahh nooo just go over to MTB forms they have a e bike section all e bikes are 10,000 w killing running over ppl machines and there is no diff between 750w and 10000w and we all ride motorcycles